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Do You Believe In Transsexualism?

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posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


That is one of life's beautys the innocence of children... They tell the truth... If you see a man in a supoermarket that doesn't pass then the chances are they are early transition or are past the point of being able to pass and for those people it is really hard. If I walked past you you would be hard pushed to tell.

The reality of transexualism is children and younger adolescents are being treat sooner so they fit in better. and some of them will never have to tell there partners ever!.. Take Kim Petras

www.susans.org...

If you can tell me that isn't a pretty girl then Im lost.

XY XX it's like the branding of a pair of trainers.... buy some £5 trainers and stick a NIKE tick on it does it make those trainers NIKE?

The media have a lot to answer for and the way in which transexual people are portrayed. If it wasn't for Girls making it through to the other side then a lot of children today would not be getting the support they deserve.

A point I would like to make is a FTM transexual will have a lot of secondary sexual characteristics that will help them fit in. Masculinity is very hard to hide add testosterone to a female and remove the estrogen believe me they are all man.

I keep hearing the art of passing in the media and on transexual websites.... I dont need to pass I am female 100%

Scientists have located the gene that determines wether there is a chance your child will end up gay... the percentage rate is 79% chance... would you terminate that child?

If you have a child in the future, do all you can to make sure this rare occurance doesnt take place ... don't do drug's drink the best quality water you can buy, stay away from foods which have been altered, don't allow your partner to take drugs, do everything you can because it is real and any birth defect is nasty... the thing with trnsexuality is you can only do something about it when you have the ability and mental strength to face your fears, feelings and the aftermath.




posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:38 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Exactly, in my opinion the innocence of children should not be tainted. They shouldn't have to deal with concepts such as homosexuality or transexuality, that's just wrong in my opinion.

I think we are probably going to have to agree to disagree because you cannot change a man into a woman and vice versa.

I've given in slightly and accepted that the pain and emotions people who feel like this go through must be terrible but a man who likes pink, barbie dolls etc is a feminine man. He isn't a woman born in a man's body...

I know plenty of feminine guys, even spoke to one last night actually who works in my local shop and was a childhood friend. He's gay, which I have no problem with, although I wouldn't be too happy if he tried to make a move on me but he wouldn't do that as he knows I'm 100% straight.

It's an interesting topic and that's why I started the thread, not because I wanted to slate or express my so called hatred against people different than me.

I'd say that I'm a pretty open minded person, hence one of the reasons I joined this site, but I suppose that ultimately I'll never really understand or agree with concepts such as transsexualism or homosexuality.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 05:57 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Exactly, in my opinion the innocence of children should not be tainted. They shouldn't have to deal with concepts such as homosexuality or transexuality, that's just wrong in my opinion.

I appreciate what you are saying and I am not trying to change your opinion im only trying to point out the differences between Transexaulity, Homosexuality, and other gender dysphoria problems.

Children should learn about gender and sexuality problems... gender problems so they don't leave the mess behind people like me leave behind! How can a child get the help it needs if it is stuggling to define the feelings?

Did you take a look at Kim Petras?

If you had a child and was transexual would you help asap or would you allow the child to turn into a fully fledged man, feel suicidal, probably attempt it and the rest of the damge the bring on?

I am nothing like a homosexual man... I am a million miles away from being a homosexual man. I am a woman who is living in a mans world in a mans body... at times believe me there are many advantages to this!

LGBT the umbrella term meaning Lesbian gay bisexual and transgender/transexual is an umberella term that can cause offence to transexuals and it can cause offence to homosexual people. Transexual people find it offensive because Gender is unrelated to sexuality and you need to break down that link in your mind.

The NHS take too long helping people with this problem and it does cause many people to become mentally ill due to the fact that the waiting times and the support available is very hard to get.

www.gender-id.com...

I hope you are taking the time to research the materials i present to you.

One thing that has to be made clear and it is offensive is that a transexual woman is not a homosexual man. Sexual preference is seperate.

I can not even begin toi describe what a homosexual may feel or long for.

A feminate male is not transexual.
A transvestite is not a transexual
A Transexual is a Transexual.

The last thing on my mind right now is men!



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:05 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by IanC99000310
 



I'd say that I'm a pretty open minded person, hence one of the reasons I joined this site, but I suppose that ultimately I'll never really understand or agree with concepts such as transsexualism or homosexuality.



This is the point exactly... ask the questions, I can answer them, but "concepts of transexualism and Homosexuality" please... the indoctorine from your parents is strong.

You can understand them you have to choose to... nobody said you have to accept that is is a way of living you are comfortable with, however it isn't wrong.

Homosexuality and transexuality are NOT one and the same. One is a sexual orientation and the other is Gender Dysphoria.

the resources for understanding these things is available... go and meet the people there are support groups in Manchester and a GIC clinic, if you WANT to understand and be more accepting then use the tools that are avaialble.

I am not going to answer about Homosexuality I will leave that to the people who know about it.

Transexuality, is a word that is and should be used to describe a person in TRANSITION from one gender to another. Once gender confirmation and that is the medical term has taken place, the person is no longer TRANSITIONING and is now gender specific. Ie Woman legally recognised or man. this is nothing at all to do with DNA, as stated earlier the last thing in the womb to develop is the actual physical gender.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Believe me, even if I hate you (a very strong word/feeling and something almost impossible to do regarding someone you communicate with on the internet) I'd still at least respect you enough to read what you have posted as a backup to your claims/opinions.

Although it is a time consuming process as believe it or not I don't have that much free time to sit here on ATS all day, I will read the link you posted and respond accordingly.

Let me get something straight then, your a male who feels like a female on the inside. You have stated that your definately not a homosexual and that sexual preference and gender orientation are two different things; which I agree.

So, if you have gender reassignment surgery and "become" a woman who will you want to have sex with? Other women still?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Whether or not you can fully change is completely irrelevant and off topic, and not an argument toward whether transsexualism exists or not at all. I don't know why you continue going on about it like it is.

Furthermore, it's extremely ignorant to say to someone that they have to suppress their feelings and inner stirrings so that people don't have to have one simple conversation with their children at an awkward time. A lifetime of regret vs. a five-minute conversation that you should have with your child anyways? It's obvious that you are adding the pressure of your finger to tip the scale in the direction you want it to be. It's funny that you bring up your future children, because my father used to sound a lot like you... before he had a gay son. And I am glad my father took the time to take me aside and explain to me about gay people; at least I knew I wasn't alone from that point on. Now that my father accepts people, our house is much more loving, everyone gets along, and this new sense of family could have never been achieved if he had never had a clearer sign that homosexuality was something that was meant to be accepted. Actually about a year ago me and my boyfriend kissed upstairs on Christmas, away from the family (as you would wish, master), and my niece saw us somehow without me hearing her stomping around like a rhinoceros. She started giggling hysterically and ran downstairs telling the whole family "Uncle Josh just kissed his friend!" My sister obviously hadn't explained what "gay" was to her yet, but that night she did and after it all we all had a good chuckle about it, and its now a pretty normal inside joke to come up in my family. I also think it is pretty strange that you ask us to put ourselves in the child's shoes, as I recall experiences of this happening when I was a child (barely) and it was not bothersome at all, I was curious and happy to hear an answer, and that's exactly what it is. Curiosity, not confusion; even if it was confusion that would not justify suppressing feelings so that someone's children aren't exposed to reality at a young age. Your parental attitude should not be "Here is the world, now let me shield you from it because you do not like it" it should be " This is the world, I am your guide, you will be in it by yourself sooner than we both think, and if you need help I am right by your side".

Explaining things to your children is never deconstructive. Suppressing how you feel naturally almost always is. I'll agree with you that it can absolutely be harmful to instill your opinions on your children, though; ask any nazi's kid (a.k.a. today's skinheads). I also think it's pretty ridiculous when some kid starts arguing with me about very old issues that predate issues from the 1970s (usually some form of religious extremism), and one simple defense line throws them off completely and they don't know what to say (not unlike their parents, haha). It's not very healthy for children to just assume other people's opinions as their own and parents definitely should not automatically proclaim their beliefs on controversial issues with their children as that is how they end up developing into ignorant, non-accepting people.

Again, though, you think it is wrong to impose these ideas on children, but you completely void the idea that the child that you are educating under your responsibility could also be gay or transsexual, and it is absolutely neccessary for them to know what they are thinking so that they don't actually become confused as opposed to curious.


edit on 10-9-2010 by Brood because: o.O



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:14 AM
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Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


Whether or not you can fully change is completely irrelevant and off topic, and not an argument toward whether transsexualism exists or not at all. I don't know why you continue going on about it like it is.


Because it's relevant to the thread.

2nd line.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by IanC99000310

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by IanC99000310
 



I'd say that I'm a pretty open minded person, hence one of the reasons I joined this site, but I suppose that ultimately I'll never really understand or agree with concepts such as transsexualism or homosexuality.


This is the point exactly... ask the questions, I can answer them, but "concepts of transexualism and Homosexuality" please... the indoctorine from your parents is strong.


My parents haven't indoctrinated me with anything, I can assure you that.

My thoughts and opinions are my own and if I thought they were influenced in any shape or form on this matter then I'd readily admit it.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Believe me, even if I hate you (a very strong word/feeling and something almost impossible to do regarding someone you communicate with on the internet) I'd still at least respect you enough to read what you have posted as a backup to your claims/opinions.

Although it is a time consuming process as believe it or not I don't have that much free time to sit here on ATS all day, I will read the link you posted and respond accordingly.

Let me get something straight then, your a male who feels like a female on the inside. You have stated that your definately not a homosexual and that sexual preference and gender orientation are two different things; which I agree.

So, if you have gender reassignment surgery and "become" a woman who will you want to have sex with? Other women still?


God allowing and that i am fortunate enough...

I will want a fulfilling realtionship if it is possible with a man. Not a feminate male not a homosexual man but a man.

I have a male body that is very feminate without hormones.
I am a woman... completely... not a man who thinks he is a woman or thinks he thinks like a woman... I am a woman.... and believe me you know if you know.

I understand that this is time consuming I work all night so i appreciate long hours and that fact you work...

I don't hate you for your opinion, I am just helping the debate... If a transexual hadn't been on here then this debate wouldn't have raged on so well....

Bear in mind that my feelings and emotions are exclusive to me and although other people experiance things it doesnt mean your experiances are wrong. We could both go Ice skating we would both take away different memories.... Mine could be that was really hard not being able to be me on the ice and quite frustrating that could lead to anger an hour or two down the line because i couldn't be me... you may have loved it and skated around with me and had a ball.... You may have seen me smiling... it would have been at your enjoyment.... the argument to come would be related to me not being able to be me and seeing you being able to be you... but would relate to something else....

If you catch my drift....


thge argument could be over you taking the wrong way home but would be fuelled by my frustrations and anger



edit on 10-9-2010 by IanC99000310 because: poor explanation needed amending.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by Brood
 


Originally posted by Brood
If something is possible, why not find out if it is TRUE. How do we do that? Let's research and see if anyone claims that they feel different about something concerning their gender and their body. Oh look, over 20 billion people have openly felt this way over the course of history? The truth couldn't be more clear!


20 Billion? .....lol.........
...........That's funny!.... Ha ha .....So you're saying that 20% of all the people who ever lived are openly gay?....... Try 1 billion tops! Get your facts straight. Maybe a billion gay people have ever been open about it......and this is on the high end when you consider there are only about 2%-3% of the population that is gay.

It sounds to me that you are gay and you wish that everybody else would choose to be gay.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by Brood
 


Originally posted by Brood
If something is possible, why not find out if it is TRUE. How do we do that? Let's research and see if anyone claims that they feel different about something concerning their gender and their body. Oh look, over 20 billion people have openly felt this way over the course of history? The truth couldn't be more clear!


20 Billion? .....lol.........
...........That's funny!.... Ha ha .....So you're saying that 20% of all the people who ever lived are openly gay?....... Try 1 billion tops! Get your facts straight. Maybe a billion gay people have ever been open about it......and this is on the high end when you consider there are only about 2%-3% of the population that is gay.

It sounds to me that you are gay and you wish that everybody else would choose to be gay.




Research suggests and only suggests some people can actually grow out of Gender Dysphoria...

The brain can rectify itself... but this is only suggestive research....

Stop with the GAY and TRANSEXUALITY LINKAGE


edit on 10-9-2010 by IanC99000310 because: The Brian can't rectify itself however the brain can.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Originally posted by IanC99000310
Scientists have located the gene that determines wether there is a chance your child will end up gay... the percentage rate is 79% chance... would you terminate that child?

This is a bunch of BS!.......If there is a 79% chance of being gay, then 79% of the population would be gay.
The fact is that between 2%-3% of the population is gay. Your numbers are laughable.....just like your argument for transsexualism.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Originally posted by IanC99000310
Scientists have located the gene that determines wether there is a chance your child will end up gay... the percentage rate is 79% chance... would you terminate that child?

This is a bunch of BS!.......If there is a 79% chance of being gay, then 79% of the population would be gay.
The fact is that between 2%-3% of the population is gay. Your numbers are laughable.....just like your argument for transsexualism.


You arent reading correctly.... the chances are that YOUR child are 79% chance the child will be gay not 79% of the poulation....

The argument for transexualism is not my argument... I have given a real life account and provided research material and FACTS regarding transexualism.

Im not going to have a tit for tat argument with someone who isn't reading.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Originally posted by IanC99000310
You arent reading correctly.... the chances are that YOUR child are 79% chance the child will be gay not 79% of the poulation....

What's the difference?..... 79% is 79%....
....You can't really expect us to be this stupid, can you?.......



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 



I will want a fulfilling realtionship if it is possible with a man. Not a feminate male not a homosexual man but a man.


But a man who wants a sexual relationship with another man is a homosexual, no matter how you dress it up you would be a man pretending to be a woman.



I am a woman... completely... not a man who thinks he is a woman or thinks he thinks like a woman... I am a woman.... and believe me you know if you know.


Yeah but your not, you are a man. I'm not insulting you here, simply telling the truth, I'd be interested in how you class yourself as a woman? What makes you think that and why?



I don't hate you for your opinion, I am just helping the debate... If a transexual hadn't been on here then this debate wouldn't have raged on so well....


I don't hate you either and your input has helped the debate no end, it's useful having a subject (I don't mean that in an insulting manner) of which my OP describes here to participate and hopefully shed some insight.



I have a male body that is very feminate without hormones.


There's plenty of men like that, I've seen many. Nothing that the gym or a few home exercises won't fix.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:53 AM
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What is so funny...

Science will allow you to know if your child carries the gene that will make the child gay. They will be able to tell you the percentage chance of that child turning out to be gay.

Just like they can tell you wether you carry the ms gene or the parkinsons or the huntingtons...

Just like they can tell you the chances of your child being Down Syndrome....they even inject against Downs in older women.

You are being childish and are proving to be nothing more than an iritation. Go and find some evidence that totally disproves Transexuality... point prove and explain why Transexualism isn't real....

Not one person has provided any scientific evidence to prove that they are correct in saying transexualism isn't real yet many including me have provided lots.

Take some time to address some of your issues with sub groups of society.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:54 AM
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Originally posted by Death_Kron
I still don't believe that anyone in this thread has managed to prove that you can be born a female in a mans body, it's simply called being a feminine man i.e. a man who likes pink, plays with barbie dolls, doesn't like making dens and climbing trees etc etc

Can you imagine trying to explain to a 7 year old little girl or boy why theres a man in the supermarket who looks like a woman or why theres a woman with a mans voice and no breasts?


edit on 10/9/10 by Death_Kron because: Spelling



Ehhhhh ... this is a bit more diverse and complex than that. Gender isn't entirely influenced by sexuality and interests ... The idea that an FTM is a big butch monster, and MTF is a homosexual man playing dress up is pretty much all over the place. My likes don't match my gender, and I don't overly try hard to fit a gender role. Though I believe people have already mentioned this stuff to you and you either disagree with it or are ignoring it?

Pretty much the concept that all TS/TGs wear the opposite gender's clothes and do the opposite gender's hobbies and get off on it is incorrect. Though that type is the most entertaining type on Jerry Springer.

My friend's parents explained it to their kids and they got it just fine. Actually they mostly didn't care. Just someone around them changed a little bit. They don't even really seem that interested in it - certainly not as interested as most people.

As for 100% proving ... well science is getting closer. I'd say it warrants research. You're welcome to your opinion of course, but you can't say science backs you either way unfortunately. And no one here has the qualifications to even start proving it to you.

As for the actual 'change' ... I dunno. I was born without the ability to have children and things like that, and I was born with the wrong voice btw so it can happen naturally. I suppose it's like being born with any other illness that changes a person. I suppose the exception for you will be that it prevents or changes how 'working' organs operate. Well that's going to be a continued topic of disagreement.

You're not going to find any 'answers' or really change anyone's mind other than those that already had it made up.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by Death_Kron
 


When I go to the GIC next time I send you an invite to come and speak to the doctors. Come and have a listen to what goes on.... Ask some questions.

That is the best I can offer. It is an open invite and you are more than welcome to come along.



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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Originally posted by IanC99000310
reply to post by Death_Kron
 


When I go to the GIC next time I send you an invite to come and speak to the doctors. Come and have a listen to what goes on.... Ask some questions.

That is the best I can offer. It is an open invite and you are more than welcome to come along.


That's fair enough but I've just asked you the questions and you fail to answer them?

Surely, being a pre-op transexual yourself, you should be able to answer any queries in far greater detail and depth than any doctor could?



posted on Sep, 10 2010 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by IanC99000310
 


Originally posted by IanC99000310
What is so funny...


You are!.......
......................79%........


A child is a child!........
...............
.....


Originally posted by IanC99000310
Im not going to have a tit for tat argument with someone who isn't reading.

Well then how about a tat for tit?.......



edit on 10-9-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth because: tat for tit....




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