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It's really sad how some people here refuse to deal in facts.

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posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 04:43 AM
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reply to post by Perseus Apex
 


One more for the scOr.:

I could have heard a "Awesome dude", in the background. www.youtube.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">5.....then the Oh.....hah


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 05:24 AM
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One persons facts is another persons fiction, to others the truth sits somewhere in-between and to the rest the truth is outside of the known boundaries completely.

This place needs to stray from what would be undeniable documented facts to actually work otherwise there would be 2 boards, 1 would be a board based on nothing but 100% facts that nobody could argue with and the other would be conspiracy theories, speculation and discussion, Guess which would be the most popular, that's why you are in a site dedicated to the latter.

Even I am guilty of calling out what I feel is utter nonsense, but then what I believe to be nonsense is believed by others to be true (see my opening line).
If there was a rule to only post things that had the utter truth and undeniable facts then this place would be pretty empty.

That's kind of the point really.
Do as I do, Take everything with a pinch of salt, be aware that people don't share your side on things regardless of how preposterous it may seem and just be aware of people's wish to come here for a twisted sometimes depressing and morbid look on the world around us...and beyond.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by keepithush]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 06:02 AM
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Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
With a disaster as horrible is this, it greatly irritates me how hyperbolic many posters have become.

Thinking everything is a lie, everything is a cover up, the world is ending in a methane explosion of fiery doom and pain, an earthquake that's going to crack the earth in two and pop open like an easter egg...

Enough already.

Stop letting wild speculation get the best of you. Deal with the facts. Don't let the opinion of some random "expert" take hold of you and allow you to propogate that opinion as fact. It's really sad the extent to which that happens here on this board.



Your entire argument is flawed. You say - stick to the 'facts'. There are no facts, there is no truth - each person has to evaluate all incoming information, and use their judgment as to what it all means.

You talk as if there is a correct, and incorrect - you simply want someone in authority, or the TV or whatever to tell you how it is - so you can stop thinking.

All we can do is get as much information as we can, all that 'wild speculation' you talk about, is no more wild than any other. People should most definitely put their theories out there - that doesn't mean I think they are credible or realistic - but to Deny Ignorance is to embrace all speculation, and all information sources - no matter how obscure.

If you are looking for the truth, you will find it - because truth is a personal thing, and you will chose to 'believe' a certain view. When you do, you shut down all other possibility.

I might agree that people are putting forward some highly improbable theories, that doesn't make them wrong - nor does it make them invalid.

People should speculate - in all that theorizing, some meaning will be derived - and understanding will be increased.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by LookingIn
reply to post by Deuteronomy 23:13
 




Science can not always be trusted. Scientist will say anything for a grant. People can be wrong and more often than not they are; even the smartest and strongest among us.

If you were to group people by their vocation, scientists and engineers would be the most dishonest group. At court trials equally credentialed 'experts' are often at odds. Scientific opinion is for sale to the highest bidder. It's easy to lie to people about a subject when mathematics are involved. (How many of you have a degree in math? I do btw)

Science can not disprove the proposition that anything is possible.

Scientists are always servants and never masters. Science has no morality nor ethics.

Science is a tool and as such is limited in scope and applicability. Science is not un-assailable truth.

Like religion science if often used to separate a person from their common sense. Science and superstition are 2 sides of the same coin. If you really want to flim flam somebody there are 2 routes to go: science and superstition.

Relying on 'expert testimony' in order to form one's opinions means one doesn't really know what they are talking about.

The sun rises in the east and 2+2=4. Outside of this the truth is up for grabs.


Wow, that's quite the "drive by shooting" on science. How about you try this one on for size:


Religion can not always be trusted. Evangelists will say anything to gain a follower. People can be wrong and more often than not they are; even the smartest and strongest among us.

If you were to group people by their vocation, priests, preachers, rabbis and imams would be the most dishonest group. At court trials equally credentialed theologians are often at odds. Religious opinion is available from a variety of sects and cults within Christianity and other organized religions. It's easy to lie to people about a subject when no credible evidence is involved.

Religion can not prove the proposition that anything is possible.

Priests and reverends are always servants and never masters. Religion has no morality nor ethics, only a belief in their own dictums of absolute right and wrong.

Religion is a tool and as such is limited in scope and applicability. Religion is not un-assailable truth.

Religion is often used to separate a person from their common sense. Religion and superstition are 2 sides of the same coin. If you really want to flim flam somebody there are 2 routes to go: Religion and superstition.

Relying on theological analysis in order to form one's opinions means one doesn't really know what they are talking about.

The bible was written a long time ago and translated and interpreted and re-written from ancient scripts and oral tradition time and time again. Outside of this the truth is up for grabs.


[edit for typo]


[edit on 16-7-2010 by LookingIn]


You are mocking me aren't you?! Well, that's okay. I am just glad that you read my post. I like you! I take it you agree with my statement for the most part. It is such a sad thing that we as people can not take each other at our word.

I mostly agree with your post. You were a little over the top. I am not religious. I am wondering when is theological opinion ever needed in court?

And I do disagree that priests, etc are more dishonest than S and E's. Priests, etc. may be more deluded and mentally screwed up but as for more dishonest I just can't see it.

And it is not true that priests, etc. are never leaders...look at Joan of Arc or Moses. Nope scientists and engineers are slaves to the military and they have not the strength or charisma to be leaders. Scientists and engineers make sure the crazy religious mob have all the tools for destruction they need. Scientists care not who or what cause they serve.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by crazydaisy
reply to post by SaosinEngaged
 


If we knew what was fact and what wasn't we wouldnt have a need for ATS discussions so we can sort thru everything and try to find the truth. Just because someone says something is fact, doesn't make it so!




I agree...corollary: When a proposition is being debated it means it hasn't been proven.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:38 AM
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I have avoided this thread until now..........The fact is that the US Gov/EPA/NOAA/FDA are not testing seafood that is coming out of the gulf for dispersants..............Facts are Facts...........

Until the truth is known..........all speculations should be heard......

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:41 AM
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One 'scientist' thought I was a humanoid. LMAO maybe a deprogrammer. Juries out to hunch.
Just a human shell in the Lookup position, mostly Soul^straight.
He was advised to have his son throw a bicycle at me.
I bleed well, though quick.
After the dust settled.
I understood he was bleeding from within.
It's an Invisible pain, though it remains to this day.

He's lucky I forgave him.
So am "I".....
I'm going to 'about face' all the drama today folks and focus on some music, privately. We all have our lil caves. I'm learning how to smile 'objectively' so "I" say though I 'could' be wrong.

Oh; Next.....
This is not mI cup of tea though I 'get it'. The 'form' of it all was unwrapped.

This seems plausible. Could be wrong. It's like going shopping. Does it fit.....or not. Next.....

Pressing a Breen button.
So much to Do.
So little time?

The first move of any game requires the 1st move.
I believe we are about half full at the moment.
Though that depends on what side of the glass UR on.
Looking In or tasting withOut?
Uh, wine that is.

I'd rather moderate with some smoke personally.
The 'peaceful' kind.
It's worked for thousands of years.
True story made evident.....every day.
One's private space Is just that.
"To Do No Harm."

Sounds logical.
What do think spock?
I could have heardem say alot though he spoke little and to the point. The Captain was a 'present' for the heart. Just a series though had 'some' meaning In.
"Oh Canada", though not Canadian.
They're kind of innocent huh.
Good neighbors don't have to say hello.
They just Are.

Mexico.....a work in progress.
I'll respect your border if you'll respect mine.
The same immigration rules in Mexico 'could' apply in the US though not the other way around? Good justice means good karma. Ditto the reverse. Sufferin suckatash Batman, Robin replied. It's interesting how the people 'change' their appearance through time though remain the same within. There must be some truth in that.

To wave a white flag with a sharp point at the Spear is the ideal.
The Conscience should instruct One how to use it if it's even necessary.
Once it is no longer necessary, live by the sword, die by the sword will be as a relic in a museum, though always necessary from time to time to remind the 'other' pieces of the missing puzzle whereever it may lie.

Ahh, that's enough.
Don't worry, I'm not going to miss my boat.
Right on schedule, like some planets and 'other' stuff.
It's not the end of the world by a loong shot.
Far miss though with a collective collateral impact.
I understand there are still quite a few Unipass tickets.
I understand they're free and right on time.

Good morning, night wherever one lost the plight.
Sometimes it's Right to fight for the Self.
Broken record.....while the "spinning wheel keeps on grooving, rolling through the River.....which rows Ontime.

Too much fruit spoils the harvest.
Next.....
A white rabbit just passed. Or Was this UR imagination?
Careful with the man made drugs folks.
They are 'addictive' for no good reason.
To each is Own.
They will be known.


[edit on 17-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Chopper
 

I don't want the end of the world.

Personally I've had quite an exciting life, too adventurous for my taste. I identify with Bilbo Baggins in the Hobbit, just one adventure after another and the excitement never stops. I just want to sit in a rocker and watch the squirrels and birds fight over the seeds.

I'm getting older and would really like to see things in the world become a little more stable and calm (fat chance - it's getting crazier).

BP has lied to everyone to cover their butts on this.

When someone lies to you they lie. Omission of a detail is the same as a lie.

When corporations are left unregulated and have governments as their kept mistresses you end up with disasters like BP.

Read my location.

But companies run on profit and not morals. They are service to self entities that only care about one thing.

PROFIT AT ALL COST.

First they called it a spill.

There's a big difference between a spill and a gusher. It was never a spill. That was a misnomer, on purpose, to detract from the true seriousness of the situation.

It was a gusher that went on for almost three months.

How much oil really did gush out? Some reports I've read say 180 to 300 million gallons.

What if a big methane gas bubble emerges into our atmosphere.

That would make our atmosphere more flamable wouldn't it?

Scientists are noticing our sun is having more frequent and intense solar activity lately, coupled with our atmosphere being more flamable (as well as poisonous) couldn't be a good thing, right?

Just wondering off the top of my head, any meteorologist on ATS, please correct me and put my over imaginative mind to rest.

Corexit is one of those dispersants now widely used, and it's also flamable.


As reported in the New York Times, Brian Turnbaugh, a policy analyst at OMB Watch said, "EPA had the authority to act all along; its decision to now disclose the ingredients demonstrates this. Yet it took a public outcry and weeks of complaints for the agency to act and place the public's interest ahead of corporate interests."

On the toxicity question, you could hardly find a more dangerous combination of poisons to dump into the Gulf of Mexico than what has been revealed in Corexit. The Corexit 9527 product has been designated a "chronic and acute health hazard" by the EPA. It is made with 2-butoxyethanol, a highly toxic chemical that has long been linked to the health problems of cleanup crews who worked on the Exxon Valdez spill.

A newer Corexit recipe dubbed the "9500 formula" contains dioctyl sodium sulfosuccinate, a detergent chemical that's also found in laxatives. What do you suppose happens to the marine ecosystem when fish and sea turtles ingest this chemical through their gills and skin? And just as importantly, what do you think happens to the human beings who are working around this chemical, breathing in its fumes and touching it with their skin?

The answers are currently unknown, which is exactly why it is so inexcusable that Nalco and the oil industry giants would for so long refuse to disclose the chemical ingredients they're dumping into the Gulf of Mexico in huge quantities (over a million gallons dumped into the ocean to date).

But it gets even more interesting when you look at just how widespread this "chemical secrecy" is across Big Business in the USA... and how the U.S. government more often than not conspires with industry to keep these chemicals a secret.

It's time to end chemical trade secrets
www.google.com...


If we are being told the absolute truth, than I am glad the cap is working and the sucker is plugged.

BUT

Will it hold?

How long will it take for the Gulf Waters to recover?

How many years will the oil and dispersants continue to affect our marine and land life?

Has anyone considered that our oceans mingle with our atmosphere to produce rain.

Will the Corexit get into our rain water?

Don't we get our drinking water from rain water?

Do you see how one thing builds upon another and every little thing is connected?

It's called the domino affect.

Big Business needs to be regulated tightly and made to comply with super strict safety regulations.

In order to ensure this disaster does not happen again, the head CEO's and owners must be held accountable and severly punished.

Those officials that are found guilty of something like this should lose ALL of their personal assets (every single penny) and thrown in jail.

What happened on April 20, 2010, happened not because of short sightedness, but GREED, pure and simple greed.

If we as a species keep operating for $profit, at all cost, we could end up extinct.

With a attitude of "Well it's over, we're okay"

This time.

Maybe.

The verdict isn't totally in on this one.

We keep pushing the cart closer to the cliff, one of these days the cart is going to fall off.

Has BP and the rest of the oil companies really learned anything from this or will it continue to be business as usual?


[edit on 17-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by SaosinEngaged
 


I'm not being funny but you are on a board with a diversity of views and opinions, it's okay to disagree but you shouldn't be calling their names out, the rules say disagree with the subject not the person and you have violated this rule by naming a person in your OP.

Why join a forum with such diversity and then complain?
It's like ordering a fruit salad when you only like apples?

I mean seriously....
all the best.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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Couldn't have said it better. Someone should catalog all the names of the doomsayers and chicken littles on ATS and check with them this time next year and ask them when exactly the end of the earth is supposed to come.

There will be no sign of oil on the beaches, and the marine life will rebound, just like I and many others have been saying.

I am also getting a little tired of all the gloom and doom on this site. How about doing some research and putting some facts behind your assertions before posting wild theories about huge extinction-event methane bubble explosions and whatever other fantasies are rattling around your skulls. I don't even think the writers at Marvel comics would get that extreme with their story lines.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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Hell, I'll even give you an idea for your next wild theory:

The gulf leak shifted the center of gravity of the earth by 18 inches, which threw the moon off its orbit, and it's calculated that it will crash into the earth in 13 years. Better prepare now.

Gawd.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by SaosinEngaged
 


my eyes are wide open thanks to posters like you don't worry people run from the truth cuz they can't handle it # happens o'well they'll be the sorry ones when life as they know it disappears



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Couldn't have said it better. Someone should catalog all the names of the doomsayers and chicken littles on ATS and check with them this time next year and ask them when exactly the end of the earth is supposed to come.

There will be no sign of oil on the beaches, and the marine life will rebound, just like I and many others have been saying.



in just a year?

that sure would be awesome, but i think that seems kinda presumptuous.

surely you jest. or are a bit overly hopeful and optimistic.

but i do agree with your main sentiment.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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reply to post by Perseus Apex
 


What the heck man... you are replying to yourself, talking jibberish like we are supposed to know what you are thinking, you are off topic, nothing you are saying has anything to do with the subject.....

Are you on drugs?

The subject is about people pushing theories like they are fact.... what on Earth are you talking about????

Stop talking to yourself, you are wasting space.

-edit to add-

Nevermind I must have missed this part of your post:

Originally posted by Perseus Apex
Careful with the man made drugs folks.
They are 'addictive' for no good reason.


I guess I got my answer.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by NineEleven11]



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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considering just how under-funded most US public schools are, the confusion between theory and fact should not be surprising.

a large portion of the population believes the earth is a few thousand years old.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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with all due respect every conspiracy ties it self to another,so we end up uncovering more and more so its kinda hard to think normal anymore.



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by NineEleven11
 


Thanks 911

I missed that post




Originally posted by Perseus Apex

The first move of any game requires the 1st move.


I'll note that down



posted on Jul, 17 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Dark Ghost
I guess it all comes down to just how far down the Rabbit Hole people are willing to go. As the days pass by it seems it only gets deeper and deeper...

When it comes to how deep someone should look into a conspiracy, I think people should start with examining the 'current' facts. Unless the facts themselves reveal a gap in logic, I would not dig too-too deeply into something. Not because you should not do more research, but because you end up being lead by another person's philosophies.

Example: Logic & Facts:

Do UFO's exist?
If you expand the acronym out, you get 'Unidentified Flying Object'. Our keyword here is unidentified. So, the answer to the question is based upon perception. As two people look up at the sky, each person interprets what they see differently. One person with aviation knowledge may say, "Hey, that is a stealth bomber". Another person without aviation knowledge would most likely say, "Hey, that is an unknown craft!" Since the person without inside knowledge does not know what is in the sky, the object flying above him or her cannot be categorically defined.

How far should someone read into the event? Should a person declare that they saw an alien flying saucer without doing research? Should someone conclude that the government 'must' be building alien spacecraft?

First, I would assume that the craft is military in nature, so I would try as hard to find an online or library image that matches. My sources for this part of my research would be limited to the local library, government sites, and government contractor sites. If I find the image right away, my research stops rather quickly. No need to look any further.

Second, if I cannot find a match at those sites, I would ask others who live around the area some questions. Maybe you can get a second hand description. Sometimes viewing something from another vantage point reveals more details. If your ground research reveals the object to be a plane, my research does not go any further. No need to look deeper.

Third, if the above two fail to produce results, I would go back online to dig just a little deeper. Not too deep. My research would be expanded to include hobbyist UFO sites. If I find a matching image at this point, I would ignore the attached commentary. Since the image maybe connected to another person's theoretical analysis, you do not want to get caught up in someone's hypothesis. It is all based upon speculation. Don't be lead by others. After you find online images, try to match it up to government images of jets, planes, orbitals, etc... Draw your own conclusions based upon your own research, but keep in mind that your government has not shown its complete military capability.

Fourth, if all three of the above fail to produce results, my thinking would end with, "Oh well, maybe next time I will have a camera." I would not draw any conclusions at this point, but I would register the event in the back of my head. Anything beyond this point is just speculation, and it leads to a massive black hole into oblivion. Just wait and see if it comes back. Who knows? Maybe something is out there? Only time will tell.

--

Just don't ever be lead by other hobbyists. Some of them are too desperate to make a finding, so they are willing to fabricate evidence to narrate a conspiracy.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by Section31]




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