Show us ONE, just one UFO pic or ANY evidence that can be proven as evidence of visitation.

Originally posted by mikelee
OK....Roswell.

Original BREAKING STORY on that day stated flying saucer found.

What more "proof" than that? Its was obviously a cover up with no doubt. The military changed their story to fit the excuse.

After known problems that the Russians were having with their newly founded UFO, the US did not want to risk anything.

Newspapers get things wrong ALL the time. It happens now, and it certainly happened back then. Whatevers sells newspapers......

Maybe the military told the truth and the people got caught up in their own delusions? It is certainly possible. Nazi Germany is a great example of mass hysteria. There are plenty of examples of delusional populaces throughtout history.

reply to post by Stillalive


Who are you talking to?
Who is screaming?
What the.....?

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by itchy_tartan_blanket

Originally posted by rusethorcain
reply to post by yeti101

 

belivers arn't interested in the truth theyre more interested in confirming their belief system. Theyre not objective or able to think critically. The proof is in this thread.

You realize what a convoluted argument this is? It can be turned around.

Naysayers are not interested in the truth they're more interested in confirming their belief system. They are not objective or able to think critically. The proof is in this thread.

...and if either side has a firm predetermined belief system, almost a brainwashing, that is very hard to upend ...it is the naysayers.
The believers have already accepted and digested the new information and are able to run with it.



[edit on 13-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

But where is this truth?
That's all I want to say to this post because it's slightly off the OP topic. What naysayers are we speaking of here? Non-believers in aliens? Or those that don't believe in alien visitation based on the information available to us? We ARE interested in the truth. Surely that is evident?

The truth of the matter is, it appears some on this thread are willing to settle for a half truth. Fine, that is up to you to stop halfway in "The Quest" and hope it works out for you. I fancy your odds if I'm truthful. But right now, I won't stop hoping until I'm sure, way beyond a doubt that we've been visited.

The wild thing is, that if it was proved right now that aliens are here in their ships, all those against the thread would immediately say "Ha! We told you so!"

The whole thing is a jigsaw. We can see all the pieces, and have a fair idea what the picture is, but we are just a few pieces short. And it's these pieces that will determine the whole picture. Aliens, in vessels, here on Earth. Then the picture will be complete.

A pile of building materials is not a building.

Yeti didn't read what I was saying but you shouldn't go jumping on the bandwagon either until you know where it's going. I believe in UFO's, extra terrestrials, and cryptoterrestrials.

Do I have any proof?

No. I have the word of others which I believe but my friend, the skeptic, does not, so the challenge is to prove it to him.

When a computer takes in enough information it jumps to a reasonable conclusion based on the variables entered, it offers an assortment of possibilities based on likelihood. I type in the letter a and my computer takes me to abovetopsecret because I have gone there so many times before it just knows.
I am like my computer. I have digested enough information on the topic, weighed the credibility of the witnesses, and determined they were credible, determined that the supporting evidence was credible enough to back them up, and in some cases determined that since they actually touched or were in direct proximity to said object, UFO or ET could not have been mistaken for something or someone else.

And, like my computer the more information I take in, the more all the answers point to extraterrestrial life manning ships in our atmosphere.

Now what I said above referring to naysayers...these are those who insist all UFO's have an Earthly explanation.

None of us are born believing in UFO's.
We are all taught no such thing exist.

It is easier to maintain that firm belief that no such thing exists, than it is to step out of the box and say otherwise... no matter what you see.

To leave "no such thing exists" and go to "something exists" requires an effort, a paradigm shift. If it were just a handful of people who have made this paradigm shift I might say it was an anomaly. However huge masses of people have already decided what their parents, their teachers and conventional wisdom have told them is a lie.
This dramatic shift requires something other than mass hallucination or misinterpretation to bring it about in so many people.

So I am saying the fact that there are millions of people who have stepped out of the box leads me to believe...there is a good reason for them all to go there.
I am not imagining things, we are not all imagining things, we are being visited.

I'm sorry but I just cannot seem to take in the point attempted in any post that states a UFO is an alien ship. A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. Simple.

I understand what you are saying but one thing - I DID read your last post that is why I asked you to clarify you're meaning.

Millions of people making a leap of faith doesn't constitute fact. Fact. That would mean Christians are right. Muslims are right. jews are right. Atheists are right. But we all know that isn't possible. Jerusalem isn't that peaceful So you are wrong or the religious are wrong or we are wrong. What makes your opinion right and everyone elses wrong when you basically don't have proof to back up your claim. Knowing is different from believeing.

Originally posted by itchy_tartan_blanket

I'm sorry big chap but why do you refer to these aliens in names "earthborne"? If that's not a word then it is now!

It was seen here first...maybe.
I know the most natural counter-argument to this. But before you try mate, you must be able to prove that aliens visit or have visited Earth? End the argument here now. You cannot say we are not ready or you would've not told your story. You would not be on a forum either. So prove you're extra-terrestrial. Prove you're not "one of us". How'd you get here ya madman?

well now ... I'm not One that really cares anymore if, or how ready Humanity is to learn the truth about extraterrestrials. In my opinion it is way past due. There are so many advantages to disclosure that I doubt I could enumerate.

How'd I get here? I was born in Earth orbit on a starship thats a very large triangle. About 1km in length and about 750m at its widest point.

My evidence ... Unfortunately that is all it is currently; evidence. What I have done is get two different DNA panels done. One is an autosomal panel, its what law enforcement uses to identify people. The other was Y Chromosome specific. Actualy, on the surface it all looks rather 'normal' (for a human), but there are some anomalies contained within.

As a software engineer I have spent a rather long time designing a wide variety of data systems. Quite a lot of my recent work has been business intelligence. In much of this the analysis of databased data is required, something, again, I have been doing for quite a while (started working with databases and the SQL language in the 90's).

Data it seems has a tendancy to form groups, this 'property' is exploited by all those engaged in data mining. It is something that is very reliable and predictable. These groups of data also allow One to take new data and make predictions about it.

In my case the data predicts that I am of Indian and African descent. The autosomal data show both of these, the Y DNA shows that I should belong to Haplogroup "A", African. This both confirms the prediction of the autosomal data, and refines the paternal side of my DNA.

The autosomal DNA seems to be rather lacking in indicators for any other ethnic groups.

Now ... the anomaly. I am a 5.5 foot tall white guy, with medium brown hair (some blond), blue eyes (though that does vary from a rather dark grey to various shades of blue, and green ... once after a minor surgery). I look for all practical purpose like an Englishman. I know there is the argument that there may have been an African and or an Indian hidden in my family somewhere. But, that would mean that there is plenty of European DNA there too. My Autosomal DNA is seriously lacking in European links. When I did a search of the European equivelent of CODIS, there were absolutely no close matches and the "prediction" was something on the order of 10E-13 probability of finding any kind of a match. Which would seem to indicate that there is no European DNA present.

Anyway thats my evidence in a nutshell. I'm hopeing to get some more testing done in the next few months. Since I'm retired now, I no longer make $70k+, but I do get to work on the occasional project from time to time (just finishing one up for a Dallas based Insurance Company). The next test will probably be a Y-DNA, MtDNA, and panel that brings out a set of DNA predictors (desease, traits, and some other stuff). In any case, the data doesn't seem to support the reality.

Where's your vessel? What's the best alcohol on your planet? You brought Buckie to these shores didn't you? To be honest, it IS moon juice!

I don't understand why you would broadcast in a forum but not on TV

Know what I mean?

There are 7 starships in Earth orbit, about 100,000km above Dallas, Tx. I think they may be visible, but, I've not been able to aford a telescope good enough to see them. They are all a dark color and very non-reflective.

Alcohol ... I really have no idea what my people my have in that dept. I've lived on Earth my entire life so, I'm more into Terrestrial dirnks ... like a good 18+ year old single malt, or perhaps a decent Mescal.

I'm not ready for prime time Seriously, I'm trying to do a "grass roots" thing, the hope is to attempt to get around TPTB.

Etharzi od Oma


[edit on 15-7-2010 by AnthraAndromda]

reply to post by AnthraAndromda


AnthraDromedary.....

This is something I simply don't understand about ATS.

On the one hand.....

If I post a series of lies & hoax material, it states quite clearly in the T&C's that I could be banned.

On the other hand.....

Posting a series of lies & hoax material in order to feign the identity of an alien seems to be acceptable.

Regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by Maybe...maybe not
reply to post by AnthraAndromda

 

AnthraDromedary.....

This is something I simply don't understand about ATS.

On the one hand.....

If I post a series of lies & hoax material, it states quite clearly in the T&C's that I could be banned.

On the other hand.....

Posting a series of lies & hoax material in order to feign the identity of an alien seems to be acceptable.

Regards
Maybe...maybe not

You are quite rude,and seem to have a problem thinking.

You have absolutely NO evidence or reason to think that what I've been posting is either a lie or a hoax. You simply don't like what I have to say, so you reject it violently. You call it a lie and a hoax because you want it to be.

As I have already said; I have made my claim, and I have provided evidence. Now, as you are accusing me of what in some circumstances is considered criminal, so, in keeping with virtually justice system on Earth; it is up to you to prove what I am saying is either a lie or a hoax, or both.

The reality is you know as well as I that you can't, but, if you keep it up you may have to.

y'all have a nice evenin' now, hear.

reply to post by AnthraAndromda


AnthraDromedary.....

y'all have a nice evenin' now, hear.

Play a spot of Starcraft do we old tosh?

Edmund Duke: Starcraft Terran General - Quote:

"...y'all have a nice evenin' now, hear..."

Maybe you can hitch a ride back home with General Duke!

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda

You have absolutely NO evidence or reason to think that what I've been posting is either a lie or a hoax.

You're right in saying that no one can disprove a negative. Ergo, I can tell you that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid named Trevor and you cannot disprove it. Does that mean that I am telling the truth? Does it make it more probable than not? Hardly! You miss the point as always Anthra. You aren't fooling anyone here. MMN makes a valid point that you cannot answer with any semblance of rationale.

You simply don't like what I have to say, so you reject it violently. You call it a lie and a hoax because you want it to be.

Again you are correct. We don't like what you have to say for a multitude of reasons. For one, you bring the UFOlogical community into disrepute and turn it into a laughing stock at the expense of your self indulgent, delusional BS. And two, we call it a lie and hoax for the plain fact that it is. That is the only truth in this matter no matter how much you try to twist and contort the facts. Stop kidding yourself in pretending you have a valid argument for your actions. You don't! End of story.

As I have already said; I have made my claim, and I have provided evidence.

Pardon me but you have not proved anything to the affirmative! Besides, if you were any type of alien, do you honestly thin the PTB would have you running around free spilling the beans on the internet? No they wouldn't. The reason you walk free of any government intervention is because you're just a pretender... a liar caught so deep in fantasy that you no longer have the ability to separate truth from fiction.

That's the truth right there. I don't think you can handle it. Don't expect those on this forum with high moral fibre to fortify your delusional state. It's not going to happen. Time to wake up to a few home truths Anthra!

IRM

[edit on 16/7/10 by InfaRedMan]

Originally posted by OldDragger
reply to post by rusethorcain

 

Some observations;
One, the "official" footage starts out with what appears to be stock footage of what are Mig -21's taking off. why would any official footage, classified or not have this edited into it?
Second, the cockpit doesn't appear at all to be from a Mig-21. Search Mig-21 cockpit view on Google images, look for airforce walkaround,: there are actually umpteen cockpit images to choos from. None of them look at all like the cockpit in the video to me. If it's official film, why use different types of aircraft. This mistake is seen constantly in film, where differing types are used to represent one aircraft, and it's really distracting to aircraft fans.
I would also ask why the film is so short, why were they filming from the cockpit anyway, and also where is the film from the other aircraft?
The Mig-21 was still equipted with cannon as opposed to only missles, normally any footage would be from gun camera's instead of the cockpit.
Just off the top of my head.





[edit on 15-7-2010 by OldDragger]

[edit on 15-7-2010 by OldDragger]

Well ...these are all pretty good questions I would not have thought of.
I really don't know anything about the Mig21 but maybe the film editor got the model wrong in the description and added the stock footage himself.
Maybe this cockpit was a defective design and discontinued early.
The film may be short because it was edited keeping just the UFO portion. The object was no longer in frame so why continue with footage?
Maybe this was a virgin flight they wanted to capture it on film. Maybe the pilot brought a camera along to take some film for himself. Maybe the other planes cameras was broken.
I don't understand your later posts. It's an F15? If the object looks hoaxed doesn't nesc. mean it is hoaxed...I mean unless the other ATS guy KNOWS for certain. They all LOOK hoaxed since we don't know what a real UFO looks like, it should be hard to tell the difference between a real UFO and a hoax. Unless it is a really bad hoax.

So while these are all excellent questions casting some doubt on this films authenticity, they do not prove positively it is anything other than what it claims to be..
I appreciate your taking the time to look it over though, and do value your opinion...so thank you very much.

If I find something more convincing you will be the first to know!



[edit on 16-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

i think the believers have done a good job in showing how irrational they are about this subject. Even when shown what they are being presented is false they still choose to believe its genuine. They wonder why people dont take this subject seriously

Originally posted by itchy_tartan_blanket

Originally posted by mackblack27

Originally posted by itchy_tartan_blanket
reply to post by AnthraAndromda

 

I am not going to argue with you over proof and evidence. It's been covered. And I like you. And in the nicest possible way - I think you're absolutely mental!

It's a compliment in Scotland

What you think is proof is nothing but evidence to me my friend. There is nothing I've read, seen or heard that convinces me 100% that we are being visited now or ever. People can say they believe 100% that it is so, but to say they know......?

He is quite endeering in a quirky way
As a glasgow boy myself Im more inclined though to go for the term heed banger or basket weaver. If he started preaching this stuff outside ibrox how long do you thik it would be before he was in the gutter LOL
FOLLOW FOLLOW
mackblack27

PMSL!!! Basket weaver! Class!

I'm an Easterhouse Bhoy originally myself but in Irvine now. But you more than most will know I mean absolutely no harm.

Where you from? And where are you now?

One thing I must say though.....he sounds like a hun

I AM only on the wind up here

What's your thoughts on the topic though mack? Can you honestly say, beyond reason of doubt, that there is proof we've been visited? Personally I'd love to say aye but I just can't.

Well I was born in Govan and lived on the shieldhall road about 1/2 mile from ibrox so Im afraid Iam a hun , though only by birthright as my classic phrase is "I dont like football and am not religous, But im a protestant rangers fan" Im sure you will uderstand how that applies to most of us from glasgow. But now Im away from it and live in cambridge in england.

We're on the same team here pal , i too want to say yes we have been visited but the FACT is there is no proof. That was the original point of the thread to say we have to be more objective in our evidence. My belief comes from ancient depictions cultures , since I have been looking into the subject I have found that there seems to be a lot of un answered questions that I feel need more lookig into .
But when it comes to modern pictures of ufos I dont trust the goverments to reveal all the tech available to the public so IMO a lot though maybe not everything we see in the sky could easily be man made.
My main issue though with the ufo community on here is that we seem to jump on everything because we want to believe as opposed to being objective because in the end the only way to get the subject taken seriously is for us to do the same.

Though as regards our wannabe alien basket weaver he is merely playing on the fact that we cannot disprove or prove him right or wrong. I believe if he got his "dna" evidence and maybe posted a thread presenting this alone as un answered and asked us to debate it fair enough I could quite happily entertain it as unexplained, but unfortunatly he has presented it as fact coupled with his website in which he describes the birth of his intergalactic empire the star wars which have taken place and pictures of triangle spaceships from video games . It is fun dont get me wrong but his story in unbelievable unporovable and oe of it adds up , also there is previous threads where he has tried this before and got owned just the same as he has here. and even though hes been here for 63 years studying humans he still cant understand why his story is unconvincing and for some reaso in all this time he only came out with this crap a year ago . so is he 63 i dont think so, is he alien ...no , is he full of bs with a nervous disorder .HELL YEAH.
Oh and hes responsible for the roswell incident as well
PLease read back over his stories though it is fun and I personally think hes looking to sell the movie rights.
Speak soon itchy tartan blanket

mk27

reply to post by mackblack27
Yep to all that.

But how old is said alien basket weaver?
You believe younger that the 63 years that he is fond of saying, but how much younger?

I will go with 17 (human) years.



[edit on 16-7-2010 by butcherguy]

reply to post by butcherguy


Watch your tongue human or the mother ship may level your house!

Oh, wait the government would not let a super advanced alien race with superior technology and weaponry do that, plus he did say they were peace loving, but they gave us weapons to protect ourselves, a barbaric race that could easily turn the weapon on them and demand their technology for ourselves.

I could go on but what is the point.

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the believers have done a good job in showing how irrational they are about this subject. Even when shown what they are being presented is false they still choose to believe its genuine. They wonder why people dont take this subject seriously

And the dis-believers have done an equally great job NOT proving it is all a big hoax.
Some witness interviews can be extremely compelling even without photographic evidence. I cannot discount many of those interviews.

Old Dragger and others are disproving "photographs" brought up for scrutiny as well they should.
Others here calling themselves "skeptics" seem to do little more than hitch-hike on other people's illumination, parroting the same tired talking points.."Yeah, what he said"...and "It wasn't in the Newspapers"..or "Why is the film so short?"
There are many possible explanations for all these questions too...

I myself could argue and bring an excellent case why these things may not exist, but this does not mean I would be right.

Just because there is no proof, does not mean there was no crime.






[edit on 16-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

Not 1 debunker on ATS has impressive stuff.

The point of my previous post was not that the existing videos, photos, and testimonies DO constitute proof of anything. The point was that conclusions about the truth or falsity of any subject are most often based on evidence and not proof. It seems the original premise of this thread was that people who accept the idea of the existance of extraterrestrials and the possibility of visitations and interactions by/with extraterrestrials were a bunch of idiots because there exists no 'proof' that such is the case. My point is that much of what is accepted by the general public as 'true' is also based on 'evidence' and not 'proof'. I see no reason to apply different standards to the topic of extraterrestrials.

Originally posted by Paradigm2012
Not 1 debunker on ATS has impressive stuff.

They dont need to because of the CRAP that is posted as good evidence all you need to do is say in title best ufo video picture whatever and the stars and flags roll in its pretty pathetic but funny when its a known hoax that gets them

Again I state that this is a tiresome debate that can not have a winner.

Proof is in the eye of the beholder, what constitute proof in one person’s eyes is not necessarily the proof beheld in another person’s eyes.

I myself think one thing and believe the other.

a. I believe that alien beings from another planet have been and continue to visit this planet, and I want the proof to be shown so it can be a known fact. Thus far I have not seen the proof as I need it to be, thus I question my own belief in this case which leads me into my next thought process.

b. The other part of me sees this universe is too vast not to have life elsewhere, but how complex is that life; would it be identifiable to us?

Would this life try to seek us out, have the same curiosities as us?

If there is other life out there similar to us, would they be even able to find our tiny planet amongst the stars?

Would they necessarily be looking for the same conditions for life as us, or would they be looking for something different.



Beliefs can not be forced upon someone else, each persons beliefs are their own as they should be, though some are more easily swayed into changing their stance than others, but this is because at that point in time they were walking the line between what they believed and to them there was enough reason to pick a particular side of the argument.

reply to post by BlackbearSpook


Hmm.
Well the evidence points to.......hoaxes and misinterpretation.
How many of the goofy You Tube videos ( what would pseudo science do without You tube ), invariably prove to be hoaxes?
Is the answer, what, 99%?
What does that tell you?
If there ARE aliens out there, why do people have to resort to hoaxing? Why?
It would seem reasonable that if aliens are flitting around the planet, that some real prooof would turn up doesn't it? After 60 years of intense scrutiny and interest, what HAS turned up? Hoaxes.
Please. Use your heads folks!

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by yeti101
i think the believers have done a good job in showing how irrational they are about this subject. Even when shown what they are being presented is false they still choose to believe its genuine. They wonder why people dont take this subject seriously

And the dis-believers have done an equally great job NOT proving it is all a big hoax.
Some witness interviews can be extremely compelling even without photographic evidence. I cannot discount many of those interviews.

Old Dragger and others are disproving "photographs" brought up for scrutiny as well they should.
Others here calling themselves "skeptics" seem to do little more than hitch-hike on other people's illumination, parroting the same tired talking points.."Yeah, what he said"...and "It wasn't in the Newspapers"..or "Why is the film so short?"
There are many possible explanations for all these questions too...

I myself could argue and bring an excellent case why these things may not exist, but this does not mean I would be right.

Just because there is no proof, does not mean there was no crime.






[edit on 16-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm certainly not here to say I'm wrong or anyone else is wrong. We just don't know. That is the point. How can we come to a conclusion with inconclusive data?

This thread should be enlightening to people but instead it has brought out a nasty side to those who blindly believe that we have been, or are being visited, is absolute fact. The very reaction of people on this thread is no different from religious people who are questioned about God, Allah etc etc - they avoid the subject and then try to ridicule those who question how they came to their conclusion. As someone else mentioned, we should all be objective and to do so we need to have open minds.

I am very open to the possibility of past visitations, and I'm open to the possibility that it hasn't happened. It is clearly evident that those (mostly) who are against what the OP posted are incapable or unwilling to keep an open mind to ANY possibility until we can get to the answer. They seem to believe that keeping an open mind on this subject is to not seek out all facts and make a massive leap of faith and call it fact. I'm sorry but that does not constitute an open mind or seeking the truth.