mosque near ground zero greenlighted

reply to post by sweetliberty

Professor Akbar Ahmed, the Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University's School of International Service, is not surprised by the recent spate of public protests. He spent last year traveling to more than 100 mosques in 75 U.S. cities with a team of researchers, and concluded that opposition to mosques, including some attacks on them, is on the rise.

Same Source

This is the man whose interview I posted a few posts up.

How does this tie together? With what exactly?

The points in this article are the points we have been making all along...that the phobia and hate the protesters are causing is far worse than just letting it be.
That attention and actions and words and sentiments of those opposed are far more likely to breed even more home-grown terrorists.

Based on this photo that went with the story, there were lots of love, peace, freedom, and the earth is home to all of us signs, I wonder if they got the wrong shot here

[edit on 8/6/2010 by ~Lucidity]

Journalist Thomas Friedman and many others including New York's mayor consider the building of a mosque proof of American tolerance that will have positive impact on the Muslim world

From the previously posted

Challenge to Ground Zero Mosque Leaders: Answer 3 Questions

article the above quote speaks volumes imo.
www.newsmax.com...
Friedman and others mentioned talk about "proof of American tolerance".

There are more than 90 mosques in NY alone. I don't recall any intorlance to thoes

There are approx 1,209 mosques in the united States according to this link

Demographic Facts
Mosques in the United States: 1,209
American Muslims associated with a mosque: 2 million
Increase in number of mosques since 1994: 25 percent

www.amp.ghazali.net... The number of mosque attendants
increasing rapidly in America

There are 1,209 mosques in America

On the contrary, I see no intolerance

Mosques have attracted Americans to embrace Islam as on average every mosque witnessed 16 conversions per year. This translates into nearly 20,000 converts nationally, the study said.

wiki.answers.com...'give_him_an_inch_and_he'll_take_a_mile'

(Proverb) Be generous to someone and the person will demand even more.

This could be a counter argument if the opposing party wanted to use the same type of manipulation creating someone/s to become defensive for no true reason at all. In order to create a false image, an illusion. Falsely labeling people.

Facts and reality are much nicer But then why meet in the middle?





[edit on 6-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 6-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Oh. Are you now attempting to attack these Muslims to prove there is no intolerance, bigotry, and hatred being created as a result of this campaign against this project and that their creating even more trouble? Was that your point?

If you want to see some great examples, just read through this thread again, including some of your very own posts. And remember that this is just a very small sampling.

you do know that if the imam wanted to build that mosque
2 miles or farther away.....

Noone would be saying anything at all.

reply to post by neo96


Exactly, and as I have stated earlier, this is how it starts. It has taken progressives only 100 years to screw this country all to hell.

How long will it take radical Islamic extremists to wreak their havoc?

Originally posted by neo96
you do know that if the imam wanted to build that mosque
2 miles or farther away.....

Noone would be saying anything at all.

I cant believe this is being allowed.This is a total outrage!After what happened on 911 and they allow this.If this dont make people mad I dont know what will.This country needs to wake up NOW! This government has got to be showed who runs this country.Im so pissed off I dont even know what else to say!All I can say is people need to get their noses out of the tv and look at whats happening.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by neo96
you do know that if the imam wanted to build that mosque
2 miles or farther away.....

Noone would be saying anything at all.

Originally posted by americandingbat

Originally posted by neo96
you do know that if the imam wanted to build that mosque
2 miles or farther away.....

Noone would be saying anything at all.

www.salon.com...

Apparently there's a muslim prayer area INSIDE the Pentagon. Let's not forget that 184 people were killed there on 9/11. No one's complaining about this "Pentagon mosque" though (or at least this "infiltration").

Are we being hypocrites?

reply to post by muftanan


Hypocrites? What’s that?

Thanks for posting the article on here. I read it and clicked further to see a video Shirley Sharrod and Andrew Breitbart should take a look at. www.salon.com...

The article you posted touched me. This paragraph made me proud to be an American.

“Army Chaplain Abdul-Rasheed Muhammad, the first Muslim chaplain to serve in the military, read a verse from the Koran at the memorial service at the Pentagon on Thursday, exactly one month after the attack. Muhammad, who became a chaplain eight years ago and works at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington, ministered to rescuers in front of the smoldering Pentagon after the attack.”

I’d welcome him into my home for dinner, I’m sure he would have some incredible stories to tell.
The reporter’s job was to keep it one-sided and I’d say Justin Elliott did a good job at it!
Regardless there was some good things we could take from it as with all the other links provided by members on this thread.

Here's a message Neo96 recently posted again.

“***this thread isnt winning or losing a arguement its about voicing your opinions***”

I wanted to share it with you so you know your opinion is respected.

Best Regards,
sweetliberty


[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
Oh. Are you now attempting to attack these Muslims to prove there is no intolerance, bigotry, and hatred being created as a result of this campaign against this project and that their creating even more trouble? Was that your point?

If you want to see some great examples, just read through this thread again, including some of your very own posts. And remember that this is just a very small sampling.

Attack? Luc, that was a far cry from a word such as "attack".
I'd call it posting sources to show not only are we a tolerant nation, but that we are also open minded enough to convert.

If you are referring to the end of my post

wiki.answers.com...'give_him_an_inch_and_he'll_take_a_mile'

(Proverb) Be generous to someone and the person will demand even more.

This could be a counter argument if the opposing party wanted to use the same type of manipulation creating someone/s to become defensive for no true reason at all. In order to create a false image, an illusion. Falsely labeling people.

Facts and reality are much nicer But then why meet in the middle?

The "give him an inch and he'll take a mile"? You call that an attack?
I could give you a hundred examples of that but I won't. That's a tail you can chase Luc. If you ask for examples I will first ask for you to ABC those and post them to me or whoever you choose first.

As for the "creating someone/s to become defensive"? That is not attacking, it's making a simple statement! That paragraph was merely a mirror pointed at the very one's in this world who have to use tactics such as calling someone racists when it's clear they are not. (Before you say anything.... "racists" was an example.)
How about I use you as an example?
Luc, your anti American! What if I went even further to falsely portray you as an anti American in a dozen different ways.....(that would not include American Muslims of course since they are Americans) then I label you an extreme terrorist? This would create negative emotions huh? You would instinctively go on the defense because you know you aren't a terrorist.
You keep hearing me calling you a terrorist and you keep defending yourself because you are not a terrorist.
What I did was I purposefully distracted you. This makes you spend time and energy defending yourself instead of moving forward in this. (For the record, I am not calling you those names in reality
There is a name for it but it escapes me.

What I am trying to say is the defensive card is being played when people who are tolerant are told they aren't tolerant. When I realized I was on the defense in this, I stopped everything.

In referring back to the article and what I posted. All I did was prove we are tolerant people which also proves my point that having to prove my point was a reaction not an action per se.
I don't care what "side" your on. I'm not here to convince you of anything.

I have no desire to force you or anyone to think a certain way and I'm certainly not going to lable them just because they disagree with me. I don't care what side the majority is on, or who is right or who is wrong!

I'm here to get what I can in order to gain a better understanding. I would like to keep an open mind so I can hear the what and why's others have to say.

Fact: We are tolerant people

Fact: The number of mosques being built are large already, and growing.

Fact: We are tolerant...oh, I said that already.....what I should have said was that we are MORE than tolerant people. ATS is proof of that just to give one example.

Fact: This is about more than your tantrums and labeling!
Step up or back off, I would bet your inability to calm down is an embarrassment to the one's you hope to help.

Fact: I have said more than once on this thread that I will post articles from both sides of the fence. This is because I would like to step up, not to mention the most important thing.... I would like to listen to what people have to say, you know, the one's who talk-to and not talk-at, yes, those people.

Fact: This thread was created by someone who wants to know about what both sides of the arguments are. Someone who stepped up and who is clearly a leader. If he wasn't, this thread would have derailed already. If he wasn't a leader he would not have calmed down (enough) to care about the issues


Thank you,
sweetliberty




[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

reply to post by sweetliberty

You left it open to speculation as to how the random stories with no opinion or commentary from you were connected.

Several people asked what you meant by how these stories were connected,and what you were driving at, as I was doing. Since you left that point nebulous and since you apparently and abruptly changed direction in this thread, I was simply asking for clarification.

Don't take the word attack literally. It was meant as attack on a debate point.

But thank you for explaining.

So you are now attempting to show what tolerant nation we are, even if in doing so you are also saying that Muslims are exaggerating their perceptions and realities of growing Islamophobia.

I have no further questions.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


No problem Big fat fuzzy star and thank you for clarifying.

I will look back at the thread to see where I haven’t replied to your question.

There are many reasons for my “apparent and abrupt” change in direction. It was due to chasing my tail trying to seek help, get questions answered (I wasn’t even sure what questions I wanted to ask yet, it was so crazy). I even begged the mods to please help so those who have questions can ask them without being slaughtered for not knowing some of the basics.
There is a genuine desire and need to talk about Muslims (American and not), to discuss wtf we need to discuss without worry of being told we’re off topic or being told were ignorant, Pro or Anti.
I’m the same as I was earlier in this thread, as in seeking understanding and answers.
My change came when I lost a zillion points AGAIN, and because I was ashamed I fell into the trap.
I desperately needed to lean on a thread of this subject for reason I wont discuss.
With so many great minds on ATS who would want to go anywhere else? I took control of myself out of fear of being banned and not having the opportunity to be a part of something with many who are like me who hurt and who had to default into a “label“.
BY GOD I WASN’T GOING TO ALLOW MYSELF TO RUIN THIS FOR THE OTHERS WHO LEANED ON THIS THREAD TOO
It didn‘t matter what side anyone was on anymore, I don’t think it ever did really.
My “fight” or “desire” is no longer about me, my or mine!
It's simply about keeping a door open just in case someone wants to come here and open up.
I saw Neo taking charge and speaking up so I followed suit. The names didn't matter anymore

Thanks.

Originally posted by muftanan
www.salon.com...

Apparently there's a muslim prayer area INSIDE the Pentagon. Let's not forget that 184 people were killed there on 9/11. No one's complaining about this "Pentagon mosque" though (or at least this "infiltration").

Are we being hypocrites?

me hypocrites no...

a mosque inside a federal building ?

when every liberal actively seeks and persues "taking god " out of every government buidling in the country.

your right noone has said anything. being hypocritcal yes comming from the people are taking god out of peoples lives but leaving "allah" alone.

reply to post by muftanan

Originally posted by muftanan
Apparently there's a muslim prayer area INSIDE the Pentagon. Let's not forget that 184 people were killed there on 9/11. No one's complaining about this "Pentagon mosque" though (or at least this "infiltration").

Are we being hypocrites?

Any guesses as to why no one has ever heard about Muslims praying at the Pentagon -- let alone cared? It's almost as if the entire "ground zero mosque" controversy was whipped up out of nothing by a right-wing tabloid and politicians in search of a wedge issue ...

www.salon.com...


My first guess would be because of the secret nature of the Pentagon, but then this would be common knowledge because it is not a military secret.

I am sure there would be a lot of people who cared, but for different reasons of course.

Another concern of mine is the political spin on it. Let's leave politics out of the conversation and try to have a good discussion on the matter this time.

My other concern would be.... what next? Loudspeakers in the hallways echoing the call to prayer throughout the day? Foot washing basins in the bathrooms? There is always something more they would want. Christians would never get these kinds of accommodations. The uproar over the separation of church and state would be deafening, not to mention the huge waste of taxpayer dollars and the distraction that it would cause at the nations defence headquarters.

But my biggest concern will always be the radical nature of Islam. I have read the Qur'an, and as much as I have tried to understand it and wanted to reconcile it to my own beliefs, it is incompatible to my way of thinking.....I will always be an Infidel, according to the Qur'an.

So what do you think muffy?...... Would you care to try and enlighten me and put my concerns to rest?

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by sweetliberty

 

You left it open to speculation as to how the random stories with no opinion or commentary from you were connected.

As I said before, I was adding information regardless of which side it supported.
I was trying to share the news without swaying opinions. I wanted to read what others thought about it along with the other links I posted.

Several people asked what you meant by how these stories were connected,and what you were driving at, as I was doing. Since you left that point nebulous and since you apparently and abruptly changed direction in this thread, I was simply asking for clarification.

Several? I knew of only two. You and that satan guy

I replied to the satan guy and ignored you

Don't take the word attack literally. It was meant as attack on a debate point.

Humm

ok.

But thank you for explaining.

So you are now attempting to show what tolerant nation we are,

I can't answer that question, because of the "now" word. You are insuating that what wasn't there before (in me) is now.
I feel that is your perception of me. I can't answer through your preception, except to say that is how you saw it and see it now.

even if in doing so you are also saying that Muslims are exaggerating their perceptions and realities of growing Islamophobia.

IMO, these two questions aren't questions. The two sentences already have me labeled.
If I think you're a duck, I'm going to call you a duck, I'm not going to bait you. If you have something to say, please say it so I can respond accordingly.

I have no further questions.

Questions are fine.



[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

[edit on 7-8-2010 by sweetliberty]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

So you are now attempting to show what tolerant nation we are, even if in doing so you are also saying that Muslims are exaggerating their perceptions and realities of growing Islamophobia.

I'm going to do the best I can in answering this.

If I speak of our nation, this doesn't include the governmet. Imo, it's the people you are speaking of.

As for "now attempting to show", will Im finding myself at odds with this

Ok, maybe it's me, I don't know but I'm not going to sit here and try to answer this because........

Luc. I feel what you call islamophobia or any other phobia, is a flat out false label.
Protesters for instance, imo, they aren't phobia ANYTHING. They are people who feel that protesting might get their voice heard.
Just as "hate mongers", "neo this" and "neo that" do what they feel they have to do in order to be heard.
It's not phobia crap, it's a need from within. A need to be heard, a need to make something uncomfortable (for lack of a better word) more comfortable.

Thanks

Ground Zero Imam Heading to Saudi Arabia, UAE …

pajamasmedia.com...

Fund raising?

www.forbes.com...

At the State Department, which presumably will be spending taxpayer money on Rauf's tour,

The state department?

HUH?

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae

I replied to your post and said....

Originally posted by MY2Commoncentsworth
I understand your point, but my point is not crazy either. Its not about religious freedom, no one is taking that away from Muslims.

and you replied....

Originally posted by Adevoc Satnae
Yes they are. They specifically oppose this house of worship because of the religion, not because it is a house of worship. If it were a Christian church going up, who would be protesting it?

and I said....

It's about common courtesy, civility, being cordial and polite, and not insulting the victims families.

and then you said....

What country do you think this is? Someone is always going to be upset by someone else. Oh well, too bad, so sad.

Well by your own words in your very next sentence.....Someone... will always be upset and protest, so why even bother to ask that question?

You know, I gotta tell you,......when I squint my eyes and stare at your avatar, it looks just like a Skunk.

Did you ever notice that?

edited to add.... Woof!!!!!!!

[edit on 7-8-2010 by MY2Commoncentsworth]