Islam is an Advocate of Peace, Not Terror

Each has more in common then they'd like to openly admit. That is the ultimate issue here.

All are connected by no less then 6 degrees and it is those very 6 variances that seem to cause the most chaos. Enough already.

Why are we infighting when we should be targeting THEM!

The previous series of posts by id : De La Valletta is exactly the complete Faith architecture of Islam/Muslim right there.

Follw that pattern and you could literately using the base canvas and pattern for Islam you could do a swop of a few things and see other faiths manifesto begin to pan out. All follow a basic masterstructure and that is :

Family/Faith/Community/Charity

Your regular person's masterstructure is :

God/Family/Community/Government

God (whomever or whatever you see him/her/it as) is always in the first catagory as if it were not for God the sad and plain truth is that none of us would be here today able to partake and live in this great places doing big things if it were not for God!

Family is second because ain't nothing like or even comparing to your family. Love them or hate them traditionally they are there through the good and the cruddy times and have to have your back regardless.

Community is third because if you have to abandon your community in order to keep your family safe that this allows for that. Plus so that the community cannot dictate how you interact with your family.

Government is a sad last as Govt shall not ever infringe, interfere, intervene in any of the previous 3 unless absolutely nessecary.

That is the basic substructure and foundation that makes up the foundation that all the beliefs and ideals of The United States Of America and other nations and faiths rely heavily upon.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by TheImmaculateD1]

Originally posted by skajkingdom
Yes, it is a fact. When you prove the divine origin of a book, then anything that book says is a fact. And that book says: We have not sent you but as a mercy for the worlds.
Read other posts of mine for the proof.

You can't be serious? NO ONE can prove ANYTHING is of devince origin as that is a completely untestable theory. Devine origin is simply a human invention to explain the unexplainable.

And if *you* claim it's of devine origin then you claim everything within the book is fact??

That is one of the DUMBEST things I have read on ATS in a long time.

I won't dispute your belief - that's yours and yours alone. But for you to claim a religious text as FACT merely because you claim it's of devine origin..? Dumb. And no, I won't read your prior posts as evidence of 'proof' as they are only your opinion - there is no evidence of the devine; it's merely the attribute we people assign to events, situations and concepts they don't understand.


[edit on 6-7-2010 by noonebutme]

reply to post by tamusan


I NEVER Shove My Beliefs Down Others Throats Couldnt give a crap personally about humans - survival of the fittest
I have more respect & concern for the innocent animals abused and tortured in labs.

People like you preach DESTROY Religion - Hence the Jihad you's have now

Stopping thinking all Christians are one-eyed book reading *uckwits, some of us have been to hell & through strength have become better people than we where.

Namaskaram

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by skajkingdom
Yes, it is a fact. When you prove the divine origin of a book, then anything that book says is a fact. And that book says: We have not sent you but as a mercy for the worlds.
Read other posts of mine for the proof.

You can't be serious? NO ONE can prove ANYTHING is of devince origin as that is a completely untestable theory. Devine origin is simply a human invention to explain the unexplainable.

And if *you* claim it's of devine origin then you claim everything within the book is fact??

That is one of the DUMBEST things I have read on ATS in a long time.

I won't dispute your belief - that's yours and yours alone. But for you to claim a religious text as FACT merely because you claim it's of devine origin..? Dumb. And no, I won't read your prior posts as evidence of 'proof' as they are only your opinion - there is no evidence of the devine; it's merely the attribute we people assign to events, situations and concepts they don't understand.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by noonebutme]

No, not a divine book because I CLAIM it is. But because of the many scientific facts found in Qur'an which could have not been produced by a man in the 7th century.
And regarding some of them: Not even TODAY can they be produced.

If you do not want to read those posts, then don't reject my claims a priori. THAT is just ignorant.
"I don't know what you said, but it is not true" ... Really now?


Have it your way.

reply to post by noonebutme


So, you completely avoided my take on casting all christians at paedophiles, because it would show up ignorance (by being "ignorant" to prove a point).

Ergo - you don't take on ly half a meaning and say I'm wrong (Islam does mean peace, if you've ever spoken to any Muslims about Islam (and I grew up in a predominantly Mulsim area of Manchester).

To the point of "these people"....

I was in fact inferring, nay - assuming - racism on behalf of ANYONE who regurgitates Fox news rhetoric on a supposedly intelligent forum - such as someone who would refer to all Muslims - or any religious group - as "these people". As if "they're all the same" - it just reeks of willful ignorance.

It implies "them and us" - and to imply that this thread WASN'T created with racial undertones is outright ignorance in itself - further proving my point.

So there.

[edit on 6/7/2010 by TailoredVagabond]

reply to post by skajkingdom


Give some examples of the "scientific facts" and claims that the Qur'an states and which cannot be reproduced today.

I'm keen to see what these are.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is merely a collection of anecdotes, stories and myths, written by people. Nothing in there should be taken as fact.

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Give some examples of the "scientific facts" and claims that the Qur'an states and which cannot be reproduced today.

I'm keen to see what these are.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is merely a collection of anecdotes, stories and myths, written by people. Nothing in there should be taken as fact.

There are plenty! you can use that thing called 'internet' to do your research.

Open up a webpage called google by typing www.google.com into your address bar (google is a page that allows you to search the internet). Then type "Scientific Miracles in the Quran" and press on "Search". Then you will see a list of sites.

You can also try YouTube but that is an advanced lesson.

I would recommend staying ON-TOPIC on this thread. Namely Islam PROMOTES PEACE.

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Give some examples of the "scientific facts" and claims that the Qur'an states and which cannot be reproduced today.

I'm keen to see what these are.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is merely a collection of anecdotes, stories and myths, written by people. Nothing in there should be taken as fact.

It seems you are interested in finding out more about Quran but your last sentence tells us that you have already REACHED YOUR CONCLUSION before reading or studying the book.

How smart.

Either that or you are intentionally trying to derail the thread.

Nice avatar by the way.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

Originally posted by noonebutme
reply to post by skajkingdom

 

Give some examples of the "scientific facts" and claims that the Qur'an states and which cannot be reproduced today.

I'm keen to see what these are.

Like the Bible, the Qur'an is merely a collection of anecdotes, stories and myths, written by people. Nothing in there should be taken as fact.

The Quran is not a Scientific book, it is a revelation.

Go waste someone else's time Atheist ^^

Originally posted by TailoredVagabond
So, you completely avoided my take on casting all christians at paedophiles, because it would show up ignorance (by being "ignorant" to prove a point).

No, I simply couldn't care less. I'm not a Christian or a Muslim or anything of such things - I'm an atheist. You can call anyone anything you like.

As for :

So, if you're christian AND you try to poke fun at that or simply talk rubbish about Islam as if you're educated - then by that logic, must we all assume you burn women at the stake and rape little boys???

You stated that some Muslims act as the media purports them to - in a violent way. And then if someone, a Christian, wanted to poke fun at that media stereotype of Islam & Muslims, YOUR logic implies...what? That we should all assume the Christian burns women at the stake and abuses boys..? What logic are you using? I don't understand what point you were trying to make here. I think something got lost in the original post...

Ergo - you don't take on ly half a meaning and say I'm wrong (Islam does mean peace, if you've ever spoken to any Muslims about Islam (and I grew up in a predominantly Mulsim area of Manchester).

What are you talking about? At no point did I contest the meaning of the word Islam. You're confusing me with someone else. The only thing I have pointed it is that the religious texts behind the religion(s) are just as phoney as those that perpetuate it. Yes, I do believe that the vast majority of religious people ARE harmless, good natured (albeit disillusioned) people. But the texts behind them are not.

To the point of "these people"....

I was in fact inferring, nay - assuming - racism on behalf of ANYONE who regurgitates Fox news rhetoric on a supposedly intelligent forum - such as someone who would refer to all Muslims - or any religious group - as "these people". As if "they're all the same" - it just reeks of willful ignorance.

Again, that would be an incorrect "generalisation" of a group of people as a whole. But it isn't racist. You had a pop at the words "these people" because you assume the people who used it are racist or implied racial overtones?? And then you go on to bitch about "willful ignorance" ? Mate - pot, kettle?

reply to post by noonebutme


It seems some people have a lot of time to waste!

I've never seen so much text that contributes NOTHING to the thread.

Look, let me make this simple for you.

Muslims are DISCIPLES of Islam.

Islam is defined by the Quran and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), Jesus (Hazrat), Moses (PBUH) and many other prophets.

If you have a problem with the OP then please present something intellectual by referring to the Quran or Teachings of Prophet Muhammad that contradicts the OP.

It's been tried already and they failed miserably.

Can you do better?

[edit on 6-7-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

Evidentially this person has never even open the Koran, so sad when you allow someone else to make up your mind, all a person has to do is read even part of the Koran to realize that Islam is the religion of conquest, lies, deception. Wake up before its too late and you are either in someone Harem or wearing an iron collar and working in the fields.

Originally posted by Eagleheart56
Evidentially this person has never even open the Koran, so sad when you allow someone else to make up your mind, all a person has to do is read even part of the Koran to realize that Islam is the religion of conquest, lies, deception. Wake up before its too late and you are either in someone Harem or wearing an iron collar and working in the fields.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7306125c1d0d.jpg[/atsimg]

Present quotes to support your claims.... and make sure they are in context

It's already been tried a few pages back and they failed miserably.




[edit on 6-7-2010 by PunisherSupreme]

reply to post by PunisherSupreme


OK I have been following this thread for a while now, you brought the humor back in to it hahahahahahah.

Anyways, on topic, people need to realize that:

1. Quran is a revelation, not a scientific book.

2. Quran is the only thingy I have ever heard of, which is self testable. For example, it makes a claim: God knows everything.
And the test for that saying is within the Quran. You read other passages from the Quran and see if that statement passes the test. Does the passages in the Quran come from a being which knows everything?

3. Islam means peace, GOD states in the Quran how that peace is achievable. Let me elaborate:
We human beings have been at war with each other since we can remember, since as far as our written/verbal history can remember.

Throughout the history there is conclusive evidence that we had multiple GODS, that we believed in different GODS.

Not once in history was there a time when all human beings started believing in one GOD.

The Quran repeatedly states there is one GOD, the Quran puts a huge importance on that message, and states believe in one GOD.

If we human beings were smart enough, we would have for once in our damn history give this a try. Give it a try, what have you got to loose?

Believe in one GOD, everyone of us, see what the out come is.

That is just an over view of what we are suppose to do to gain peace. There are other important aspects also, for example in the Quran GOD has qualities, in other words, GOD has names. For example the MOST merciful, the MOST just.. etc..

If we believe in GOD with such qualities, we will have a perfect system which will allow to finally have the previliage of using the Quran how it is suppose to be used.

Let me elaborate:
"GOD is the most just"
That means justice is important, then if you think you will come to conclusion that you can't gain justice without truth, which leads us to the next quality of GOD hence:
"GOD knows all"

Ultimately all those qualities, under one GOD leads to peace.

If anyone is willing to discuss this issue with me I'm deeply interested.

And I want to know what other devoted Muslims, and Muslims who are more culturally devoted think about this (yes I'm talking about Sunnis and Shias etc).

One cannot make peace with someone who wants you dead. The "radical" Muslims are those who are peace-minded and want to live in peace. So, what would a compromise be.... leaving infidels only half dead?

The Muslim religion proclaims that only the infidels will me wiped from the face of the Earth. Unfortunately, infidels means everyone who is not Muslim. EVERYONE!

The only West Bank property being occupied is that which is currently lived on by Palestinians. The Palestinians started and lost three wars with Israel, which means they are conquered lands, not occupied.

For some reason the above was double-posted.

[edit on 6-7-2010 by zappafan1]

reply to post by zappafan1


I don't know everything, but considering that there was an uneasy peace after Muhammad with Christians and Jews, and considering Muhammad destroyed 360 idols, it seems non Abrahamic people were the infedels in his day.

Doesn't make his slaughter of them right. Just saying, the definition of infidels changes.

Originally posted by zappafan1
Unfortunately, infidels means everyone who is not Muslim. EVERYONE!

Does it now?

You know, people can read now. They can CHECK what you say. You can't just post something here, or say something, imitating the medieval church knowing that only you have the scripture and the "common folk" doesn't know what's in it.


"Infidel" - as even the latin word says it, means "without faith".
A bit preposterous of you to put in there EVERYONE. Like, Christians, Jews, Budhists, Taoists, Hindus ... basically all of these people that indeed HAVE FAITH.

Originally posted by zappafan1
One cannot make peace with someone who wants you dead.

AND fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression- for, verily, GOD DOES NOT LOVE AGGRESSORS. (2:190)

Ah yes..... the religion of peace. Research happenings today, and you'll see that 85% of the places where blood flows in the streets and you'll find Muslims as the root cause. As for history, let's go back a ways and see what happened....

634—644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al—Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus

636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.

637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al—Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636)

638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

638—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.

639—642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.

641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

643—707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.

644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.

644—650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.

656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son—in—law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet's daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad's wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman's assassination. Ali's partisans win.

657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali's supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.

661—680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

673—678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad's grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad's death.

705 Abd al—Malik restores Umayyad rule.

710—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

711—713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governor

732 The Muslim Crusaders stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance

749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids

756 Foundation of Umayyid amirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids

762 Foundation of Baghdad

785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova

789 Rise of Idrisid amirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia

807 Caliph Harun al—Rashid orders the destruction of non—Muslim prayer houses and of the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem

809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy

813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country

831 Muslim Crusaders capture Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy

850 Caliph al—Matawakkil orders the destruction of non—Muslim houses of prayer

855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)

837—901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France

869—883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq

909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia

928—969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969)

937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places

937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked

960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam

966 Anti—Christian riots in Jerusalem

969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo

c. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East

973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids

1003 First persecutions by al—Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed

1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al—Hakim (see 937)

1012 Beginning of al—Hakim's oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians

1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses

1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus

1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed

1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (aka Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate

1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection

1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia

1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine

1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)

1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia

1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana

1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies

1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca

1090—1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands

1094 Byzantine emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 970

1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099

So it is only after all of the Islamic aggressive invasions that Western Christendom launches its first Crusades.

reply to post by zappafan1

The Muslim religion proclaims that only the infidels will me wiped from the face of the Earth. Unfortunately, infidels means everyone who is not Muslim. EVERYONE

This is one of those times when you can easily use the Internet or texting slang LOL

See if you had the ability to think, you would have came to the conclusion that infidels can be wiped out without killing them, get it?

Do we even need elaboration on that?

Murder is forbidden in Islam, that includes the murder of infidels.

And next time please quote the Quran, and let us know which verse and which chapter.