Islam is an Advocate of Peace, Not Terror

Originally posted by zappafan1
Ah yes..... the religion of peace. Research happenings today, and you'll see that 85% of the places where blood flows in the streets and you'll find Muslims as the root cause. As for history, let's go back a ways and see what happened....

634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

635 Muslim Crusaders

I stopped at this point because of this blatant and hilarious contradiction!

I've never read so much rubbish in my life!

Please quote the Quran that supports what you are saying.


[edit on 6-7-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

reply to post by PunisherSupreme


The Crusade is a Christian term, when did it become Muslims Crusade I will never know lol

The Crusades were fought mainly by Roman Catholic forces (taking place after the East-West Schism and mostly before the Protestant Reformation) against Muslims who had occupied the near east since the time of the Rashidun Caliphate, although campaigns were also waged against pagan Slavs, pagan Balts, Jews, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars, Hussites, Waldensians, Old Prussians, and political enemies of the various popes.

I have never seen any group of people act so psychotically, except maybe the Western empire when it went on a war rampage to Afghanistan and Iraq and then mysteriously got stuck lol.

Description of the Crusades by a great historian.

"High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed ... the Holy War was nothing more than a long act of intolerance in the name of God"

And I hope no one makes the Holy War term Islamic is well, ohh shiz, FOX news already did it.

reply to post by zappafan1


STAR.

What seems to be a pattern here is how quickly many will point out Western Judeo/Christian religious atrocities and historical facts of said atrocities, but when the shoe is put on the other foot especially in a thread which claims that "Islam is an Advocate of Peace" that shows Peaceful Islams "dirty laundry" now all of a sudden it's deemed as an attack and it gets picked apart. Meanwhile showing others faults is deemed ok as long as Islam doesn't look in the mirror.

I say turn about is fair play. Notice how many of the "Historical Facts" about how peaceful Islam really Was/Is were ignored?

Can any body say Hypocrisy? Oh wait that word has a Greek origin never mind.

Please continue

reply to post by SLAYER69


I think for the most part many of us who "defend" Islam is due to the simple fact that it gets attacked idiotically and relentlessly.

Many people who attack Islam due so without being mindful of their own faiths atrocities and sometimes they even try to rationalize those atrocities.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the 3 Abrahamic religions are rife with doublespeak and doublethink. They promote peace and war at the same time. Christianity does it, Judaism does it, and Islam does it. Neither of these three religions are particularly peaceful in nature and anyone that says otherwise needs to be smacked in the head with their holy book and forced to actually read the damn thing.

Really the hypocrisy goes both ways and more often that naught I see more Christians blindly attacking Islam than Muslim's blindly attacking Christianity.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Really the hypocrisy goes both ways and more often that naught I see more Christians blindly attacking Islam than Muslim's blindly attacking Christianity.

Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. There are many other points of view on this topic.

Here's the deal...

Many of us already know that. But will others who Defend Islam admit it's part? It appears that here at ATS many supporters of Islam simply refuse to look in the mirror so to speak. Is all I'm saying. It's nice to point fingers at others, but when does the self appraisal and turning the discerning eye inward begin?

PEACE

Slay

Here a material for those who attacked my claim that Qur'an is of divine origin.

Although it may seem irelevant to this thread, it is indeed relevant, because when I claim Qur'an is from God, and when we prove that, then as I said ALL claims in Qur'an are relevant, many of those of course regarding Islam as a religion of peace.

For the doubters, here is ONE aspect of proof why Qur'an is indeed of divine origin: MAthematical miracles in it.

A lecture by the scholar Shabir Ally, with mathematical facts in Qur'an that could in no way have been produced by humans in the 7th century.

Anyone can check these facts for themself.

It is an AWESOME lecture, and I recommend it to everyone, muslims included, who might not be familiar with these facts:

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Really the hypocrisy goes both ways and more often that naught I see more Christians blindly attacking Islam than Muslim's blindly attacking Christianity.

Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. There are many other points of view on this topic.

Here's the deal...

Many of us already know that. But will others who Defend Islam admit it's part? It appears that here at ATS many supporters of Islam simply refuse to look in the mirror so to speak. Is all I'm saying. It's nice to point fingers at others, but when does the self appraisal and turning the discerning eye inward begin?

PEACE

Slay

I don't know but you don't need to lie to me.

"many of us already know that"? Bull#. Absolute, unadulterated, bull#.

I don't know how many times I've seen Christians blindly attack Islam for it's faults and yet openly state that the atrocities in Christianity aren't there concern or flat out rationalize why it was okay. I've seen it a lot though. Enough that for me, on this site, the typical Christian falls in line with this prevailing attitude

This isn't even an opinion. These people type the posts themselves and the meaning behind these posts are pretty damn clear.

And furthermore there really aren't that many points of view in this argument.

You have Christians who accept their faiths atrocities or (shocker) actually realize that atrocities committed in the name of any faith rarely if ever have anything to actually do with that faith. You have Muslim's who realize the same. Then you have the prevailing attitude on this site, and that's anyone who is religious believes their faith is the best one and completely perfect in everything it has ever done. Then you have a third point of view, wishing that those in the prevailing point of view would shut the hell up and stop being hypocritical, nonsensical, idiotic neanderthals.

But I keep in mind that this wish is just that; a wish.



I think though that you're fighting an uphill battle Slayer. Because I can GUARANTEE you, yes, GUARANTEE you, that those in the prevailing attitude, the majority of them are Christians. And this isn't an opinion. The great thing about forums is that old posts stick around. And those words speak for themselves.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
I think though that you're fighting an uphill battle Slayer. Because I can GUARANTEE you, yes, GUARANTEE you

Semper Fi

Wouldn't be the first time, wont be the last.

reply to post by queenannie38


You completely miss the point. Someone with your level of reading ability and intelligence should of got it already. You're not open to my point because you have already made your mind up, before the thread even began. That much is obvious in your opening post. I suggest you read my post and the other posts again. Your analogies prove nothing except to reinforce your views. Unfortunately, they are incompatible with the facts. I will take reality over your idealistic analogies anyday. It is in reality that millions of people are suffering under Islam. A responsible human being feels their pain, they do not disregard it as inconvenient for their beliefs.

Originally posted by LittleSecret
The Crusade is a Christian term, when did it become Muslims Crusade I will never know

No, you obviously don't know. Not that I feel the Crusades have ANY relevance to the points I have discussed about modern Islam, I will however go off topic here and educate you.

1009 AD, Muslim Sultan Al-Hakim gave the order to destroy the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
1079 AD, Turkish Sultan Suleyman says that Christians are banned from Jerusalem.

The first Crusade did not take place until 1096 AD.

Originally posted by PunisherSupreme

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Give some examples of the "scientific facts" and claims that the Qur'an states and which cannot be reproduced today.

I'm keen to see what these are.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is merely a collection of anecdotes, stories and myths, written by people. Nothing in there should be taken as fact.

There are plenty!

There are NONE. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

Most folks, when dealing with their own "holy book", see what they want to see, whether it's there or not. A really entertaining fact is that folks ostensibly of the same religion look at the same book, and see different things. That's why we have sects today, among the Jews, among the Christians, and among the upstart Muslims, the new kids on the block.

No, there are NO "scientific miracles" in the Qur'an, none in the Bible, none in the Torah.

NONE.

The nature of deity is that it's not subject to scientific scrutiny or "proofs". The scientific method requires experimentation, repeatable, verifiable, experimentation, that always produces the same results.

Gods are not subject to such things. Real gods don't jump through hoops on command.

Those who require scientific proof for their deities are reaching, grasping at straws. Those who find it have truly weak gods indeed.

When you confuse religion and science, you are near the end. Perhaps of both.

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by TailoredVagabond

Ergo - you don't take on ly half a meaning and say I'm wrong (Islam does mean peace, if you've ever spoken to any Muslims about Islam (and I grew up in a predominantly Mulsim area of Manchester).

What are you talking about? At no point did I contest the meaning of the word Islam. You're confusing me with someone else.

"Islam" means "submission". "Peace" is "salaam".

I mean, if we're going to get into linguistics, semantics, and definitions here...

The Moors ruled Spain for 700 years
All churches flourished including Christianity.
It was the renaissance before the Renaissance.
They brought the astrolabe to Europe.
And then came the Armies of the Vatican
and the Inquisition, starring Torquemada as grand inquisitor.
History is written by the victors.
The Moors fled to the new world, Mexico, Ireland, and Holland et al.

Context is everything

Seataka


[edit on 6-7-2010 by seataka]

reply to post by nenothtu


You're right my friend!

Free Dictionary:

[Arabic 'islm, submission, from 'aslama, to surrender, resign oneself, from Syriac 'alem, to make peace, surrender, derived stem of lem, to be complete; see lm in Semitic roots.]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by zappafan1

 

I don't know everything, but considering that there was an uneasy peace after Muhammad with Christians and Jews, and considering Muhammad destroyed 360 idols, it seems non Abrahamic people were the infedels in his day.

Doesn't make his slaughter of them right. Just saying, the definition of infidels changes.

An "uneasy peace" is an interesting choice of words. How. precisely, was the islamic war of conquest against what they called the "Romans" (Byzantine Christians) "peaceful"? I can see the "uneasy" part pretty well, though...

For the Jews, I can see how the massacre of the banu Quraysh was probably pretty "uneasy", too, but where is the "peace" there?

Edit to add: I reckon I can sort of see your point, in regard to the massacre mentioned just above. When every man-jack of your opposition is dead, their heads cut off and rolled into a blood-filled ditch, and all their women and children are now your slaves, your property, I guess that IS pretty peaceful... for one side only, the victors.

[edit on 2010/7/6 by nenothtu]

reply to post by zappafan1


An excellent rundown on the peaceful acts of islam. I would have liked, however, to have seen you include the earlier peaceful actions of islam, from the Battle of Badr up to the Caliphate of Umar.

Those "wars of peace" were waged under Mohammed himself, that peaceful little cuss! They culminated in the conquest of the entire Arabian Peninsula, which was then used as a base of operations against the Christians by Umar, an enterprise begun by Mohammed, whose untimely demise at the hands of a jewish slave woman prevented his seeing it to it's successful conclusion.

Originally posted by SpectreDC

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by SpectreDC
Really the hypocrisy goes both ways and more often that naught I see more Christians blindly attacking Islam than Muslim's blindly attacking Christianity.

Well that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. There are many other points of view on this topic.

Here's the deal...

Many of us already know that. But will others who Defend Islam admit it's part? It appears that here at ATS many supporters of Islam simply refuse to look in the mirror so to speak. Is all I'm saying. It's nice to point fingers at others, but when does the self appraisal and turning the discerning eye inward begin?

PEACE

Slay

I don't know but you don't need to lie to me.

"many of us already know that"? Bull#. Absolute, unadulterated, bull#.

I don't know how many times I've seen Christians blindly attack Islam for it's faults and yet openly state that the atrocities in Christianity aren't there concern or flat out rationalize why it was okay. I've seen it a lot though. Enough that for me, on this site, the typical Christian falls in line with this prevailing attitude

This isn't even an opinion. These people type the posts themselves and the meaning behind these posts are pretty damn clear.

And furthermore there really aren't that many points of view in this argument.

You have Christians who accept their faiths atrocities or (shocker) actually realize that atrocities committed in the name of any faith rarely if ever have anything to actually do with that faith. You have Muslim's who realize the same. Then you have the prevailing attitude on this site, and that's anyone who is religious believes their faith is the best one and completely perfect in everything it has ever done. Then you have a third point of view, wishing that those in the prevailing point of view would shut the hell up and stop being hypocritical, nonsensical, idiotic neanderthals.

But I keep in mind that this wish is just that; a wish.



I think though that you're fighting an uphill battle Slayer. Because I can GUARANTEE you, yes, GUARANTEE you, that those in the prevailing attitude, the majority of them are Christians. And this isn't an opinion. The great thing about forums is that old posts stick around. And those words speak for themselves.

Nice .... Calling other members liars simply because they don't agree with you. That's a sure fire way to NOT bolster your argument.

Also nice to complain about how islam takes a bum rap from "the majority of Christians", while it's YOU that's using the very broad brush - aka hypocrisy - to paint Christians with.

The true facts are - from a historical perspective - that radical (not all) muslims are guilty of perpetrating the same barbaric crimes TODAY that Christians did 500 or 1,000 years ago with their inquisitions and crusades. Trouble is, muslims were ALSO doing those barbaric things back then too.

So, it seems that one religion (Christian) has joined the 21st century while the other (islam) is still stuck back in the 7th century - still stoning women to death for adultery, for example. That 1,400 year difference is something that can't be erased, or smoothed over by chanting "religion of peace" repeatedly.

Last, who exactly appointed you lord protector of the world's muslims?



[edit on 7/6/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by nenothtu

There are NONE. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

experimentation, that always produces the same results.

Really?

Watch the video I posted above, experiment with the proofs given - go on and REPEAT thos facts given, a million times if you will.
You will always get the same results.
Scientifically 100% correct proofs.

After you watch the video, and you do the experiments yourself, get back here and say again that there are "none, zero, zilch, zip, nada" scinetific miracles in the Qur'an.

If after all that you really claim that again, then you are violating the one argument on scientific investigation you yourself are bringing up. Bravo.

Originally posted by LittleSecret

This is one of those times when you can easily use the Internet or texting slang LOL

See if you had the ability to think, you would have came to the conclusion that infidels can be wiped out without killing them, get it?

Do we even need elaboration on that?

Murder is forbidden in Islam, that includes the murder of infidels.

And next time please quote the Quran, and let us know which verse and which chapter.

"Murder" is such an oft misused phrase, don't you agree? To radical muslims, "killing" infidels is justified, and so not really "murder", eh?

"Kill them wherever you find them" applies only to infidels, unbelievers - not the People of the Book, right? The People of the Book only become legitimate targets if they refuse to pay the jizya tribute, and make themselves subjects under islam. Then they're fair game.

So then, the choices for polytheists, and all other unbelieving infidels, is conversion to islam or death. The People of the Book are a special case, no? The choice for them is jizya tribute and subjugation, or death - no conversion required for them...

The common thread there is the common choice of "death" or dishonor. It's not "murder" if you can justify it out of the Book, is it?

"Murder" is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by skajkingdom

Really?

Yes, really.

Watch the video I posted above, experiment with the proofs given - go on and REPEAT thos facts given, a million times if you will.
You will always get the same results.
Scientifically 100% correct proofs.

Negative, young sir. It's a violation of the scientific method, from the git go. Science and faith are two entirely different realms of endeavor. Once you have scientifically "proven" your god, he ceases to be a deity. I'll say it again, louder this time so that perhaps you can hear it: "deities do NOT jump through hoops at your command". It's supposed to work the other way 'round. I want nothing to do with a god that I can lead around by the nose, a god that I can force to do my bidding. That would mean he is weaker than I am, so why would I worship such a creature?

After you watch the video, and you do the experiments yourself, get back here and say again that there are "none, zero, zilch, zip, nada" scinetific miracles in the Qur'an.

OK. There are NO scientific miracles in the Qur'an. None. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada. If you maintain otherwise, you have demoted your god from a deity to a mere scientist. Way to go there.

Furthermore, there is no such thing as a "scientific miracle". Miracles, by their very nature, elude scientific analysis. That, young sir, is what MAKES them miraculous. Once they are proven with science, they are no longer miraculous, and must necessarily take their place among the mundane workings of the universe. They are no longer "supernatural", they are proven to be eminently natural.

If after all that you really claim that again, then you are violating the one argument on scientific investigation you yourself are bringing up. Bravo.

How so? Explain yourself. Teach me the Scientific Method, oh Wise One, and how it could possibly relate to that which is, by definition, super-natural, thus outside the realms of science.

[edit on 2010/7/6 by nenothtu]