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posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by truth_of_truth
 


I am here to help. Please feel free to question me further. I will answer honestly and frankly, whilst, as I hope you understand, not revealing too much. LOL

Sleep well and sweet dreams.




posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 06:56 AM
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I want to add something here. Freemasonry gets targeted quite a bit by those that do not understand the inner workings of any organized group of people. Not to be argumentative here, but there are things in any organization that are not intended for outsider's consumption. For proof of this, attempt to look into the inner dealings of any major corporation, and see just how much you can attain.

Does the inability to obtain the information that you seek immediately mean that the corporation you're looking into is withholding stuff of a nefarious nature from you? No. All it means is that there are some things that are not necessarily best released to the public at large.

Here's another example. Would you tell someone you've never met the pin number to your debit card? No? And why not? Because you don't want to lose that which you've spent so much time working to attain. I do believe that the Freemasonic organization functions under much the same premise. The Craft has grown since it's inception, and as has been mentioned already, it is called "a society with secrets". This moniker could most definitely be applied to any federal organization, as well as just about anyone else.

The above are just a couple of minor examples, rudimentary as they may be, to try to illustrate the need for secrecy in certain things. The military has secrets as well, in the form of what they call "compartmentalization". The reason for this is two-fold. 1) It keeps the secrets in the hands of those that "discovered it", and 2) it makes it harder for other nation-states to get the secrets of some foreign power out of some random soldier that they capture, as he/she doesn't know anything about what they seek.

It all comes down to perspective I think.

TheBorg



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by TheBorg
 


Thank you. You have mirrored my attempted replies perfectly, although, I feel that you worded it somewhat better than I.
For those non Masons, please read the Borg's post, it will put things into perspective.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:11 AM
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My grandfather on my father's side of the family was a 33rd degree Mason. He wore a ring. My grandmother was a member of the Eastern Star. They met at an Eastern Star dance in the late twenties. He was an attorney. He was active in Democratic party politics from the 1930's to the 1970's. He held various government posts throughout his career. He was considered by some to be one of the foremost municipal law experts in NY state. As an attorney there were times when he worked for free. He did free work for the Salvation Army, he was on their advisory board. He worked for free for all the churches he represented. He gave me a rich heritage. Many presidents of the US were Masons. I remember two portraits in my grandfather's law office, one of George Washington and one of Harry Truman both wearing Masonic regalia. I watched my grandfather get ready one time, he had a plumed hat, a sword(that was neat), some kind of apron, even white gloves. My grandparents were good people, respected members of the community, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a Mason.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by TheLoneArcher
 


you represent masonry very well brother.

Sadly, those who think masonry is evil, or at least evil at the "higher levels" will never believe our reassurances of the craft being exactly what we claim it is. And that's fine. It adds to the content of this site. If everyone knew the truth, I fear there would be no SS forum.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by TheBorg
 



Comparing a secret society with ties to the old mystery schools of Egypt and Sumer with a modern privately or publicly owned corporation goes to show your ignorance in this matter.

However you bringing up compartmentalization is a very good example, on how an organisation as freemasonry works.
And how it can be, that we have a ton of Freemasons on these boards, advocating how good an organisation freemasonry is. And how lunatic the rest of us are, because we are able to see a clear link between the symbolism and teachings of modern freemasonry and the ancient mystery schools.



reply to post by network dude
 


Greetings network dude!
You are implying that you for some reason hold the truth in this matter!
Have you advanced to the invisible upper echelon of freemasonry?

It is not a question if freemasonry is evil.
I do not believe it is, it is a question if freemasonry is being used for evil, and that is very well documented to be the case.
No direct evidence of course, but plenty of indirect evidence, that you of course will try to refute with the argument, that the person behind the evil act, might be a Freemason, but he was acting against the will and without the main body of freemasonry knowing anything about it.

You will continue to argument; that there are no official coherence between the different lodges, and societies. And that organisations such as skulls and bones, Bilderberg and bohemian groove etc. are independent organisations! That have no interaction with one another!



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by Schrödinger
 


Well I want you to show your proof of some upper echelon of Freemasonry. Freemasonry will always be looked at as something evil and full of conspericy, to those who seek the darkness of man who dont do any real research, who never visit a lodge or even Grand Lodge. Those who seek light, dont have to worry about Freemasonry. The only taking over that Masonry seeks is to spread brotherly love to mankind.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by Schrödinger
 


Well I want you to show your proof of some upper echelon of Freemasonry. Freemasonry will always be looked at as something evil and full of conspericy, to those who seek the darkness of man who dont do any real research, who never visit a lodge or even Grand Lodge. Those who seek light, dont have to worry about Freemasonry. The only taking over that Masonry seeks is to spread brotherly love to mankind.


Again you are twisting statements, I never said I had proof of an upper echelon. Do you even know what the word proof is? How could I prove it? Only one way, and that would be by joining the upper echelon myself!

There are evidence that support it! This is however circumstantial as you very well know.

Do not play games with me, do not change my words!



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger


Comparing a secret society with ties to the old mystery schools of Egypt and Sumer with a modern privately or publicly owned corporation goes to show your ignorance in this matter.


Then you said:


And how lunatic the rest of us are, because we are able to see a clear link between the symbolism and teachings of modern freemasonry and the ancient mystery schools.


Which confused me a little. Does this mean you do consider Freemasonry to have a real link with the mysteries of antiquity, or you don't?



You are implying that you for some reason hold the truth in this matter!
Have you advanced to the invisible upper echelon of freemasonry?


There is not an "invisible upper echelon" of Freemasonry. The organization is completely outlined in the fraternity's Ancient Constitutions.



I do not believe it is, it is a question if freemasonry is being used for evil, and that is very well documented to be the case.


Where exactly is such documentation to be found?



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by Schrödinger
 


by all meens I wont play games with you! So what kind of evidence do you have?
Why dont you get to know some Masons at the local lodge?

Its so funnyhow people get these crazy ideas.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Hello ML, you already know my stance on this


I consider them to have a link to the ancient mystery schools yes, I am not sure what you mean by REAL link!

If we are talking about an unbroken chain of ascension, then no, it does not have a REAL link to modern freemasonry.

ML, you know very well, that you have no way of knowing if there was an upper echelon in freemasonry, because of the way freemasonry is structured it is very easy to compartmentalize the organisation.

And I know you are a humble man, that agrees that no one holds the absolute truth!

Now do you know if there is an upper echelon in your lodge? Probably yes, can you totally refute the existence of an upper echelon, I would say that you can't!

Again, ML you are better at quoting that that, I wrote already, that the evidence was indirect, and circumstantial at least.

If you want to debate it, I suggest you make a new thread for it, I promise that I will compile a list for you and answer in an appropriate thread.





EDIT: Typo

[edit on 9-8-2010 by Schrödinger]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by Schrödinger
 


by all meens I wont play games with you! So what kind of evidence do you have?
Why dont you get to know some Masons at the local lodge?

Its so funnyhow people get these crazy ideas.



Ad Hominem, should be bellow an exalted and enlightened brother out to spread brotherly love shouldn't it?`

You are making so many assumptions, that I really cannot be bothered with you! I leave it up to yourself, to find all these assumptions!



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by Schrödinger
 


Thanks buddy! I now know why there how black balls in the voting box.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger


I consider them to have a link to the ancient mystery schools yes, I am not sure what you mean by REAL link!

If we are talking an unbroken chain of ascension, then now, it does not have a REAL link to modern freemasonry.


Ok, just wanted to clarify. If you're saying that Freemasonry probably doesn't have a direct lineal link, but has a philosophical one instead, then we probably agree.


ML, you know very well, that you have no way of knowing if there was an upper echelon in freemasonry, because of the way freemasonry is structured it is very easy to compartmentalize the organisation.


Why do you think it would be easy to compartmentalize the fraternity in such a way. It's important to remember that Freemasonry is very old, and rests its entire existence on tradition, which are clearly spelled out in the Ancient Constitutions. In Masonic organization that does not conform to the ancient traditions will lose their recognition from orthodox Freemasonry.



Now do you know if there is an upper echelon in your lodge? Probably yes, can you totally refute the existence of an upper echelon, I would say that you can't!


I guess that depends on how you define "upper echelon". I've served two terms as Master of my Lodge, which means I was the highest ranking officer at the time. For the past 11 years, I've served as Secretary of the Lodge, which, along with the Treasurer, is the Chief Financial Officer. Everything that happens in the Lodge has to go through the Master, and through the books of the Treasurer and Secretary.

Now, quite obviously, there is government within Freemasonry. But this government is clearly defined, and indeed, is chosen by the general membership.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by humbleseeker
reply to post by Schrödinger
 


Thanks buddy! I now know why there how black balls in the voting box.


I am not a native English speaker, that made absolutely no sense to me!

You know why there how black balls?

Perhaps I can educate you, what part about my response didn't you understand?

You are assuming that I haven't met with local freemasonry, or that I haven't been a member myself, you are also assuming that I have done no research into this!



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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Well iam sorry and apologize. No harm done. I truly love to learn more things about the craft. I wish to keep peace and harmony umongst brothers.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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If you want to know how and why the masons keep secrets just google the Hollie Greig case that happened in Scotland.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 



ML we are in agreement, I am not talking about a direct link, only a link in philosophy, mysticism and symbolism!

Well in order for this to make any sense! I need to detour a little.
When I am talking about an upper echelon in freemasonry, I am not talking about some hidden upper ranks within the main body of freemasonry, as you say, that would be discovered very quickly.
Instead i theorize that as soon, as you have advanced high enough, that could very well be to the degree you hold, but not a necessity nor does your degree automatically give you access to the upper echelon, as we are both very well aware of the fact, that there are a ton of 33 degree masons out there! You would be invited to another secret society, and this invitation would not be a public or an official invitation.
You now hold a dual membership, and as I know you know, this is already very common in freemasonry, we have Freemasons such as yourself, that hold degrees in the blue lodge, Scottish rite and if my memory serves me right, you also have degrees in the York rite?

This kind of compartmentalization would be much easier to work with.
We have all these different secret societies, from the lower levels (degrees) and from the outside, it looks very impossible for all these to have some thought of connection, but when you dig in, and educate yourself about the teachings and symbolism behind all this, you can see a much clearer picture.




[edit on 9-8-2010 by Schrödinger]



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


It is cool to be on a forum with a brother of your knowledge. I have only been a Master Mason for a year now and I am seeking the East. So forgive me if I may be ignorant about the craft since my level of education is at about the junior deacon level.



posted on Aug, 9 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
Greetings network dude!
You are implying that you for some reason hold the truth in this matter!
Have you advanced to the invisible upper echelon of freemasonry?

no more than any mason who attends regular meetings. I have attained the highest level I can at this time, and have learned some of what masonry has to offer. I have also learned that I may not ever know all there is to know about masonry, as there is more information than I could have imagined available.

I know many people who you would assume to be at the inter portico of masonry. I have no reason to believe that anyone is holding information form me. However, not being a 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason, I can't speak for them. So for me to say anything as fact about that position would be disingenuous. Much like someone who isn't even a mason presenting the same information.


It is not a question if freemasonry is evil.
I do not believe it is, it is a question if freemasonry is being used for evil, and that is very well documented to be the case.
No direct evidence of course, but plenty of indirect evidence, that you of course will try to refute with the argument, that the person behind the evil act, might be a Freemason, but he was acting against the will and without the main body of freemasonry knowing anything about it.


This old argument seems to never die. Yes, there have been men who were Freemasons who did bad things. I'd wager a lot fewer masons are on that list than non masons. Mainly because masons must be men of good report and well recommended before even becoming Entered Apprentices. So you would have a better chance of having a good man who is a mason then one who is not.


You will continue to argument; that there are no official coherence between the different lodges, and societies. And that organisations such as skulls and bones, Bilderberg and bohemian groove etc. are independent organisations! That have no interaction with one another!


I will tell you and anyone else that the only groups that interact with masonry at the lodge level are groups that are masonic in nature. The grove, skull and bones, Bilderberg, ect.... are not masonic and have no interaction with masonry that I have ever heard about or seen. Being that I am not in charge of the whole of masonry, I cannot speak for everyone, only for what I have seen personally. The conspiracies you speak of are so far away fro the tenets of masonry, that I feel it would be impossible for those to be true. Once you become a mason, and you learn the secrets, you understand why I not any other brother could "tell" you any of them. It takes almost a year of hard work to become a master mason, and I would say the true secrets are understood within the first three years. They are amazing and life changing, but they are personal. Not earth shattering to anyone but yourself.



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