Why did I join the Masons & What did I learn?

In re: Masonic Levels and Secrets.
Unless you are in the upper echelon of the upper most levels of Masonry you can not know if there are different practices of Masonry, you have sworn an oath at the initiatory levels and more than likely another more severe oath at any unknown upper level. To say there are no Secrets, Oaths or Rituals at these upper levels would be in error, because another mason told you there were not, means nothing, how would he know. The only way one would know is if they were at this high level, and in the inner circle, then the problem is that person has more than likely sworn another oath and would be compelled to lie rather than tell the truth to an outsider or one in the lower levels of masonry.

In re: Lucifer
Thanks for that link and explanation, that just put another piece of the puzzle together for me and somewhat cements a personal belief/suspicion in the upper levels of Masonry and many Secret Societies. This is a very complicated issue and requires much research on the part of the individual to put all the pieces together to formulate any belief. I will however leave you with a clue...Venus Magic Square.

reply to post by Boomer1941

How do you know this? Everything I've ever asked of members of different groups have answered as much as they could. They don't lie or mislead. We Freemasons still believe in fidelity and loyalty.

reply to post by Boomer1941


cool, I am glad I finally get to talk to someone who can tell me about the upper levels. See, I am just a 32nd (porch mason), I go to meetings and am 3rd in line to be master, but so far, it's just been the "be a better man" and "help your fellow man" kind of stuff. Could you please tell me when and where I will get a chance to be drafted to the top? Who do I talk to? What should I say? BTW, where did you get this information? Thanks in advance for all your help on this.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Boomer1941

 

How do you know this? Everything I've ever asked of members of different groups have answered as much as they could. They don't lie or mislead. We Freemasons still believe in fidelity and loyalty.

They don't lie? Everybody lies, we are a Planet of Liars, think about it.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Boomer1941

 

cool, I am glad I finally get to talk to someone who can tell me about the upper levels. See, I am just a 32nd (porch mason), I go to meetings and am 3rd in line to be master, but so far, it's just been the "be a better man" and "help your fellow man" kind of stuff. Could you please tell me when and where I will get a chance to be drafted to the top? Who do I talk to? What should I say? BTW, where did you get this information? Thanks in advance for all your help on this.

Well congratulations on all your accomplishments in Masonry and your feeble attempt to put words in my mouth. Now that we've dispensed with your ego go back and re-read my post and how ever difficult it is for you apply common sense to my statement.

reply to post by Boomer1941

Just because you're pessimistic doesn't mean you're right, and like I said before, the Freemasons still believe in integrity, honesty.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
In re: Masonic Levels and Secrets.
Unless you are in the upper echelon of the upper most levels of Masonry you can not know if there are different practices of Masonry, you have sworn an oath at the initiatory levels and more than likely another more severe oath at any unknown upper level. To say there are no Secrets, Oaths or Rituals at these upper levels would be in error, because another mason told you there were not, means nothing, how would he know. The only way one would know is if they were at this high level, and in the inner circle, then the problem is that person has more than likely sworn another oath and would be compelled to lie rather than tell the truth to an outsider or one in the lower levels of masonry.

OK, I guess we have to do it this way. What is the "upper echelon of the upper most levels of Masonry"? HOw do you know they exist? Are you a high level mason?

To say there are no Secrets, Oaths or Rituals at these upper levels would be in error, because another mason told you there were not, means nothing, how would he know.

and how would you? Are you a high level mason?

what is the inner circle, (other than some term David Icke used)

Again, I love being called a low level mason by a non mason. It warms the cockles of my heart.

I did you the favor of quoting you so you wouldn't forget what your wrote. Now do you understand my context?

reply to post by network dude


I don't know. All these "Low Level" Masons saying there are no secrets. What do they understand eh?
I am a 135° Order of the Feather Duster. We have lots of secrets, but I cannot tell you.

Seriously though people. List to the Network Dude, and all the other Masons here. We are an open and friendly crowd.
If you really want to know what we are upto behind our closed doors, just pay a visit your local Lodge. We don't bite (too hard).

reply to post by network dude


LOL!

Don't you know that some internet rumor from some disgruntled ex-Mason trumps all of your personal experience and first-hand knowledge?

If there is a higher level than Grand Master of Florida and 20 year 33rd degree Mason, then I must not know very much.

I hope these non-Masons can enlighten us, so that I can take it back to my Lodge and let the brothers know that we have all been hornswaggled, and we could have been rich, famous, and powerful if only we had joined the right clique within Masonry. All that love and charity and keeping passions within due bounds is just a cover story, underneath of it all is a deep-seeded greedy underbelly and nobody told us. I feel so used.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I am just waiting for the proof. I mean, this rumor has been around a long time. new people spout this stuff all the time. Some of them act as if they really believe it. I am open minded enough to look at any evidence that says my experience is wrong. Perhaps I have been slipping into another dimension when I go to the lodge and what I am a part of isn't really masonry. It's OK to think something might be, but to act as if you know for sure and then have zero proof, it borders on lunacy. I guess it keeps this place going though. If everyone was educated, it would be a very boring place indeed.

I'm not a Mason, though the prospect interests me, so I cannot say that a Mason doesn't know what he's talking about. And judging by the fact that you find humor in the non-masons telling you you're low level. It can be assumed you guys must be fairly high up your ladder and thus know what you're talking about.

However, I understand how the others come to their views (though I cant determine yours so well because of your Fraternity's secrecy) From the outside, a person looks at this and says "If there were levels higher than Grand Master (I'm unfamiliar with your ranks so please forgive my ignorance) then any person who is not inducted into this or higher rank would be unaware." where my point differs from the thousands of others is that by actually reading what you say and applying objective logic, I can determine that you know, with a great deal of certainty, that there is most likely no "secret order" and since you are in a better position to be aware of such knowledge, I must say I believe your statements.


My apologies if that was long winded

reply to post by Azekual


thanks for your reply. The thing is that rank has very little if nothing to do with masonry. The whole idea that we try to get across is that we meet on the level. Meaning we are all the same. And we make some incredible friends that way. In normal life, a plumber wouldn't hang out with a doctor and a senator, but in masonry, they can meet, find out they have much more in common than they thought, and become best friends. Yes the grand master and past grand master are revered. Not because they have any special privileges or powers, but because they had to have been exemplary masons in the first place to be elected to that position, and they had to have put in years of very hard work to get to that spot. So they deserve respect, they earned it. To put it in perspective, I have only been a mason for 4 years. Some of my friends has been in 20 years. A past grand master lives in my neighborhood and brings his grand kids to swim in the community pool. We talk as if we are have known each other for years and are good friends. He is just a nice guy. And he is also a 33rd degree Scottish Rite mason. I hope that helps define the ranks a bit.

reply to post by network dude

Yes, that does help. So what you're saying is that the ranks aren't based on power, but brotherhood. Everyone is the same within the Masons, and the only thing the higher up really do outside of ceremony is serve as a role model? correct?

Originally posted by Azekual
From the outside, a person looks at this and says "If there were levels higher than Grand Master (I'm unfamiliar with your ranks so please forgive my ignorance) then any person who is not inducted into this or higher rank would be unaware."

I think you've interpreted the whole situation fairly well, but to go one step further, I'd argue that if there were anything higher that were dark & sinister and unknown to other Masons, it wouldn't be Masonry... it would be something else. Masonry has a strictly defined structure. ANY group of guys can get together after hours and make shady back-room deals, but that doesn't make it Masonic even if those men happen to be Masons.

reply to post by JoshNorton

Thank you, I strive for not just knowledge, but the truth as well.

That makes sense, since Masonry is founded on "Helping thy fellow man" a sinister puppet master group wouldn't be masonic by nature.

Originally posted by Azekual
reply to post by network dude

 

Yes, that does help. So what you're saying is that the ranks aren't based on power, but brotherhood. Everyone is the same within the Masons, and the only thing the higher up really do outside of ceremony is serve as a role model? correct?

you said it much better than I did, and with less words. We all strive to be role models, but find ourselves constantly learning from each other. It's just another way to build yourself into a better person. The end result is directly proportional to the work put in.

Any person can bastardize a philosophy or disgrace a group. Most of the masons i know have been stand up people and i wish that more of my generation and those younger would join that way they would be given the tools to chisel away at the slate that is our soul. Morals and brotherhood our great foundations that need to make a comeback in society. Politics and Religion are not discussed in the lodge which should be mandated in a lot more places to keep arguing down amongst the public. Masons are great people.The Anti-Mason types should go after NGO's or other related groups that have negative effects on society. Not those who help the public.

They aren't stupid, they know that people will join just to find out if there is a conspiracy behind them.

That's why only the highest level masons know the truth.The rest are just a public cover-up.

Originally posted by AlienScientist
That's why only the highest level masons know the truth.

Except, of course, that there's no such thing as a “highest level mason”… Even the Grand Masters of Grand Lodges are only elected for one year terms (2 in some states, but not many).

Originally posted by Masonic Light
There are no "secret" or "unkown levels" in Freemasonry. For anything to be legitimately Masonic, it must be clearly defined in the Constitutions of Masonry.

Where are these "Constitutions" published?