Islam is an Advocate of Peace, Not Terror

reply to post by De La Valletta


Right fair enough on the etymology of the word “Islam” it appears you are right, it’s been a while since a done any Arabic studies, and that translation is rather complex, but i now understand where you are coming form. However as I explained above I cannot agree with you that the entirety of the Islamic people are “Evil”.

Also my last post.

reply to post by De La Valletta


Hey De La Valletta!

Originally posted by De La Valletta
It's like c-l-d which can give you

cold

Child

scold

called

culled

To try too confuse the root with totaly different words is either ignorant or deceptive. I hope it is the former.

Just wanted to point out that contrary to what you say, arabic works EXACTLY like that. Several words are derived from the same triconsonantal root. So Islam/Salam/Salim/etc. are all derived from S-L-M. While all the words derived from S-L-M may not necessarily mean exactly the same thing, the nuances there are the same.

PS: I am not a native speaker of arabic, but I have studied it somewhat. I wanted to ask, the definitions you posted, are they your own explanation, or did you paste them off from somewhere? If so, where? Do you use an online arabic dictionary? Because I am finding it very hard to locate a reliable one.
The physical arabic-english dictionary(Hans Wéhr) I have, however, translates the words you said differently:

سليم: Saleem: Safe, secure, free, unimpaired, undamaged, unhurt, sound, intact, complete, perfect, whole, integral, faultless, flawless, well, safe and sound, safe, healthy, etc.
Interestingly, searching online (at a name-meaning site, admitedly ) shows it to mean "peaceful".

اسلم: Aslam: Freer, safer, healthier, sounder.

سلما: Salama: I am unable to find this one in my dictionary (maybe it is under one of the other words), but online, both translators I'm using translate it as "peaceful".


PPS: Yul Brynner FTW!

[edit on 5-7-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


Right I did some very basic classes in Arabic, but dose what you have said mean I was originally correct in my etymology of the word “Islam”. Sorry i did say it would be my last post just wondering.

De la Valetta, I am not challenging what you have said before you start I am just wanting some clarification.

reply to post by babloyi

Do you use an online arabic dictionary? Because I am finding it very hard to locate a reliable one.

Yeah , wonder why that is?

searching online (at a name-meaning site, admitedly ) shows it to mean "peaceful".

Really , I found it to mean secure and safe at name sites too , but just remember it is in the male form and thes sites show names for boys thus saleem and not saleema.
www.babynology.com...
www.mybaby.net.au...

Then for saleema these sites translate it for the female as safe and secure respectively.
www.baby-names-meanings.net...
babynamesworld.parentsconnect.com...

They all mean to be safe from danger , saleem/saleema.

I am not surprised that you stumbled upon the translation of peace , s-l-m (does it , I wonder?) causes confusion , many are western sites who have little knowledge of arabic. Heck even many non arab speaking muslims will believe all s-l-m sounding words mean peace.

"If so, where?"

I already stated my source in a past post , the lissan-al-arab by ibn mandhour or manzour.

So you know where I got my signature from (I feel so exposed , so naked). I just loved the way he laid down the law with those words , he brought the role of RAmeses to life. can you guess who my avatar is now?

[edit on 5-7-2010 by De La Valletta]

reply to post by kevinunknown


I hope you'll excuse me for not searching back looking for what you said originally . I am lazy, and it is late.

I assume you said something along the lines of "Islam means peace"?

In that case, no, not exactly. Islam is derived from the famous S-L-M triconsonant that means "peace", yes, and perhaps shares some of its nuances, but it doesn't exactly exclusively mean "peace" itself.

Literally, "Islam" means "submission". In relation to the religion, it is understood to mean "submission to the the will of God".

I don't quite get how everyone is using this as a point against Islam, as if it is evil for that or something. Most god-believing religions would expect "Submission to the Will of God", and consider it a good thing.


reply to post by De La Valletta

Thanks for the info!
I assume it is way past any copyright, and thus legal to download freely? Because otherwise I will have to wait a while ($220 whiles, in fact), before I can get it.

*EDIT After downloading* Hahahahaha...an arabic dictionary in classical arabic. Way over my head, unfortunately . Nevermind, then.

Also, I agree with you about The Ten Commandments! And while I am a fan of awesome movies, my knowledge of oriental art is much more limited. So no, I don't really know where your avatar is from .

[edit on 5-7-2010 by babloyi]

reply to post by babloyi


thank you!

well, Jesus prayed "Not my will but thine."
same thing - submission!

but the idea is that submitting to GOD, or Allah, is in our best interests - it provides protection and a safe haven that isn't going to go away or be taken down by our enemies.

when i say enemies, i mean those who would set themselves against us, rather than those we feel enmity for. if i emulate Jesus, and love not only my neighbors and family and friends, but also my enemies - those who set out to harm me for whatever reason - then i won't have any enmity toward anyone else.

i personally don't see any difference in the benefits no matter "whose" will is appealed to. i see the "who" as only a difference in name, and not even meaning. obviously, at least to me, as a believer in there being just one Creator of all humanity, that the one I refer to as GOD is referred to by many as Allah.

a rose is a rose!

reply to post by De La Valletta


and

reply to post by kevinunknown


thank you, two, also, for your input.

in ancient Hebrew, the word shalom is generally understood as peace, and is translated, in Strong's concordance, as:

H7965
שׁלם שׁלום
shâlôm shâlôm
shaw-lome', shaw-lome'
From H7999; safe, that is, (figuratively) well, happy, friendly; also (abstractly) welfare, that is, health, prosperity, peace: - X do, familiar, X fare, favour, + friend, X greet, (good) health, (X perfect, such as be at) peace (-able, -ably), prosper (-ity, -ous), rest, safe (-ly), salute, welfare, (X all is, be) well, X wholly.

it is composed of the letters shin-lamed-mem
shin is representative of "divine power, protection, provision."

the same rules apply that you've already discussed in regard to how these languages work, both being semitic languages, in using just consonants in their original inception.

two other words also composed of shin-lamed-mem are:

H7966
שׁלּם שׁלּוּם
shillûm shillûm
shil-loom', shil-loom'
From H7999; a requital, that is, (secure) retribution, (venal) a fee: - recompense, reward.

and

H7967
שׁלּם שׁלּוּם
shallûm shallûm
shal-loom', shal-loom'
The same as H7966; Shallum, the name of fourteen Israelites: - Shallum.

if it wasn't for the diacritical marks, called niqqud, it would be impossible to tell the words apart, out of context and without knowledge and experience of the language. the same applies to the Arabic, the diacritical marks of which are called harakat, from what i understand.

the words listed as all being from S-L-M in arabic seem basically related to the same concept as in the hebrew words formed from shin-lamed-mem.

i don't see the difference, really, at all.

and i'm not sure, but it would seem to me that the real meaning would have been known by Muhammad, if it was he who gave the name to Islam. was it? i really don't know but now i'm curious...

but beyond that, still it comes down to, once again, one's own viewpoints and the circumference of their mind's perspective.

Abraham had a 360 degree view over the land of Canaan when GOD told him to look.

why can't Jews, Christians, and Muslims follow the same example of their shared patriarch???

so far, most (not all) fall quite shy of being even 180, much less full circle.

since the world is a sphere, it only makes sense that our worldview needs to evolve toward the same!

reply to post by queenannie38


Aw, that's so cute. Please send the link to the clerics in Iran and see what they have to say about it.

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by queenannie38
there is no reason for anyone to discriminate, or hate, or fear Islam or it's adherents!

Sure there is.

honestly, i don't see any reason, ever, to hate or fear or to discriminate against.

Even amongst it's non-extremist followers, Islam, like Christianity, still has a very male-centric view of the world, where women are relegated to second class citizens, who do not have the same religious rights and equalities that men do.

this is still the overtone of the world at large!
sure, women can vote now and own property, run for public office, but generally speaking, there is still no true equality in attitudes toward men and women in society.

the proof of this in the fact that the world is still oriented toward war and hostile attempts to bend the will of those who do not agree rather than to discuss and compromise with the intention of getting along rather than killing each other and tearing down what has been built up.

if men and women were truly considered of equal value and importance in this world, we'd not be having this discussion!

in some countries, apart from any religious affiliations, this is worse than in others. in some it is very bad.

many of the countries where it is very bad are Muslim countries but so are there non-Muslim countries that treat the women just as bad.

it's all heinous, if you ask me, but i don't allow it to cause me hate or fear or anything else that is going to compromise my personal ethics.

Sorry - complete rubbish. But hey - I'm not singling out Islam for being a rubbish belief system. All the rest of the organised religions are equally rubbish too.

i agree, to a certain extent. however, religion is fully within one's rights as a human, as well as the fact that not all belief systems are based in religion, because everyone has one! and many, many are truly rubbish.

what goes in is what comes out!

i also feel that the right to a peaceful and safe world is also a human right that we all SHOULD have.

but our governments do not allow it and they further stay their course by propaganda geared to make us think they are right and justified in making war on other nations full of people essentially NO DIFFERENT than us.

the differences are all superficial, in the full view of the human race being all one race, and none of them are worth dying for or killing in the name of.

so if anyone seeks to do what they can to promote peace, WHATEVER it is, and right now we in the US are definitely falling behind in THAT regard, then i will stand behind their right to do so and give my blessing to their efforts.

i don't care what their motivation or reason, if it is true effort toward making peace, then it's a good one!

and the ones behind the movement that i posted about in my OP are American citizens, so even more so do i applaud their efforts and am not willing to condemn them before they've even got out of the gates.

and the idea that this isn't a sincere effort isn't a fair judgment, especially when that is something still to be proven.

perhaps they will set an example that the rest of the country will follow - anything is possible. it is that possibility which should be given a fair chance, especially IN America!

this is a new thing, and everyone's objections are geared toward the old thing.

but the old things die.

reply to post by babloyi

Well , I'll tell ya if you'll tell me who yours is. Funny you should say asian art it's actually meso-american/mayan , does look like some hindu or khmer style art does it. It is a color depiction of the slab covering the tomb of the great Mayan king Pacal.

Whats fascinating about this slab is it seems to depict pacal in a rocket ship with breathing aperatus and all. Archeologists would tell us it's just pacal in the jaws of death , then what is that equipment he's manipulating and why is he looking through something like a periscope. One of those anomolies of archeology or proof of high civilization in the past? There's many more secrets about the slab and the tomb , I would suggest you read up on it.

Hope this wasn't too off topic.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
If it is an evil belief system , will not it's followers eventually do evil , as with naziism , satanists , The Ku Klux Klan and religions that practice human sacrifice as it is the core of their beliefs are anti-human , racist/aparthied and anathema.

if those are the criteria, then christianity and all christians are evil and WILL do evil, since it's very core IS human sacrifice!!!

fair enough

reply to post by De La Valletta


not imo - i knew who it was!

but i didn't want to butt in.

Originally posted by PunisherSupreme

Originally posted by Xeven
reply to post by queenannie38

 

Now they need to convience the ones flying planes into buildings and launching indiscrimanent attacks on civilians to stop doing it and we can all sing kum by ya together.

You must be the ONLY person on the face of the earth that still thinks 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

You must be a lonely fellow.

Yes I must be the only person left who does not think the mindless Bush and Co. would be smart enough to pull off something of this magnitude, even if they were as stupid an evil to do something like this.

There may indeed be some conspiracies that really were but this one is utterly delusional. If you truly really believe this you seriously need to get out more and see the real world.

I got to spend most of my last 12 years in the Desert fighting this war, watching real Friends die. What you been up to friend?

Do you really think most people think it was an inside job? Do you really, really think so yourself? REALLY? Eyes wide shut.



[edit on 5-7-2010 by Xeven]

Originally posted by skajkingdom
It is an IRREFUTABLE fact that Muhammad was sent as a mercy for the whole UNIVERSE

Nope. It isn't. It is not a "fact". It's conjecture and assumption at best.

Apart from an ancient text written by very biased people, there is no evidence that this person Muhammad was "sent" by anyone to do anything.

You're doing what all those silly Christians do when asked to explain their reasoning - they devolve into a circular argument that cannot be refuted because it's a logical fallacy.

You may "believe" this Muhammad chap is this and that, but it is not a fact and certainly not irrefutable!

I believe there are those that are good and those that are evil, this not only goes to muslims, but everyone all over the world.

reply to post by queenannie38

if those are the criteria, then christianity and all christians are evil and WILL do evil, since it's very core IS human sacrifice!!!

Yet where do they practice human sacrifice or even encourage it?
Seems more like peaceful martyrdom to me as Yeshua could have brought down the host of heaven if he chose to. But prophecy had to be fulfilled , jesus chose the cross. Any how moving on. In a human sacrifice the sacrificee must remain dead , christians and muslims believe he did not die , albeit with differing views on how he pulled it off.

According to apocrypha jesus descended to hell had a duel with satan in hell , preached the gospel and saved all who repented , and left satan in a smouldering heap. LOL



[edit on 5-7-2010 by De La Valletta]

Originally posted by SteveR
Annie, curious thought process.

i might say the same thing!

You are informed of Islam slaughtering whole villages and your only response is to cite crimes committed by Christianity in the dark ages.

a crime is a crime, isn't it?
and it's not like our technological advances have taken away the dark ages.
the world we live in now is pretty darn dark, all things considered.

How can you possibly excuse recent acts of extreme evil with evil by another side dating back a thousand years?

FIRST OF ALL, i am not trying, in any way, to EXCUSE any evil act, no matter who does it or why. that is exactly why i brought up the crusades - everyone seems to think that the conflict between the east and west is a new thing, somehow. and time passing does not erase the truth.

nor does it excuse any act of terrorism or other violence.
not at all.
yet it's patently hypocritical to not, at least as a TOKEN, admit that we are not totally innocent victims here as neither are they. we've bullied more people and destroyed far more villages than they ever have, i'm sure.
all in the name of "freedom" which is sorely lacking in the present time.

however, i digress...

this thread HAS NOTHING whatsoever to do, on my part, with the radical and violent side of Islam except for what everyone else has thrown into it, by what another poster called knee-jerk reactions to my ill-chosen title. i forget that other people are not so willing to get along as they are to be right and to prove that they are right, any way they can.

and so, in defending my OP, that is simply a statement echoing the article it links to and my hopes that we can ALL try to do the same, i'm accused of being off my rocker, spewing lies, and of defending acts of "extreme evil" and so on and so on. none of which are true but yet seem to be justified in the minds of my accusers since the topic is this one.

why don't you read my posts and see that i'm just trying to advocate PEACE, myself? for everyone. it has to start somewhere, and America is a wonderful place for it, IMO, especially NYC which was the home of John Lennon, one of my most beloved heroes and ideals.

at least YOU, of most everyone else on this thread, has a little more idea of what i'm about and how i am, all the time. why do you let your own problems with Islam suddenly cause you to see me as a "foe" when, if you didn't react so quickly and with such heat, you'd see is merely a result of your objection to the fact that i don't agree with the way you feel about this issue.

i don't feel the way that most people feel about this issue, including many Muslims, i'm sure. the way i feel is that i'm sick to DEATH of all the unnecessary violence for things that really don't matter, anyway, especially to those already dead~!

i'm not excusing anyone or defending anyone's violent deeds, especially not those of my own country and culture - and while i'm not a christian, i do fall closer to that than to Judaism or Islam so i feel compelled to point out that we are not without responsibility in the whole matter, at all.

What in the world is wrong with your mind??

i'm a freak of nature.
i hate violence and i desire peace for this ENTIRE world with all my being.
i do what i can to try to spread the idea.
no matter who agrees with me, if they want peace, too, then i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

if i had said "Islamic Extremist Terrorists want Peace" then i could understand your question about my mind and would probably agree because such a statement is proven untrue.

but i didn't say that, at all. i'm not talking about a terrorist group, i'm talking about a religion.

it is the same thing as saying the KKK is a terrorist group but christianity is a religion. just because the KKK are racist murderers doesn't mean that i assume all christians are. i know good and well that most want peace.

most human beings want peace in this world and that is a fact.

You are not in the slightest interested in Islam, only to defend anything and everything it does, patently. Disgusting.

actually i am, or have been, more interested than you realize. several years ago i read the q'uran and i've educated myself to a certain degree about Islam just as i do with all other religions i encounter. that's beside the point, however, its just a clarification for you.

so...call it disgusting if you like but i call it open-minded and willing to learn about all things.

and if being a peacemaker makes me hated by men that's okay because it is GOD whose opinion matters to me in these kinds of things, above all human sentiment.

peace, SteveR

Originally posted by De La Valletta
Yet where do they practice human sacrifice or even encourage it?

just once.

but once, evidently was enough.



the entire religion of christianity is based upon this image and what it represents: the blood of the slain lamb for the forgiveness of all their sin.

except the lamb is a human being.

Originally posted by queenannie38
FIRST OF ALL, i am not trying, in any way, to EXCUSE any evil act

WRONG. The fact is Islam has resulted in the eradication of entire villages. Most people would be completely disgusted. Yet your first response is to point out that Christianity may of done the same thing 1000 years ago. That is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to what is happening NOW between muslims. Your response trivializes abuse and takes focus away from the victims in order to make a superflous point that pushes your beliefs. With that kind of attitude that disregards victims, you are well on your way to becoming muslim yourself.

Originally posted by queenannie38
that is exactly why i brought up the crusades - everyone seems to think that the conflict between the east and west is a new thing

I did NOT say that in my post.

Originally posted by queenannie38
admit that we are not totally innocent victims here as neither are they

If you even understood what is happening in the world, you would know many of the victims of Islam are the Muslims themselves. Obviously you completely lost track of the discussion. I don't believe anyone has said WE are innocent victims in anything, the discussion is not about US.

Originally posted by queenannie38
we've bullied more people and destroyed far more villages than they ever have, i'm sure.

That is a huge statement to make in such a careless opinionated way. It sounds to me like you hate the West. Understand this. A third of a million people were killed in Darfur by Islamic militia men and that is in one area alone. If you truly knew the death Islam has wrought across the globe you would find your statement very hard to substantiate.

Originally posted by queenannie38
this thread HAS NOTHING whatsoever to do, on my part, with the radical and violent side of Islam

That "violent side" of Islam is not a facet but the very core of the religion and a way of life for millions. In any place governed under Islamic law (by definition, true Islam) violence is sanctioned and widespread. This has been proven in several posts here.

Originally posted by queenannie38
defending acts of "extreme evil"

You do.

Originally posted by queenannie38
you'd see is merely a result of your objection to the fact that i don't agree with the way you feel about this issue

If you don't agree with the way I feel about women being stoned to death for doing absolutely nothing wrong, or men having their heads cut off slowly with blunt knives infront of cheering crowds, you lack a heart.

Originally posted by queenannie38
the way i feel is that i'm sick to DEATH of all the unnecessary violence

If that was TRULY your position then you would oppose Islam like anyone else who is not brainwashed with their propaganda or sentiments of appeasement.

Originally posted by queenannie38
i feel compelled to point out that we are not without responsibility in the whole matter, at all.

WRONG. "We" or Christianity bears NO responsibility for the acts of violence and extreme abuse perpetrated by Islamic governments today. But I suppose everything must be the fault of the West somehow, right?

Originally posted by queenannie38
but i didn't say that, at all. i'm not talking about a terrorist group, i'm talking about a religion.

Islam IS a terrorist group. Genuinely peaceful people who claim to be Muslim have no clue of what they are apart of. Obviously, their personal priorities are to defend their identities. It is easier than facing the truth and renouncing their faith.

Originally posted by queenannie38
because the KKK are racist murderers doesn't mean that i assume all christians are.

Irrelevant. I did not come to this thread to discuss Christians or the KKK. They are a seperate issue for a seperate thread.

Originally posted by queenannie38
most human beings want peace in this world and that is a fact.

Wanting peace for yourself (where self-protection and survival is concerned) is different than wanting peace for all. In an fear-dominated system such as Islam peace is at the expense of others.

Originally posted by queenannie38
i read the q'uran

Then you and others must be reading different books.

Originally posted by queenannie38
it is GOD whose opinion matters to me in these kinds of things, above all human sentiment.

Right. I wonder what GOD would think about little girls being buried alive for adopting western values. No doubt, you will tell me such acts are carried out by an extremist few and do not represent Islam. In which case you'd be a sheltered, clueless fool.

If you are going to declare to the world that "Islam is an advocate of Peace, Not Terror" as you wrote in your thread title, you should put your money where your mouth is and go visit Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan or a number of other places. Live the life of a Muslim woman and come back to tell us how peaceful it is. Until then, your claims are empty words and you act to silence the cries of millions.

[edit on 2010/7/5 by SteveR]

reply to post by SteveR


i can answer most of what you said like this:

SteveR, you KNOW that black people have been lynched for no reason and many homes burned down, not to mention that church with the three little girls, or was it four, that were KILLED in the explosion as well as the three civil rights workers down in Mississippi during the Civil Rights Movement whose murder went UNPUNISHED for something like 40 years!!!

Christians have done this!!! American Christians. so all of them are evil and you are no exception for defending their evil acts of senseless violence on people of a different culture and skin tone.

KKK = cult
Christianity = a religion


Al Qaeda = cult
Islam = a religion


i know you are intelligent. you can see the analogy.
generalizing is stereotyping and it's prejudice.

judging BEFORE

that's not right!

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by skajkingdom
It is an IRREFUTABLE fact that Muhammad was sent as a mercy for the whole UNIVERSE

Nope. It isn't. It is not a "fact". It's conjecture and assumption.

Yes, it is a fact. When you prove the divine origin of a book, then anything that book says is a fact. And that book says: We have not sent you but as a mercy for the worlds.
Read other posts of mine for the proof.

[edit on 7/6/2010 by skajkingdom]