It's really sad how some people here refuse to deal in facts.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


If we knew what was fact and what wasn't we wouldnt have a need for ATS discussions so we can sort thru everything and try to find the truth. Just because someone says something is fact, doesn't make it so!

reply to post by myra017


The people on the ground down there are the most reliable source for getting the truth. Thank you so much for that information. Hydrogen sulfide field. Wow. I've just been reading up on H2S and how toxic it is

Those poor people down there. It is unimaginable. My heart really goes out to them. and I feel so angry at how little help and support they are being given.

I don't know how all this will end, but a lot of people in a lot of high positions will have a lot of very serious questions to answer at some point.

Do you know if the H2S would also explain the white spots which have been appearing on plants down in that region?

These IDIOTS, there just aren't words to express how I feel about what they are doing.

The OP posted two posts and split the scene..... He/she made the claim that “some people here refuse to deal in facts” I’m still waiting for him to list those “facts…people here refuse to deal in…”

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


BS .

It is a Fact there were 3 leaks on the BOP. BP sealed ONE of them Only. No one has talked about the other TWO leaks.. yet CNN and BP says there is no oil leaking into the Gulf.

So.. tell me how I'm not right??

Originally posted by soleprobe
The OP posted two posts and split the scene..... He/she made the claim that “some people here refuse to deal in facts” I’m still waiting for him to list those “facts…people here refuse to deal in…”

perhaps i am wrong, but it would appear the OP is not saying he or she knows what the 'facts' are, but is instead complaining about people who post things as "FACT" with no evidence and attack others who challenge said 'facts'.

that is my understanding. it does not appear he is claiming to know what the 'facts' are, which is kinda the point.

edited to add: personally, i take solace in the 'fact' that this thread received, at this point, over thirty flags and oodles of stars.

it would appear many others are tired of the drama queens, as well.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by justadood]

reply to post by CREAM

All possibilities should be explored

Oh really?

So, there's the possibility that it didnt really happen and you're just imagining it.

There's also the possibility that T-Rex and his friend Brontosaurus did it.

Ya know, i heard the big fat pink elephant may have had a hand it on it...we should investigate that as well.

Originally posted by wcitizen
You are stating this as a fact, when, in fact (lol!), it is simply your opinion, which some people will agree with and others will not.

I'm sorry, where did I state a fact? Oh thats right I didn't.

I just said there is no reason to believe a theory is a fact before they are proven to be. You can entertain the idea that the theory is a fact, but claiming and believing a theory is a fact is completly and utterly stupid.

Here is a theory... "ATS is full of psychopaths". Now, should I go an believe that theory is a fact before it is proven? No.

If you want to believe theories are facts, then go for it, just know that you will be made a fool when the theory turns out not to be a fact.

Don't you see? Oh what am I kidding, you don't.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Your opinion seems to be based on the premise that those who do choose to believe certain theories, and see them as fact, need an excuse for doing so. And you imply that this (your opinion) is a fact - for everyone, which is blatantly, dare I say it, -- factually inaccurate.

Once again, where did I imply my opinion was fact? I didn't. You need to learn how to read.

I have to ask, why would anyone believe a theory is a fact with no reason for doing so? That is one of the most stupid things anyone could do. There has to be at least one reason to believe a theory is a fact... how else would you arive at the conclusion?

Basically, you are not denying ignorance, you are supporting it. What a shame, and a waste of life.

A theory is a theory. It will never be a fact until the theory is proven to be true. This is not my opinion, this is fact.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Only theories???

No not only theories. I just didn't want to list everything ATS should be used for. I was talking about theories, nothing else.

I will list one thing it shouldn't be used for; spreading lies as truth.

Going around and spreading theories like they are fact increases the chances of idiots spreading lies as truth.

Originally posted by wcitizen
How about an exchange of information or FACTS?

Yes ATS should be used for that too, I thought that was obvious and didn't need to be stated.

Originally posted by wcitizen
A sharing of news?

Yes. Another thing that I thought was obvious and didn't need to be stated.

Originally posted by wcitizen
A comparison of news on a given topic? An exploration of a topic? A discussion on FACTS? A sharing of experience?? A source of inspiration?? A tool for learning???

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Where are you going with this? This is all obvious and didn't need to be stated by me.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Once again, you state your own (in this case very limited) personal, subjective, ill thought through OPINION as FACT, which it clearly is not.

Again you accuse me of stating something as fact, when I clearly only stated my opinion. Then you get your panties tied in a knot over your own mistake and then insult me because you made a stupid reading comprehension error.

You are a prime example of the problem I was talking about earlier. You have a theory that I was stating a fact, and believed your theory was correct, now you look like a fool because I never said what I said was a fact.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Then because YOU believe it is a fact, you want to IMPOSE this subjective, narrow, ill thought through, personal OPINION on everyone else on this site. This is sloppy thinking and sloppy logic.

Telling someone to not treat a theory as fact until it is proven is probably the most wise and logical things someone can do. Only fools think theories are facts.

out of room.. continued on next post...

Originally posted by justadood
perhaps i am wrong, but it would appear the OP is not saying he or she knows what the 'facts' are, but is instead complaining about people who post things as "FACT" with no evidence and attack others who challenge said 'facts'.

That seems to be a better way for me to interpret it.... I may not know for sure.... the OP appears to have split for good.

Originally posted by justadood
it would appear many others are tired of the drama queens, as well.

Seems many of these "drama queens" hoped for the worst.. they should be patient... when the worst comes they'll be too frightened to fear monger.

Originally posted by wcitizen
What is the difference between you and those you criticise?

I didn't criticise anyone. I just said that it is pretty dumb to think a theory is a fact. Theories will never be facts until they are proven to be true. To believe a theory is a fact before it is proven is just ignorant and stupid on multiple levels.

Originally posted by wcitizen
You criticise them for taking a theory as fact, whilst at the same time, you state your personal (restricted) opinion (which is, after all, only a theory) as fact.

No, I did not state anything was a fact.

What you did was made a really stupid reading comprehension error, and you reacted off of your own error, and accused me of something I didn't do based on your own error.

You had a theory that I stated something as a fact, then you believed that theory before finding any type of proof. Now you look like a fool because you made such a stupid mistake that I was actually teaching you not to make.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Now, as has been suggested earlier, why don't you go and look up the word 'hypocrite' ...and while you're there, maybe also look up the word 'fact'

Oh my this is toooo funny. I think you need to look up the word fact. Then go back and point out where I stated something as a fact.

Then go look up the word "oblivious".

You people and your errors of logic are just too hilarious. I can't believe I am actually debating someone about believing theories are facts.

Who on Earth thinks theories are facts??? That is sooo dumb..

[edit on 16-7-2010 by NineEleven11]

Originally posted by NineEleven11

Originally posted by wcitizen
What is the difference between you and those you criticise?

Who on Earth thinks theories are facts???

That is sooo dumb..

[edit on 16-7-2010 by NineEleven11]

well, A LOT of people in this sub forum, for one.

segundo

Snikes. All I really know is I live in Florida and have seen the consequences of the Gulf. The sky is always grey here, not the pretty blue I am use to seeing. I see the live feeds of this disaster and damn well know there is more than 1 leak and more than 1 crack in the sea floor. Their is no cement that can fix all that. Cant nuke it cause of the type of stone they hit down to pump that oil will not fuse together. Why the fark do you think they stopped the relief wells 4 foot from completion? Do we need 2 more of them bjtches open and gushing too? Do we need to add a nuclear component to the corexit, methane, oil, sulpher, whatever else? Yea below the water and maybe 50 miles above the water will be a great show to see. If you look at ariel pics the sea that has been effected with the oil looks like red blood. The crap that has washed up in some of Florida beaches looks like boiling water and so much more. It may not be the end of the entire world, but for some I would like to say Lord if your not coming soon, come for me. PERIOD.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


OP

I know people hate these, i hate hate threads but THANKYOU for this one!!!!!

obviously this spill has people looking glim but it seems every event people are let down they cant go out and start murdering Zombies or whatever it seems the doomsdayers want.

Its frustrating to come on here and not see a celebration thread, its frustrating to not be able to think of any progress as positive, and its frustrating having my outlet for intellignet discussions always being on the worst parts of life.

reply to post by zroth


I read your reply before you edited it.

I did not say what I said because your opinion is different than mine. So you are wrong yet again.

I said that because you took a whole group of people (scientists) and you added a stereotype to them. That is basically what racist people do.

I'm done talking to you until you learn how to read without creating illusions of what you think I said in your head, and then reply to those illusions.



[edit on 16-7-2010 by NineEleven11]

reply to post by SaosinEngaged

While taking a course in adolescent psychology, I learned something rather interesting about the brain. Regardless about where you go online, you will always bump into people who cannot understand 'analytical thinking'. It is not something in which every person can develop. However, if you are capable of that form of thinking, you can slowly enhance your abilities while in college.

Why college? It is a rather interesting answer. Since everyone's brain does not fully develop until the age of 18 to 19 years of age (end of puberty), we are incapable of developing analytical thinking prior to those ages. Now, if you do not go to college right after high school, you may never-ever develop the ability to think analytically. During your years in college, your brain gets to exercise through analyzing various forms of data. Other words, you put your new biological attributes into training.

So, when you try to get some people to focus on facts, (convincing people who have not formed analytical thinking), you are stuck with:

(1) Talking to someone until your blue in the face. You will never-ever convince someone who is incapable of thinking analytically to consider facts.
(Similar to: Children & Old People)

(2) Talking to someone who is narrowly focused. Other words, they are so focused on 'one' specific train of thought, and they refuse to look at (and around) the facts for answers.
(Similar to: ADHD)

(3) Talking to someone who believes 'their theories' without facts equals truth. Since these people think they are beyond facts, they will not actually learn the details involved with anything. Facts are beneath them.
(Similar to: Narcissistic)

(4) Talking to someone who cannot understand that most answers are both logical and in plain sight. Majority of these type of individuals take their subject of interest and turn it into a religion, and the only way to obtain the answers are through some complex understanding of patterns.
(Similar to: Schizophrenics)

(5) etc...

Keep in mind that these people are not dumb individuals. Some of them are quite intelligent, but they have never developed the ability to think analytically. It is all about timing and biological training. If people learn to harness and learn analytical thinking, while in a controlled environment (college/late high school), they will be able to analyze, test, and retest facts. If there are gaps and holes in the facts, they will analyze more data to retain more information. Nothing of what they do is based upon emotions.

Unless someone's theories are connected to a reliable source (professionals or literature from a field of study), people who are capable of thinking analytically will not accept anything else as truth.

---

On the other side, some people can over analyze everything; thus, they look too-too deep into something. As a result of not accepting the most rational answers, they get themselves stuck in a massive fact-finding mission. If one piece to the puzzle falls through, they will try to fit another piece into the puzzle. Even though the original hypothesis was faulty, they will never-ever go back and say, "Maybe my thesis and hypothesis is wrong."

---

My theory: If you only accept 'one' answer to a question, you dismiss an opportunity to learn about other possibilities. Never-ever accept 'one' immediate answer without examining all of the possible facts, and don't over analyze and get stuck in an endless fact finding mission.

Personal philosophy is not truth.

Majority of the time the answer everyone is seeking for is boring; thus, the truth hides within the most mundane and predictable.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by airspoon
Your not being paranoid if they really are after you. Moving along, I agree with you about turning everything into a conspiracy as not only being absurd, but also counter-productive.

I hear you airspoon. There's a thread on the board at the moment about Lego and the Illuminati. Need I say more....

IRM :shk:

Originally posted by XxiTzYoMasterxX
I don't believe what everyone on a conspiracy theory website says but when experts start saying there's something amiss or being covered up or say the government is lying to us then that's when I look into it.

When people who consider themselves expert say something, I usually first question the self proclaimed expert's motives. Even though you might be an expert in computer hacking, you are not an expert in the human condition. Get it?

I guess it all comes down to just how far down the Rabbit Hole people are willing to go. As the days pass by it seems it only gets deeper and deeper...

reply to post by soleprobe

Originally posted by soleprobe
reply to post by mothershipzeta

 

So the definition of “scientific theory” (explanations agreed upon by a group of scientists) is more than “just a theory”. So now any small click of paid-off scientists (like climate scientists) can have “explanations” [that] are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them”. This now becomes “scientific theory”, equivalent to fact (truth), no longer “just a theory”.

In other words if a certain group of scientists believe that their explanations are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter those explanations, it now becomes, not just theory, but “scientific theory”. And if you put the word “scientific” in front of theory it is no longer “just a theory” but a “scientific theory” which is to be taken as fact because this "definition" of “scientific theory” says so.

This is all just a twisting of the meaning of words in order to give a select body of individuals (scientists) a monopoly on truth. So now a theory presented by a select group of “scientists” (little truth gods) must be deemed equivalent to fact (truth). Why, because the definition says so? And the proof that it’s fact is because it is considered “scientific theory” which now means “fact.”

So now, conveniently, the “theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory" it’s factual because it’s a “scientific theory” presented by the scientists (little truth gods). And because the definition of “scientific theory” is now fact (truth), the word of the scientist now must be accepted by the ignorant masses as truth. The scientists are the truth gods of the New Age.

Well you can keep your “scientific” definition of “theory” and I'll continue to consider all theory, "just a theory."

Is there anyone who can list some "facts" regarding this event, not “scientific theory” but “facts”?

Agree - general consensus has now been elevated to fact without the true scientific method of experimentation and observation. Can you say Peer Pressure ?

Peace


edit spelling

[edit on 17-7-2010 by FearNoEvil]

I have been searching for the truth all my life. I have finally found clarity in my search. I now know everything we know is truly a lie. I find it funny facts are what is the eye of the beholder. There is facts that GOD exists and others believe GOD doesn't exist no matter what evidence you have. Just showing you an example about facts.

AGREE TOTALLY, IM Amazed some DH hasnt said all this is a false flag