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posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Like me my accountant and tax lawyer are very good at their jobs. I trust their opinions. Their projections, and highly qualified opinions pointed to an ever increasing social debt load, with more and more government policies which would strangle business growth. Coupled with the continuing economic slowdown what reasonable person in a posistion to do so would not look to the welfare of his family first. When your own accountant and lawyer, (both good friends) are telling you its time to get out and they themselves are making preperations to do the same, I take their advice seriously.


You sound more like an angry child than a competent businessman. You claim that economic doom and gloom lies ahead, yet you willingly close a profitable buinsess that you admit has no debt. Selling this business would have gained you some profit, but instead of acting rationally you take your ball and go home.

Sorry I just don't buy anything you're saying. Oh and your sig quote from an admitted racist pretty much seals the case.




posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:50 AM
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Wow, so many liberal airheads on here attacking this guy.

let me get this right. You think just because this guy employs 187 people, it's his civic and moral duty to continue to do so? He's somehow a bad person for shutting down his business?

Let me be clear to you all as well - you have to pay the expenses of the business BEFORE you can make a profit. BEFORE. Those expenses include SALARIES for your employees.

Aside from that, he has to make a livign as well. Sure, he did well in the past, but how is he doing now? It sounds to me like he's making less and less, and he got out before the government started eating into HIS assets.

For all you liberal vapor-brains out there, go out and do what this guy did for the past however many years, and then post your two cents. I have a feeling you'd be flagging and starring instead.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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Someone will fill the niche in the marketplace. I see many conservatives retiring and blaming it on the liberal government. They were going to retire anyway. The next business owner will profit and hire many. Out with the old and in with the new. It is not socialism, just capitalist government done without the tax breaks for the wealthy. It is a good thing.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by earthdude]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Whiffer Nippets
Nope. Sorry. I ran this by an accountant. I am correct.

And if he claims to have enough "income" to support his supposed lifestyle - yeah - he ain't going in no 'poor bracket'.

Besides which - he stated himself that his accountants do not know what their doing.

This story is nothing but a fantasy built to Propagandize against so called "Socialists".

Again, it's an interesting story - but there are far too many holes in it.

If you're going to try and float BS it actually helps if you know what you are talking about.

That's his biggest mistake - he knows no details. Anyone with a supposedly mid sized and successful business who's been doing it for 30 years has absolutely got to know some basics of accounting. They would not say - "my accountants set it up in such a way" - he would use more detail.

And - he's liquidating this biz due to the upcoming health care plan? Yeah - that's how many years off? And yes a competent accountant would know how to work with this.

Who in the heck is going to listen to an "accountant" who claims they don't know what to do and they have no data?

Right. That's exactly what I'd do. Liquidate my biz because my accountant says they have no data and don't know what to do. Sure.

This story is pure fiction.








Any accountant and tax lawyer that cannot setup a retirement plan in which income is protected from taxes, and assets are structured to ensure a steady stream of income that will legally fall below the threshold for reciept of ss monies, is incompetent.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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Regardless of whether the OP is blowing hot air or not it's an important discussion. I'm willing to take what he says at face value because I personally know two business owners in the process of making similar decisions. One is currently still profitable and looking to sell. He has a couple of interested buyers but they can't get the financing. The other could change some numbers and sign his name to the OP. The 1099 issue that was quietly snuck into the health care bill was the straw that broke the camels back for him. Though he could remain slightly profitable, it wouldn't be profitable enough to make the stress and long hours worth it. Between the two it's probably gonna cost around 125 jobs in the area.

A business that fails because of a piss poor economy is one thing. Businesses that fail because of added expenses due to government mandate on top of a piss poor economy are another story.

I haven't seen anyone who has a good handle on how some of the pleasant little surprises in the healthcare bill are going to affect their bottom line.

Oh and OP the Supreme Court has already ruled that a contract does not exist between you and the government on what you've paid in to social security. It's simply a tax tied to a political promise.

Wikipedia-Flemming v Nestor


The Court ruled that no such contract exists, and that there is no contractual right to receive Social Security payments. Payments due under Social Security are not “property” rights and are not protected by the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The interest of a beneficiary of Social Security is protected only by the Due Process Clause.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


Yea. It's funny how Brackets work. Just lower it one dollar bellow the max and get the benefits. Why even have brackets?

Honestly I see no reason to work for anything but what I enjoy. If I'm going to be a debt slave, I'm going to enjoy it. And hell, maybe I'll be so good I will get rich. Then I will become part of the system and educate the fail-tards about their system.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


one more reponse. find me someone, anyone that can project for me the cost of just the regulations we know about in the Obama care bill. Even the writers of the bill have no idea the the cost to businesses of this mess.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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Well, goody, goody for you.

Enjoy all your money on your 200 acre ranch while your former employees look for work. I notice that your revulsion of socialism does not extend to refusing your social security benefits, which if you made over 100k, you did not pay into the system after that. Nor do you shun gov't subsidies. Sort of a cafeteria libertarian?

I went into a bakery the other day. It was new to me. I said, How long have you been in business? He said a year. I said I never heard of you until recently. He said he did not advertise, because then he got more business than he and his wife could handle, and he did not want to hire anyone because he would have to pay more in taxes. (Pissed me off, as make my living by creating advertising.) Then he began whining about taxes and bad government. By that point, I was losing my appetite for the baked goods. Nonetheless, I bought a couple eclairs. But will never go back, ever.

Now, down the street a mile or two, is another new bakery. The lady who runs it employs several young people, and the place is full of life and creativity. They are doing great.

A year from now, the selfish man and wife will have moved on, and the other new bakery will still be there, supported by the community. This is how it rolls in a small town here.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Funny how a guy with 187 employees considers himself a "small business". To me, a small business has less than 50 employees, otherwise it's a mid-size. But go look up the Small Business Administration's definitions of small: by most standards, what they define as small is pretty large, enabling very wealthy people to get government handouts to support their "small business". And guess what? If you are a true small business, a Mom & Pop (i.e., a 2-person business), forget about getting a loan from the SBA, you're too small to bother with.

Another thing that really bugs me about conservatives who whine about redistributing wealth is that they fail to acknowledge that the whole history of the country is built upon redistributing the wealth of the tribes to the white majority: from the very beginning, settlers coveted the farms and towns of the First Peoples' and took them by force.

The farms of the Iriquois and Alquonquins in the northeast, Cherokee and Choctaw of the southeast, lands and herds of the Plains, the forests and mineral wealth of northwest...the list is endless. The settlers didn't do the hard part, they merely murdered those who did and took the fruits of their labor.

In a similar way, the same is done today when corporations and mid-size businesses murder small ones by manipulating credit markets so they can take over a patent, process, or market niche that was developed by a true small business for a fraction of what it is actually worth; this is known as savvy business sense.

Tell me, OP, what did your business actually do? Government contracts perhaps?

No good business ever shut it's doors due to tax policies unless they were specifically targeted to put them out of business. My bet is that your company benefitted from the non-regulatory/nepotistic/buddy system climate of the Bush years and now when there is at least a little enforcement of some of the regs, you can't compete. Or maybe it's just that this administration isn't buying what you sell, and the actual marketplace has no use for your product.

It isn't socialism that is ruining the country, it's fascism. Fat unproductive corporations playing gambling games instead of producing physically useful products. It is the failure of the corporate/capitalist class that is ruining this country; they want guarantees of profits before they will invest anything, then they use other peoples' money when they do. They don't innovate, they buy out other peoples' ideas and innovations. The lack any kind of vision to lead anyone where, their vison and goal is merely "MORE MONEY! NO TAXES". Yeah, that's a really great vision to lead the nation into the future.

Taxes are not inherently bad and are utterly necessary for a modern state. You want zero taxes and no government control? Go live in Somalia. That's what weak government and no taxes gets you.

I've said before and I'll say it again: your sorry butt doesn't belong here since you don't feel any empathy for your fellow citizens and don't want to repay your debt for what you've taken from the country and try to leave it in better condition than what you found it in.

Change your attitude or get the hell out.

You aren't welcome in my country, the one I served, protected, contributed to, and fight for every day of my life. I'm sick and tired of the takers and parasites like yourself whining about having to pay taxes while accepting tax breaks and subsidies, while poor people pay a far larger proportionate share to support ingrates like you, and get far less for it.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by apacheman]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:13 PM
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They will confiscate 7/8 of your land. They will freeze your assets, actually take them. Laugh they will at your french sense of entitlement. Those you have canned are the same ones you will ask for help one day. The question is not if but when. Whatever you resist persists and you have identified yourself like Hansel and Gretel leaving crumbs for the wolves to find you. You should have dealt with that harassment issue some time ago with a little more empathy. Motorcycles need to be avoided at all cost...................................



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:20 PM
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I suspect the OP is simply sharing a sentiment. It is likely factually untrue. I've seen similar statements on the net for several years. However, I share the sentiment. As both Socrates and Machiavelli said, democracy ends in tyranny. Witness the democracies in both Germany and Italy just prior to WWII.

"The problem with socialism," said Margaret Thatcher, "is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

Luckily, just like the OP claims, I've been able to escape, though thankfully I did not place anyone else in jeopardy by doing so.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by golddustgecko
 


But you are guessing about it. What if the other bakery goes the way of the selfish one? You do not know.

As to socialist program entitlement, its called taking advantage of a stupid government.

Welcome to life. People want money. If more money can be brought about without work and on entitlement programs, average people will quit and get entitlements.

If you do not like it, well gee, guess that means sharing is not caring and capitalism rules again.

I'm a socialist. But I am more for socialism encouraging capitalistic competition and reject current social tendencies of redistribution of wealth to unfit idiots. I am for redistribution of wealth that encourages competition and growth. Rather than fail-bailout, why not invest in new technology companies?

I told this to another lad yesterday:



Teleport back to 2009 January. Lets Imagine Obama takes a part of what he's spent: 4 trillion dollars. Now lets say we spent 10 million to higher 5 think tanks made of random people a told them to select 20 companies, like Tesla car, or other innovation companies. We split it up and give each company 190 billion dollars of what's left of the 4 trill. Banks invest, companies succeed, new jobs, no bailouts, and still 9 billion to spare.

Those inovational companies replace the dying, now dead corporations we bailed out. Their facilities are bought by these next-gen corporations, and new jobs become available to new companies. We get oil independence from Cars like Tesla Car inc, we get exports of such cars, we have manufacturing come back to America, and essentially new technology and a new world power called the US.

But no. We did not do this. We bailed out failing companies that failed us again. sadface.

Lets go back further, to the Panic of 1907. Same thing now. The federal reserve was created to try and stop it. However, all that did was cause overproduction, and the great depression. It is all happening again. We are once again in 1907-1909. We should not repeat past mistakes. Investing in these companies would skip 20 years worth of repeating history.

There's just one problem, of course. Over production. But luckily for us, we are in a different global market than then. So over consumption would not be a problem with 2 billion oil dependent people in India and China.

What we have done is only make these problems involve more money, not stop them. There will be a great depression in a few years, just as the 1907 crisis lead to it.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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For those who have asked I'm including a link for a health insurance subsidy calculator to give you some idea of what you might expect under the new health insurance laws. I'm guessing many of you who are employed but not making a living wage will be eligible for a subsidy. I am sorry that we got such a watered down health care reform that much of the working class will soon be in the category of being subsidised and mandated into but this is what is going down.

I don't know how accurate or biased this calculator is but I think you will get some idea of how the subsidized health insurance plan might work. A lot of you will be surprised to see that you qualify.

I believe we should have all gotten nationalised healthcare or Medicare for all. This watered down bill we got creates another class designation for working people who will be trashed as welfare recipients and parasites by people like the OP of this thread.

Theoretically this is how the subsidies might affect you.

healthreform.kff.org...



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by Phedreus
 


Phedreus, welcome to Galt's Gulch man. Expect the looters to find every guilt-scheme under the sun to try to re-engage your talent and toil for their benefit.

Chase your passions, deal with others who also respect hard work and excellence, and if you feel so moved- shake the hand of the starving looter as his eyes begin to dull and sink.

Welcome to Galt's Gulch!



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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I don't disagree with the OP on some points.

But, still, what you have done is pretty selfish. Talk as fancy and educated as you want, it's still selfish. People need jobs right now, and you just left the game without a fight.

You have justified your actions by saying that everything is going in the crapper anyway. How do you know that for sure? Are all of us business men just supposed to throw in the towel?

We can't take back this country by putting people on the street. When you let those people go, those people lost an income. Do you have any sense of responsibility for that? It doesn't sound like it.

You could have sold off the business in such a way that it would have continued, and people would have kept their jobs. But, someone else could have owned it, if you didn't want to run it anymore. I'm not saying people can't retire, but you did this in a way that was destructive to over a hundred employees, and benefited you, and only a tiny group of people.

Again, people need work now. Because of all the fear mongering, businesses are folding, and it's tough to find a job sometimes these days. People need income, not tomorrow, not years from now, right now. It doesn't matter how crooked the government is, people still need to eat.

I hate parts of our government system, but I'm not about to throw in the towel. I've got people to help, things to do. I would like to be able to give employment to people who need it. Those who are willing to work. I dislike the fact that people abuse the welfare system myself, who could be out working or running their own little business or big business.

It's going to take people of action to turn this country around. People who aren't afraid to speak out against the government. Who aren't afraid to bring together a peaceful protest, a petition, etc. People who aren't afraid to take criminal elements out of power. People who will flourish and prosper, despite any suppression.

I believe business can work, and it will work. You want to do something about the criminal elements, the suppressive elements? Then for one thing, do well, make your business grow, prosper. Show them. And if your government dislikes people succeeding and doing well, then show them where the door is.

Troy



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by sakokrap
 

Good riddance Galt's Gulch fantacists. Contrary to your opinions and Randian beliefs there are still plenty of good, productive, creative and intelligent people to take your place. If anything there are hundreds of thousands qualified, motivated and overqualified who are still willing to participate, strive to make a better world, better laws and a work for sustainable businesses to take your place.

Oh, I will say the OP is certainly entitled to enjoy the SS paid into and to benefit from the trust and bond created between generations. Do they wish the trust to be fulfilled for future generations or will they just take theirs and turn their back on that trust in the future? Just wondering how far this philosophy goes in this case.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by golddustgecko
I went into a bakery the other day. It was new to me. I said, How long have you been in business? He said a year. I said I never heard of you until recently. He said he did not advertise, because then he got more business than he and his wife could handle, and he did not want to hire anyone because he would have to pay more in taxes. (Pissed me off, as make my living by creating advertising.) Then he began whining about taxes and bad government. By that point, I was losing my appetite for the baked goods. Nonetheless, I bought a couple eclairs. But will never go back, ever.

Now, down the street a mile or two, is another new bakery. The lady who runs it employs several young people, and the place is full of life and creativity. They are doing great.

A year from now, the selfish man and wife will have moved on, and the other new bakery will still be there, supported by the community. This is how it rolls in a small town here.

To each their own. Cause-and-effect says yes, the more social business will grow and be more successful and profitable. But maybe the mom-and-pop don't want to be too successful; just want to have a quiet life and support it with their business. I don't understand the hate.

One of the problems with our society is that we're all up in each other's faces, trying to tell each other how to live their lives. This breeds conflict, resentment, hate.

Let each find his own way. No one owes you anything.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by NewlyAwakened]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by krunchy

You sound more like an angry child than a competent businessman. You claim that economic doom and gloom lies ahead, yet you willingly close a profitable buinsess that you admit has no debt. Selling this business would have gained you some profit, but instead of acting rationally you take your ball and go home.

Sorry I just don't buy anything you're saying. Oh and your sig quote from an admitted racist pretty much seals the case.


Krunchy, I find it your comment haunting (among others). Why would you resort to (nearly so) name calling when you disagree with how someone wants to use their creations/resource/wealth? Really, what does it have anything to do with you (or anyone else for that matter)?

...unless... Unless there is an implied stake in someone else's resource (either imagined or actual). I suspect under these same circumstances, you (and others holding this same communistic premise) also will feel compelled to force physical exercise upon obese people, put together commissions to authorize some to drink and smoke and deny others. For you, as a "taxpayer" have a stake in their health, no?

Further, what does it matter if someone is a devout racist, catholic, christian, muslim, ufologist, librarian or devil worshiper? By your casting a shadow upon someone's personal beliefs on an unrelated matter, you're helping to create an atmosphere of harassment, prejudice and abuse. Why in the world would you bring up someone's beliefs about cars when the topic is mashed potatoes?

unless... unless your emotive response to the choices of this free and sovereign man has overran your logical functions. Perhaps you're working with others within the Delphi to build feigned and silent consensus that this man is a bad person in the sovereign free choices he makes... Hmm....

"You think that's air you're breathing Neo"?

May I inquire with those who believe this man's choices were "bad form" in one way or another: Why would anyone in their right mind do anything to benefit a system of leeches, control, tyranny and forge-casted lies upon lies upon lies (like that of an onion)? Why???!



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisCrikey

Good riddance Galt's Gulch fantacists. Contrary to your opinions and Randian beliefs there are still plenty of good, productive, creative and intelligent people to take your place. If anything there are hundreds of thousands qualified, motivated and overqualified who are still willing to participate, strive to make a better world, better laws and a work for sustainable businesses to take your place.


Funny you say that Chris... Europe said the same thing for hundreds of years as the bright, motivated and innovative shoved off and moved to the the USA...

I myself fully agree with you. There are plenty to take the place of those rescinding their consent to a diabolical system- just look at the wonderful growth seen within the Nazi party as they took ahold! Unfortunately, you and I would disagree in the value these replacements have. I see them as eager slaves, resolute to bring happiness to their masters, and I believe you'd see them as brothers and sisters toiling for the benefit of your people.



Oh, I will say the OP is certainly entitled to enjoy the SS paid into and to benefit from the trust and bond created between generations. Do they wish the trust to be fulfilled for future generations or will they just take theirs and turn their back on that trust in the future? Just wondering how far this philosophy goes in this case.


I have no trust in any "generation" myself. I expect nothing from them, nor am I willing to be forced to be plundered for them.

SS is the greatest of diabolical multi-generational credit card schemes. When it comes time to start paying the bill, I hope you aren't too bitter about those other "generation"s you put your trust into.

Regarding the OP, I sincerely hope he didn't invest in the SS scheme, but if he did, I would hope that he (along with everyone else) immediately got their funds remitted (with interest- just as the Fed Res to print up the difference ;-).



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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I am so surprised at the post, that so many here are angry at the OP instead of the government, he employed people for thirty years, that's quite a contribution.



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