World tired of us: Israeli minister

reply to post by PunisherSupreme


I understand what you are saying and i agree the people who shout down any and all criticism of Israel by playing on the holocaust are shameful. However i do not think it is factually correct to take the actions of some people who do abuse the memory of the holocaust as a means of silencing opposition and make a blanket statement that most Jewish people do this.

If you check back i'm not a supporter of Israel so don't think this is an extremist zionist replying, i am just being even handed.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by Mdv2


In light of all that has been said, I will have to agree with YOU sir. I am no longer Christian. I believe it is a DEATH CULT what with people becoming "symbolically reborn" and a guy who may never have existed other than symbolically, "dieing on the cross." Some people just take it too seriously for me to be a part of it, which is why I subscribe to a PHILOSOPHY (Taoism) rather than some lame duck religion. And no, so called CHRISTIANS, I am iin NO MOOD TO DEBATE. I BELIEVE IT IS WHAT IT IS.

www.youtube.com...

Did Satan convince man to kill each other in the name of religion?

I shall worship NOTHING, especially not the Good cop/Bad cop religion that is Christianity in general, nor "some submission to a higher deity" known as Islam. I find Judaism OK though, TBH. My neighborhood has a Jewish center, temple, a couple scholls, and they tend to keep to themselves, not get feverish about "converting people".

I USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN, AND I MET SOME SCUMBAGS IN THE PROCESS!

Amen.

reply to post by Mdv2


In light of all that has been said, I will have to agree with YOU sir. I am no longer Christian. I believe it is a DEATH CULT what with people becoming "symbolically reborn" and a guy who may never have existed other than symbolically, "dieing on the cross." Some people just take it too seriously for me to be a part of it, which is why I subscribe to a PHILOSOPHY (Taoism) rather than some lame duck religion. And no, so called CHRISTIANS, I am in NO MOOD TO DEBATE. I BELIEVE IT IS WHAT IT IS.

www.youtube.com...

Did Satan convince man to kill each other in the name of religion? I think so

I shall worship NOTHING, especially not the Good cop/Bad cop religion that is Christianity in general, nor "some submission to a higher deity" known as Islam. I find Judaism OK though, TBH. My neighborhood has a Jewish center, temple, a couple scholls, and they tend to keep to themselves, not get feverish about "converting people".

I USED TO BE A CHRISTIAN, AND I MET SOME REAL DEAL SCUMBAGS IN THE PROCESS! LIKE MY FORMER YOUTH MINISTER for instance.

Amen.

[edit on 3-7-2010 by Masinger]

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by nenothtu
It's not like they're engaging in war against Israel every bit as hard as Israel is engaging in war against them, now is it? They're fine folks, who only want the rest of us to support their erasure of Israel.

What's so bad about that?

They are? You wouldn't know it from the body bag count on both sides. Hell, Israel does all they can to prevent Palestine from engaging in war at all. See the many threads here on both of these matters.

Somehow, they still manage to sneak some attacks through, though, now don't they?

I think it would be a great way to demonstrate just WHO is on the offense, and WHO is on the defense, if the Palestinians would stop shooting for a while, and see how Israel reacts. The world's eyes are drawn there, and Israeli aggression in the face of non-aggression would surely get a reaction.

As it is, Israel can point to the daily attacks as justification for their actions. If the Palestinians put a stop to that, and Israel took unfair advantage of that stoppage, Israel would be in a WORLD of hurt, and Palestinians would gain a lot more support than they have already.

It seems a smart strategic move to make, given the current situation and world opinion. Strategically, it would come a lot closer to forcing Israel to the negotiations table.

It's probably just a lot more fun to blow stuff up, though. Furthermore, as long as the world only sees one side of the attacks, the Palestinians can continue to play the "victim" card, which is one thing they learned from Israel VERY well.

Edit to add: You're an intelligent individual, Intrepid, and you know as well as I do that one of the axioms of war is to destroy your opponent's capacity to fight a war, so I can't really fault Israel for that. The Palestinians do the same, but they employ propaganda to influence public opinion for that purpose, rather than a blockade. Each fights according to their strengths and abilities.

[edit on 2010/7/3 by nenothtu]

reply to post by mamabeth


Problem is, mamabeth, I do not actually beleive in heaven or hell as you would. I see things differently. I take very little literally especially mythology. So I personally do not beleive I will go to hell, for I don't beleive in it per se, but you must conclude that I will, for you beleive in it and that it is reserved for all those that do not accept Jesus as the saviour and son of god.

Just a question tho, is the deadline for repentence anytime before the messiah reveals himself or is there a specific date or perhaps some other event that denotes 'last drinks' so to speak?

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Yes, there is certainly a marginal (and growing) minority of Jews that DO NOT believe in the state of Israel.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

Those that are perpetrating crimes of today are Zionists and use Judaism as a cover.

However, the population of Israel are Jewish in the main (as they call themselves) and support a tyrannical terrorist regime (wether leftists or rightists).

Also, most Jews *by name* across the world have an alliance with Israel.

Why else do you think the world is going to hell right now?

I would say a clear majority do indeed support the evil that is Israel- but that in no way includes ALL of them.

Originally posted by Masinger
reply to post by Mdv2

 

I shall worship NOTHING, especially not the Good cop/Bad cop religion that is Christianity in general, nor "some submission to a higher deity" known as Islam. I find Judaism OK though, TBH.

Amen.

Are you joking?

ALL THREE WORSHIP ONE GOD.

LOL,

It seems you need to study what those relgions actually are before you find one that is 'OK'.

"Aight my homie?"

reply to post by nenothtu


Sorry for posting a comment from another thread, but this has been brought up so many times that there is no need for editing:




Expanding Jewish settlements is not protecting its citizens, continuing the occupation is not protecting its citizens.

Palestinians have peacefully protested these actions for a long time until the 2nd intifada when they just lost it and the extreme faction of the Palestinian people were given the thumbs up to fight and defend the Palestinians.

After all that was the reason for choosing Hamas.

How can we solve the issue?

The issue can be solved when there is balance, when Israel's security is truly at risk, home made fireworks being thrown towards Israel is not a security risk, car crashes kill more people in Israel than those home made fireworks.

That being said, once Israel truly sees security risk arising in regards to its continuous settlement expansions, and continuous occupations, that is when it will come to the table and start negotiating for a peace plan.

Israel has nothing to gain from peace:

stirred an outburst of anger amongst Palestinians, exasperated by the stagnation of the peace process, as well as by the continuing occupation and settlement expansion.

The violent repression of Palestinian demonstrations demanding the immediate ending of the occupation killed more than 200 Palestinians in one month, of which one third was under 17 years old. To respond to this brutality, the Intifada became militarised as from the beginning of November 2000.

Palestinians peacefully protested for a long time, I feel for them.

Among the many reasons for the start of the second Palestinian intifada in September 2000, the massive expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and Gaza must count as the most important.


The 1993 Oslo Accords signed by the PLO and Israel were meant to reconcile Palestinian aspirations for self-determination and statehood and the existence of Israel. In fact, an aggressive policy of settlement expansion and consolidation took place over the following seven years. More Arab land was taken over and more Palestinian homes were bulldozed, more exclusively Jewish roa

In between the time of the Oslo Accord and the 2nd intifada:

When Yasser Arafat and Yitzak Rabin shook hands on the White House lawn in September 1993 there were about 115,000 Jewish settlers in West Bank and Gaza. By the time of the second intifada seven years later there were more than 200,000 of them. Reports suggest another 1,500 families (17,000 people) have been added to this total during 2001, more than the 400 settler families that have moved back to Israel under the impact of the intifada.

And Seriously, GAZA:

Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33 per cent of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps.
Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers. Yet the Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40 per cent of Gaza's land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza.

No justice no peace, don't forget that.

When people talk of Paestinian aggression they seem to confuse the government with small splinter groups of extremists. During the few ceasefires that have been brokered it is usually the small groups of nut jobs who break it and the Palestinian government has even sent out large amounts of troops to try and stop these attacks during the ceasefires. Israel of course responds with almighty force in retaliation to small attacks. That is not to excuse the attacks from the extremists of course it is just to show a seriously disproportional response.

The other way Israel retaliates is by cutting off aid. During one of the ceasefires trucks were allowed in and they were supposed to be increased in number as the peace went on. Now some scumbag extremist palestinians broke the ceasefire, the government sent out the troops to try and prevent further attacks. Now Israel had a choice, retaliate or accept that Palestine was doing all they could to prevent further attacks. So what did Israel do? They started cutting down on the number of aid trucks allowed in, this increased tensions, the attacks increased and it all fell apart.

To put this into perspective it's like if the UK had small groups of extremists firing rockets into France and even though the UK government tries to stop it and even deploys troops to try and prevent further attacks the French government just bombs London into a flat dusty mess.

Reading through this thread...

No matter where you go in this world, people from allover this planet are angry and disgusted by israel's politics and behaviour.

It's like history is repeating itself since it's not the first time when jews acted arrogantly and looked everyone else down ... not only what happened in in 30-40's ..that we all know, but before that in history as well. I personally know some Israelis and I'm ashamed to say this but truth is they really are arrogant bunch of thieves who think everyone else is their servant and they are the most important people in this world. If that's how you behave and your attitude is, what a suprise is it that you find yourself with bloody nose soon again?

Originally posted by PunisherSupreme

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by PunisherSupreme

 

I don't think it is right to take the actions of a few people and extrapolate it out to all Jews. That's as bad as those in this thread who have labelled anyone against Israel to be anti-semetic.

You must be joking right?

You have heard of them milking the so called 'holocaust' haven't you (see my video)?

You heard of them milking the ill-used 'anti-semitism' haven't you?

In the main, the Jews and Zionists have indeed hid behind such drama and have indeed caused corruption and malice through the entire world.

There is NO question of that anymore.

There is certainly no question that there are a lot hate-filled people on here who would blame all the world's ills on Jews in general and Israel in particular, instead of looking in their own back yards.

Does anyone really think that Israel wants rockets being launched against their cities from locations in Gaza and south Lebanon? Or wants terrorists blowing up busloads of their children?

The Palestinians have so many factions that they can't even get their act together to form a unified front against Israel, not to mention actually negotiate a meaningful settlement WITH Israel.

I guess it's all part of some Zionist "Bigger Plan", huh?

Dare I say it? Anti-semites and neon-nazis DO seem inclined to believe the crazier conspiracy theories.

Originally posted by LittleSecret

 

Expanding Jewish settlements is not protecting its citizens, continuing the occupation is not protecting its citizens.

See, there's the problem right there. The use of the term "occupation" regarding Israel betrays a political bias, and is factually incorrect. Israel is the legitimate government. Deal with it. Calling it an "occupation" is like calling the government of France an "occupying force".

An "occupation" is like the Nazis did to several European countries in WWII, it's like what Rome did to most of the known world at that time, it's like what the US is doing in Iraq.

It's NOT Like what America is doing to America, or England is doing to England, or France is doing to France, or Israel is doing to Israel.

Palestinians have peacefully protested these actions for a long time until the 2nd intifada when they just lost it and the extreme faction of the Palestinian people were given the thumbs up to fight and defend the Palestinians.

After all that was the reason for choosing Hamas.

You should perhaps research the history of the area prior to the SECOND intifada, and Hamas, and tell me how that era was "peaceful".

The issue can be solved when there is balance, when Israel's security is truly at risk, home made fireworks being thrown towards Israel is not a security risk, car crashes kill more people in Israel than those home made fireworks.

Oh. OK. That clarifies it for me. It's ok to kill Israeli civilians indiscriminately as long as you use "homemade fireworks" to do it, and an accidental death in a car crash justifies intentional deaths in rocketry and bombing. Got it.

Sheesh. Why is Israel bothering to retaliate at all then? I mean, if those things are OK now...

Israel has nothing to gain from peace:

Israelis are human, no different than you, I, or the Palestinians. They have EVERYTHING to gain from peace. Not the least of which may be improvement of world opinion towards them.

The violent repression of Palestinian demonstrations demanding the immediate ending of the occupation killed more than 200 Palestinians in one month, of which one third was under 17 years old. To respond to this brutality, the Intifada became militarised as from the beginning of November 2000.

Translation: Palestinians attacked Israelis, got smacked down in response, then militarized their attacks and tried again.

That pretty much cover it?

Palestinians peacefully protested for a long time, I feel for them.

When? When did the Palestinians "peacefully protest" without concurrently waging war as well?

And Seriously, GAZA:

Gaza, one of the most densely populated tracts of land in the world, is home to 1,178,000 Palestinians, 33 per cent of whom live in United Nations-funded refugee camps.
Gaza is also home to 6,900 Jewish settlers. Yet the Israeli-controlled areas and settlements take up about 40 per cent of Gaza's land. Israel controls all external borders, crossing points and major roads in Gaza.

I'm not sure how old that information is, so can't really make a current comment on it, except to say that they might be able to get rid of the "refugee camps" if they were to stop waging war on Israel, and focus instead on improving their own lives. Israel tried to wash their hands of responsibility for Gaza before, and let them determine their own fate, and got attacked for that action in response by Hamas, the government of Gaza.

If they looked to improving their own lives, rather than destroying someone else's, Israel would have no choice but to let them alone, to police their own borders.

You understand the concept of "blockade", and the reasons blockades are employed, right?

No justice no peace, don't forget that.

I guess it boils down to peace on whose terms, and who gets to decide what constitutes "justice". Since the Hamas charter calls for the dissolution of Israel, I can't really fault Israel for not agreeing to peace on those terms. It would be counter-productive to Israeli interests, same as prosecuting a war against people who weren't attacking them would be.

I'd lay it the other way round: No peace, no justice.

reply to post by ALlENATlON

Oh poor little you. HOW DARE YOU call us pigs and jew haters. Every day l watched what the lsraeli government did to those poor people of Gaza. Day after day, night after night they bombed and rained phospherous bombs down on innocent men, women and children. Also babies in their cots, shot in the head, close range. The lsraelis knew exactly what they were doing, apart from the war or should l say massacre on Gaza. l. lt was a good arms display for other countries so they could sell their weapons. 2, the phospherous not only burns through BONE but when it is inhaled it alters the DNA. so the chances are women will give birth to deformed babies. 3. lt also causes cancer. So basicaly, What the lsraelis have done by this act is ensure that in 25yrs time the Gazans will be all but wiped out. Then the prime land will be theirs to turn into a tourist resort. You must think the whole world is blind BUT WERE NOT. The world watched while parents picked up their children with their limbs missing. As a matter of fact, l have friends who are jewish, they are just as disgusted and heartbroken that the lsraelis have committed these crimes. l suggest you do some REAL research, find out who Hitlers mother was related to. btw, my God doesnt like your god cos if he condones all of the above he`s just NASTY.
Because of the blockade, people with cancers and other life threatening illnesses cant get medication. FEEL PROUD, FEEL VERY PROUD. peace starchild.

I think everyone is being played like a fiddle.

TPTB clearly fund and run both sides of this. The Western side and the Islamic bloc.

Why is everyone taking sides? I mean come on, this conflict was generated for one purpose to make you hate Israel to justify a large scale conflict in the region.

It's coming just look at everyone's opinions.

Ask yourselves, would you back a international effort to use military force to "stop Israel"???

If so, you have been played by the best psy-ops agents out there.

The War Against Israel "has to happen", it's in their prophecies and their religions. This is all set up.

I am personally just against having a war vs either party. I would like to see the situation cool off. But that ain't gonna happen.

The water is starting to boil my friends....

[edit on 3-7-2010 by muzzleflash]

reply to post by Titan Uranus


Well think about your own words. Do any of them deserve land back? Do men filled with hate deserve a nation for which to unify their hatred in war? Do a people filled with hate deserve a land for which to grow their hatred in their crops and children?

Logic dictates that not one shred of land should be given to any people in that region.

Logic dictates that we do what has worked best. And in that region, the best peace has been done when no one there had a nation. Weather it be under Saladin or the British. Peace was in the region when a foreign power controlled it.

I think the best solution is a UN state called Israelistan. The UN would control it for 100 years. When the generation of hatred has died off, and their children's children have forgotten why there was a war, then we can begin transitioning them into a single nation with both of them within.


If they want to do it biblically, God promised Abraham the land. To their beliefs, both children are the sons of Abraham. So it is Biblically sound.

Originally posted by nenothtu
Somehow, they still manage to sneak some attacks through, though, now don't they?

Some attacks? Later in this post you say daily attacks, which is not true. Their pitiful attacks, which seldom hurt anyone, let alone kill Israeli's are matched with modern tech military hardware. One would ask, why do they shoot their rockets? Because they are treated terribly.

As it is, Israel can point to the daily attacks as justification for their actions. If the Palestinians put a stop to that, and Israel took unfair advantage of that stoppage, Israel would be in a WORLD of hurt, and Palestinians would gain a lot more support than they have already.

You mean like what happened with the aid flotilla? No. No matter what Israel does there are still those that say Israel was within its rights. The spin is put on, those that believe Israel can do no wrong continue to believe such. The problem is ignored and the Palestinian people are left with nothing, no recourse, except their pathetic rockets.

It's probably just a lot more fun to blow stuff up, though. Furthermore, as long as the world only sees one side of the attacks, the Palestinians can continue to play the "victim" card, which is one thing they learned from Israel VERY well.

Ah, they are also learning to spread propaganda too. Another lesson they learned well from Israel.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by LittleSecret

 

Expanding Jewish settlements is not protecting its citizens, continuing the occupation is not protecting its citizens.

See, there's the problem right there. The use of the term "occupation" regarding Israel betrays a political bias, and is factually incorrect. Israel is the legitimate government. Deal with it. Calling it an "occupation" is like calling the government of France an "occupying force".

I debate this as well. What do you call it when someone comes on your land kicks you off and then lives there? Sounds like "occupation" to me.



Edit: The pic is too wide. Open it in another window to see what the Palestinians are living on today.



[edit on 3-7-2010 by intrepid]

reply to post by intrepid


Thank you for trying but me and you both know your research will fall on to def years, or in this case blind eyes.

I didn't want to respond for a reason.

I enjoyed reading your posts

[edit on 3-7-2010 by LittleSecret]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


When a country starts claiming that they are right and the entire rest of the world is wrong, watch out. Tread carefully, Israel.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by nenothtu
Somehow, they still manage to sneak some attacks through, though, now don't they?

Some attacks? Later in this post you say daily attacks, which is not true. Their pitiful attacks, which seldom hurt anyone, let alone kill Israeli's are matched with modern tech military hardware. One would ask, why do they shoot their rockets? Because they are treated terribly.

I stand corrected on the "daily attacks" statement.

Do you mean "seldom" as in "never" hurt anyone? Is it OK for people to chuck rockets at your house, as long as no one gets hurt? Are attacks ok if folks are only killed in them "seldom"?

As it is, Israel can point to the daily attacks as justification for their actions. If the Palestinians put a stop to that, and Israel took unfair advantage of that stoppage, Israel would be in a WORLD of hurt, and Palestinians would gain a lot more support than they have already.

You mean like what happened with the aid flotilla? No. No matter what Israel does there are still those that say Israel was within its rights. The spin is put on, those that believe Israel can do no wrong continue to believe such. The problem is ignored and the Palestinian people are left with nothing, no recourse, except their pathetic rockets.

I mean EXACTLY like what happened with the "aid" flotilla. I've already treated that subject extensively elsewhere, in a thread dedicated to it, and won't rehash it here.

Palestinian recourse? Here's a thought that I've put out in this thread before, but it may bear a slight repeating: how about taking recourse to NOT attacking, thus gaining moral high ground if Israel persists? I STILL say Israel would be in a world of hurt if that were to occur, especially with world opinion in the state it is currently.

I've not said "Israel can do no wrong", I've said that remains to be seen. Stopping the rockets and bombings would demonstrate that, one way or another.

It's probably just a lot more fun to blow stuff up, though. Furthermore, as long as the world only sees one side of the attacks, the Palestinians can continue to play the "victim" card, which is one thing they learned from Israel VERY well.

Ah, they are also learning to spread propaganda too. Another lesson they learned well from Israel.

That's a fact, and I'll make no bones nor denial about it!

[edit on 2010/7/3 by nenothtu]

[edit on 2010/7/3 by nenothtu]