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Why did I join the Masons & What did I learn?

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posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 08:34 AM

Originally posted by getreadyalready First of all, there is no such thing as a 33rd Degree Mason. really did your homework didn't

My Grandfather was a 33rd degree mason, he stated one time he didn't want to go any further than where he was was at, and was all that was ever said.
In my opinion the lesser levels of masonry don't really know squat, it's just a good old boys club at those levels. I've always felt that once you were a 33rd degree if you possessed certain characteristics in that ranking you might be initiated to higher unknown levels, this would be by invitation only and would be a closely guarded secret. In other words you could rot at the 33rd degree level and still not know squat.

With regards to Lucifer, Lucifer means "Light", so what the hell is that all about? We know Christianity wasn't created by the Roman Catholic Church but they were the ones who put it on the map so Constantine would have more control over his subjects as many of them were Pagans. Now the last count I had was that the Holy Bible has been edited 48 times over the centuries and mostly by the Roman Catholic Church, why?, spelling Maybe there were things they never wanted us to know do ya think? Do some good historical research on the Roman Catholic Church and their Popes and you'll be surprised. So that leaves us with the question, how much credibility does the church and the bible have as a trusted source of true knowledge? So who was Lucifer and what was this being really? Why was the church so actively engaged in destroying disciplines like masonry and many others like it?

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 08:36 AM

Originally posted by snowen20
So from I can discern is that just like any organization or government there may be a faction of masonry that is less than kosher. I mean if a Government can be corrupt and any smaller organization as well then I don't see why it is to outrageous to assume Masonry to be in the same boat.

I know it may grind the gears of some to think that their trusted organization may at times act nefariously, but a few bad apples don't spoil the man, it just spoils the unit.
Well, as Fitz mentions above, it doesn't, or at least shouldn't, spoil the entire fraternity. Yes, some bad people slip in. Yes, some members try to take advantage of their membership for personal gain. But that's not what Masonry is about, and the entire fraternity shouldn't be judged on the actions of the few.

It's not Masonic teachings that are making these men corrupt—they were corrupt men to begin with, who happened to become Masons.

You can't say all Catholic priests are child molesters; you can't say that all southern white people are members of the KKK; you can't say that all Muslims are terrorists; and you can't say that all Native Americans are drunks. (OK, you can probably say that all Irish are drunks... I'll give you that generality... but the others? Nah...)

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Boomer1941
So who was Lucifer and what was this being really?
Lucifer was never a being at all. That was one typo (for lack of a better word) in one translation...
Read here for a more complete account...

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 09:11 AM
not that I don't believe the stories of deathbed confessions from grandpas who were 33rd degree or 32nd degree masons, but I am a mason. I present first hand information. I personally attend the meetings, and I personally do the ritual. I have never seen any part of masonry to be anything other than what any mason on this board has claimed. Or what any masonic website, publication, or video showed. It simply is a group of men trying to be better men. What people leave is their own business. If they claim that once they reached the 33rd, they were asked to eat a small child or spit on the Pope's shoes, that is their right to say. But it doesn't make it true.

edit on 13-9-2010 by network dude because: since my reason for edit must be filled out I will state that I changed why to what as it made more sense to me. have a nice day and thanks for reading this incredibly long and worthless edit message. You know, I have often wondered about edits. I think that sometimes people are just a bit careless and might misspell or mis type a word and simply wish to change it. Anyway, this is just my opinion and should not get in the way of the thread, so I will end this long and needless rant.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 09:28 AM
reply to post by network dude

If referring to me let me clarify so that it is abundantly clear.
I was never told there was anything unprecedented going on in masonry of any kind, I was just told that like I mentioned, A few bad apple came in and changed things in such a way as to give the impression that there was a conspiracy; a conspiracy that resembled in some ways that of witchcraft.

I do not believe for one single second that Freemasons practice this in rituals open or secret, but I do believe that covens do set up shop in some pretty interesting locals, masonry included.

I also mentioned that I am not familiar with masonry enough to make any sound judgment one way or the other but so far as I can see I have really not seen anything out of the ordinary.

I think in my grandfathers case, he had some issues with some others that were like he said practicing things in a non masonic way and I think it basically made him feel like he wasted his time in masonry.

To clarify also on your very last point.
It doesn't necessarily make it untrue either. Like I said some nuts do get into high offices all over the world and attempt to change things in one twisted way or another.

edit on 13-9-2010 by snowen20 because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 09:37 AM
reply to post by network dude

LIke I said before as well, I am friends with many 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons, and even some Past Grand Masters, and they have a hard time eating chitlins, let alone Children.

One of the sweetest men I know is a 33rd degree, and a past DDGM, and a past District Instructor, and he drives the Shriner Van to the hospital in Tampa every week, and he drives 50 miles at age 70 to come to our Lodge on every degree night even though he is only an honorary member of our Lodge, and he still has a lot of fire in his belly when it comes to people doing things incorrectly or against Masonic principles.

If there was anyone within 250 miles of us, in the past 40 years, doing anything remotely similar to the Conspiracy rumors, this guy would have known about it, and he would have put a stop to it.

Maybe there have been a few bad apples over the years, but that can be said for any organization. There have been a few bad Governors, and Presidents, and Priests, and School Teachers, and Rotary Club Members, and fathers, and mothers, etc., etc.

All in all, out of 10's of 1000's of Masons, a couple of bad apples, acting independently of the Organization, and more than likely suspended from the fraternity as soon as their actions were known, does not reflect badly on the Organization. If anything, it serves to prove how good our fraternity is at picking good men, and then policing ourselves effectively.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 10:01 AM
reply to post by snowen20

I was referring to your post, but only in the sense that there were two "my grandpa" posts very close to each other and I wanted to make it very clear that second hand information is just that. I did not nor would I accuse you of lying. And your grandfather may have had a very good reason for leaving. Without knowing him personally, I cannot say anything for sure, but I would suspect that the problems may have been lodge related and not masonry related. people are people and some are pecker heads. masons are not immune to that part of life.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Boomer1941

In my opinion the lesser levels of masonry don't really know squat, it's just a good old boys club at those levels. I've always felt that once you were a 33rd degree if you possessed certain characteristics in that ranking you might be initiated to higher unknown levels, this would be by invitation only and would be a closely guarded secret. In other words you could rot at the 33rd degree level and still not know squat.

The third degree is not a "lesser level of Masonry" than the Scottish Rite 33rd. This has been explained many times, but sometimes it seems difficult for non-Masons to understand how Masonry is set up and how it operates.

The 33rd degree is the second highest honor in the Scottish Rite, and is the highest degree in that Rite. It does not, however, grant its recipients any "rank" or authority, and the degree is not recognized in other Rites of Masonry outside of the Scottish.

There are no "secret" or "unkown levels" in Freemasonry. For anything to be legitimately Masonic, it must be clearly defined in the Constitutions of Masonry.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 01:58 PM
My father and grandfather are both masons. The day my grandfather started talking illuminati and skull and bones, accompanied with my father trying to bribe me to have sex with him, (I'm a male) and both of them laughing agreeably with when Al Pacino in "A Devil's Advocate" said "There are so many names. Call me Dad," I fervently dedicated myself to take no part in such an organization that would condone such "morality."

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 02:05 PM

To quote someone else: "The type of enlightenment that such a group offers does not involve the heart (green ray) chakra and by-passes compassion on route to a purely 'mental' path, opening the lower and upper energy centers without regard for the heart."

Another who was interested in joining FM: "I was looking into joining them as well. When I was explained all the different things I would need to divulge before acceptance I was a bit skeptical. Background check, giving numbers of close friends, family and interview."

I believe some lower tier freemasons can have a heart's desire to be truly motivated in service-to-others, but that probably is the reason why they are still just lower tier. Why would one knowingly give out personal information regarding their family and their security to an organization known to do deeds in the dark and most likely without retribution? (Masons are sworn to help their brothers out, even in court, under oath.)

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 02:23 PM
reply to post by 4KAAN

That is messed up!!

Trust me that had nothing to do with Masonry. We actually take oaths to not have sex with our brother's wives and daughters. I guess technically we don't say anything about sons, but that is pretty much a given!

I don't know if your grandfather and father got into some bad juju or had a brain parasite, or what, but it was not Masonry that made them crazy. I hope you turned out ok? Of all the people on all these boards that are anti-Masonry, I think you have the most legitimate reason. That would have scarred me too.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 02:31 PM
reply to post by KSigMason

This is what I was referring to:

This is an actual example of it being used:

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 02:48 PM
reply to post by 4KAAN

wow, if I were you, I would call the police or something. That is seriously messed up. In fact, if you want I will contact the secretary of their lodge and report them to have them immediately expelled form masonry. Once they are brought up on masonic charges, the civil charges will be easy to deal with. That isn't tolerated in masonry or in regular society. I don't need any other information but his last name and lodge number. I have enough other information to go on. Please let me help you with this, that is, unless it is a complete fabrication of a school kid who has a bit too much time on his hands.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 02:52 PM
reply to post by 4KAAN

Another who was interested in joining FM: "I was looking into joining them as well. When I was explained all the different things I would need to divulge before acceptance I was a bit skeptical. Background check, giving numbers of close friends, family and interview."

If this type of thing makes you uncomfortable, then Free Masonry is no place for you. Neither is the work force, the military, or the education system. I am not sure what type of life you can live without providing a background check, references, and an emergency contact, and having at least one interview? I think they even require this basic stuff of drug dealers? Maybe your friend is suited for a life of luxury as an odd-job doer and habitual gamer?

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 03:22 PM
If anything, it's the abhorrent disregard for the heart chakra that turns me off. My father's lusting for me is only a mirror for the lack of empathy that masonry has displayed to me thus far.
That and the intimidating tactics they use against those of anti-or perhaps even just non-masonic statuses. I was just at a David Icke speech, and I'm fairly certain the only dude in the theatre yelling out obscenities and questioning his children's legitimacy (in regards to the reptilian agenda he was unveiling [if you so believe in such an agenda]) in middle of the seminar, was probably masonic. For who could yell with such ferocity and defensiveness than someone who has something secret to protect, perhaps, by oath? Or duty?
I really want to believe freemasonry could have had pure roots, given I used look as George Washington as one of the few, true heroes in our nation's history, but now I can't really be sure. Perhaps it was after his time as a freemason that the society was infiltrated by the illuminati? In that case, what about Jefferson? He spoke of the illuminati...from what I recall, in high regards...
But I can't join a secret society. I love my wife too much. Really love her. I'd die for her, not for brothers. I AM in a fraternity, so I do understand the concept of brotherhood...but I live by class and integrity/charity (which I prefer to relate to as good-semaritanism, not just giving out checks to local organizations) without having to pay dues and subject to oaths I already live by naturally.

I'm not going to turn my father in. He's a bastard, but I forgive him.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 04:21 PM
reply to post by 4KAAN

You are nutz.

Don't know what else to say? You assume some random yelling man is a Mason. You talk about hostility of Masons in a thread full of forthcoming Masons. You talk about charity being more than writing a check, yet you ignore all the good works that Masons do and the fact that rarely do they come in monetary form? You say you love your wife too much to become a member of a brotherhood, yet you say you are already in a fraternity? The original and most prolific and honorable fraternity in the world is FreeMasonry, and yes, we love our wives too!

You say your father tried to bribe you for sex? Oddest accusation I have ever heard by the way. Then you say he is a bastard. Then you say you forgive him and wouldn't turn him in?

At least turn him in to the Masons. He doesn't need to be a member of our fraternity if he is willing to bribe his own son for sex? Maybe a really sexy stepdaughter, but not his own son? (j/k by the way, Masons do not seduce their own stepdaughters either.)

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by seridium

reply to topic op
u didnt so stop lying

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 04:45 PM
I forgive him because it is a personal ordeal. fyi, he's also shown desire in having sex with his daughter (my sister) , who is married, and my brother's girlfriend. He's in his 50's, and doesn't love my mother. He only married her because he was in his 20's during the vietnam era, for which, it was common then to marry early because of the fear of death.

No need to turn him in to the masons, because, as far as I'm concerned, I want nothing to do with them. I just want to live in peace.

I reckon I should get off this sub-forum. I just love ATS, and felt interested in posting my thoughts, if not, to just get to 20 posts so I can start my own threads in the future when I deem necessary to do so.

edited for typos

edit on 13-9-2010 by 4KAAN because: (no reason given)

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 08:58 PM
reply to post by network dude

Then we are in agreement because I also don't believe it is masonry related but like you said lodge related.
In fact that's one of the points that was made clear to me.
I don't claim to be even a novice at understanding everything about masonry and thus far...EVERY MASON I HAVE EVER KNOWN was a better man than most (accept for one). Loyal, honorable, with loads of integrity and respect for everyone. If there is a conspiracy for that kind of person to take over the world I say let them have it. lol

However I honestly don't believe there is such a conspiracy outside the imaginings of a few conspiracy theorists.
I believe that there may have been lodges in places in the past that may have rocked the boat for masonry as a whole and this is where such ideology springs.

In my first post I came off sounding like I was told "deep dark secrets" which is not the case. I was simply enlightened as to why one person was having a problem with it, sense the people in his lodge and a few others were undergoing some changes in people or position or something. Hell I don't know he may have been pissed that he wasn't given the 33rd degree I cant say for sure. I never claimed to believe everything he told me or that I took it at face value, though I have never known him to lie to me.

So in regards to this whole thread my stance is that while I may not agree with all the practices or allegorical ceremonies that masons perform, I in no way take them to be overly sinister, like wise, one mans reasons for leaving do not make a conspiracy.

posted on Sep, 13 2010 @ 09:08 PM
reply to post by 4KAAN

Out of curiosity how many masons have you known?
In one of my posts i stated almost all were upstanding men save for one who is a drinker,gambler, lascivious man who often goes to strip clubs and messes around though he is married, he has a mouth like a sewer and no respect for anyone. I personally believe he joined the masons for the benefits of "knowing people".

Because he is a 5 star A hole, I cant paint everyone In masonry as the same. It just seems to me that maybe your letting a couple of crappy events skew your whole view of an organization. It inst an organization I agree with per se, I'm just stating that I don't believe that masonry had to do with your bad experience. I Could be completely wrong though, just a thought.

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