I'm A Mac... And I Have Dirty Little Secret

I love the hypocrisy of that video about "tell your company to stop buying conflict minerals" What? Did she make that video with a light bright? No. She probably made it with a mac.

So what are we supposed to do? Stop using computers? Hilarious. The entire planet uses computers every single day and the numbers are only growing. Business are all going online. This means more and more people are going to be using computers.

What makes me angry is people saying dont buy this or that because children are being hurt. If they live in a hostile environment WHY ARE THE WOMAN HAVING CHILDREN? Why is this question never answered? If I lived in a place where my kids could be kidnapped and raped at any time I wouldnt have any and I would have a great reason not to.

I love reading about "oh the children this and the children that". Why dont we read about "Woman jailed for having children in a hostile region" Sound ludicrous right? Only because society brain washes you into thinking so. You wouldnt have children being raped etc if there was no children. If you live in poverty why have kids?

I own my own house, I own both my cars. I have a great job and so does my wife. We could easily afford to raise a child but we are waiting still. I cant stand seeing woman with a baby in one arm, a kid pushing a stroller with a baby in it and another child walking with all of them. When is this question going to be raised? SHOULD YOU BE HAVING KIDS? Probably not.

Originally posted by airspoon
They are going to fight regardless as they are uncivilized and that's just what they do.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by airspoon]

Says a man with a soldier for an avatar.

No one is saying that the minerals are causing the fighting anyway. It's a circle; these minerals fuel wars that happened, and happen more thanks to that funding. The point is that we could cut off one of the avenues of funding that they can take. They would then have less resources to butcher each other with. You act as if we think this is cut and dry cause and effect, or as if you can't conceive of a wrong-doing as anything but cut-and-dry cause-and-effect.

reply to post by illusion987

I'll go ahead and ignore the MASSIVE IGNORANCE of just about EVERYTHING in your post about social conditions. (Why don't they stop having kids? Well, the fact that they're being raped might contribute to that. The fact that humans tend to have a drive to reproduce, especially in circumstances where only a percentage of the children survive... The fact that... ARRRGH, I was ignoring this.)

But she's not calling on us to just stop buying and using computers. she wants us to use them more conscientiously; to tell Dell and Apple that this practice is unacceptable, and they need to change it. Yes, we don't have much leverage, since the computers are such a key part of our society; but maybe we can not buy any NEW products until they change, at least personally.

Originally posted by Solasis

Originally posted by airspoon
They are going to fight regardless as they are uncivilized and that's just what they do.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by airspoon]

Says a man with a soldier for an avatar.

No one is saying that the minerals are causing the fighting anyway. It's a circle; these minerals fuel wars that happened, and happen more thanks to that funding. The point is that we could cut off one of the avenues of funding that they can take. They would then have less resources to butcher each other with. You act as if we think this is cut and dry cause and effect, or as if you can't conceive of a wrong-doing as anything but cut-and-dry cause-and-effect.

So what if I have an military avatar, I'm a retired veteran. What does that have to do with the funding of child murder? Are you trying to suggest that I'm somehow on par with these heathens?

My point was, that it doesn't matter whether these companies fund them or not, as they would be doing this kind of thing anyway. That's what these types of heathens do. Whether they murder a child with a rifle or their bare-hands, really doesn't make a difference. Also, having been to Africa myself, I suspect that these thugs spend a large portion of that money on drugs anyway Which is helping to kill them. Also, if they weren't making money from this, then they would be terrorizing others to fund their escapades. Again, my use of technology does not make these people do what they do, rather it's their savagery that makes them do what they do.

Do I support giving these types of people money? Absolutely not, but their really is no reasoning with these heathens and these minerals make life possible for people who would otherwise not be able to carry on. These minerals also contribute to our modern era so we would have to be buying the resources anyway. The only other option is storm in their and put these people to death, allowing us to get the minerals even cheaper and allowing the women, children and civilized people of the region to prosper.

--airspoon

Edited to add:
These people aren't soldiers, they are criminals and heathens.

[edit on 27-6-2010 by airspoon]

reply to post by airspoon


*Snip* have perpetrated towards these "heathens" go since your very use of the term "Heathen" and your superiority complex towards them just demonstrates that you will never, ever be able to get past your idiotic prejudices and actually THINK about the issue at hand. Instead, I'll focus on your avatar.

You said "They fight. They're uncivilized. it's what they do."

Soldiers fight. You were a soldier. Are you uncivilized? Why did you fight? To protect your home? And you don't think most of these "heathen" soldiers started off protecting themselves? Of course they did. They learned to fight because if they didn't they would become a victim. The problem is, that each generation in places like "uncivilized" Africa will take it too far. In order to avoid becoming a victim, they instead become a victimizer, which generates the next generation of soldiers. You can see the exact same thing happening in gang warfare in our own country. No one who isn't under threat is genuinely helping those who are threatened by the maniacs, so with time they become the maniacs themselves.

But, of course, I strayed into "these people are human" territory, so you're going to dismiss everything I've said. How very civilized of you.

(Of course, there are SOME people who aren't under threat who DO help them, but there are so few of them.)

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/27/2010 by semperfortis]

The action? - Don't buy a new cellphone every year and 3 new keyboards every months! No need to buy every new useless gadget that gets out because it has that one new feature!

But who am I kidding? When I ask people why they need 4-ton SUVs they give me most ridiculous arguments preventing any rational response I'd otherwise give to a mentally sane person... I just wonder if the person is on drugs or truly insane.

So, subjects like these are usually a dead end discussion.... But anyways, action is - buy less useless crap!

reply to post by Solasis


There is a difference between being a soldier and raping women and children. There is a big difference between putting your armed enemy in the cross hairs and putting a child in the cross hairs. Do I have a superiority complex? No, but I do think that I'm better than a child rapist/murderer. I think you are better than a child murderer. Does this mean that I have a superiority complex?

Also, I don't think that they are uncivilized because they fight, I think that they are uncivilized because they rape and torture women and children. Which part of getting high and raping and dismembering children is considered to be protecting yourself?

Make no mistake about it, they aren't soldiers and they really having in common with soldiers. These thugs just happen to be criminals who grouped together to terrorize the populace while falsely claiming to be "soldiers". In fact, they don't even resemble soldiers. Are their some soldiers in that region? Sure, but very few. It takes a lot more than picking up a weapon and firing it at your enemy (or others), to be a soldier. There is a lot more to it than that. I can say one thing for sure, picking up a rifle or knife and raping women and children does not make you a soldier, it makes you a criminal thug.

Of course, not everyone there is a thug or heathen, but the last thing that we want to do, is disarm those people or stop their funding. Sadly, most of these fighters are thugs and clearly outnumber those who aren't.

--airspoon

reply to post by airspoon


Apparently, then, I misinterpreted you. Wait, no, I didn't misinterpret you; you said "They fight because they're uncivilized." You misexpressed yourself. The part where you said "They fight because they're uncivilized" with no particular mention of the rape is where I got thrown. Sorry for taking you at your word.

reply to post by illusion987


I'm sorry but that's the post of an 8yr old

because of exploitation we shouldn't do anything that is a potential target of exploitation????

what kind of planet is that?

[edit on 27-6-2010 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by Solasis
reply to post by airspoon

 

Apparently, then, I misinterpreted you. Wait, no, I didn't misinterpret you; you said "They fight because they're uncivilized." You misexpressed yourself. The part where you said "They fight because they're uncivilized" with no particular mention of the rape is where I got thrown. Sorry for taking you at your word.

I used the term "fighting" because that is what they call it. They actually consider going into villages and slaughtering children to be "fighting. Then, using the context of the thread, I used the term "fighting", since the thread was about stopping these evil-doers through the censuring of corporations. You took that word out of context.

--airspoon

Originally posted by jaynkeel
It is stories like these that further my belief that perhaps there is no god. Well no god as described in the bible, caring, wise, thoughtful. Because if there was an he let this madness go on in this world like what we hear and witness day in and out then he must be one messed up dude to sit by and watch this cruel treatment of human beings. As far as doing anything to stop it boycott those products all you want it will do no good. To many people don't give a damn about their own children let alone other people and their children. Lot's of luck folks seems every day we as a civilization keep getting worse and worse, hurry up 2012, niburu or other calamity as I think it's time for an intervention.

When one group of humans is indoctrinated to view another group as less than human, and not to be treated with any level of dignity, this is what happens.

The god whom modern Westerners like to imagine as being the "god of the bible" never existed.

The god portrayed in the Bible has a code which few if any humans can satisfy. S/he kills humans by the thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands on what appears to be little more than a whim. Most of the killing in the Old testament was done by god's favored people.

According to the Old Testament, the god of the bible killed every human and living creature on the planet except the few chosen to ride out the flood on Noah's ark.

Whole populations are wiped out because a few of their members have offended, or because their presence is inconvenient to the favored few whom god has chosen to displace them.

He killed all the innocent first-born male babies and children of a disfavored population so that his favored people would be "let go".

The New Testament says that god is unchanging.

My source: The Bible.

Go figure. Then tell me where I'm wrong.


[edit on 6/27/2010 by dubiousone]

reply to post by ModernAcademia


The truth hurts doesn't it? Sometimes you have to get nasty to get clean... Ever wonder where and how gangs are formed? Ill give you a scenario...

Lets say woman "A" has three kids. Pretty average for a woman that is lower class. Now woman "A" doesn't have a car and barely can afford rent because she works at some minimum wage restaurant. Woman "A"'s kids start to grow up.

The kids attend public school. Child "A" hears his friends talking about the new xbox 360 they just got for Christmas. Child "A" didn't get anything for Christmas or for his birthday for that matter. Child "A" sure wishes he got something nice, but will never because his mother will never afford it.

Child "A" grows up and talks to new friend who is in a gang already. Gang participant tells child "A" he could make some serious money quick in this gang.

Gee, I wonder what child "A" is going to do. He could maintain his life with nothing always on the outside looking in or he could join a gang and have cash whenever he wants. The choice he makes is obvious. The solution to this problem however is not obvious and for a lot of people its cruel and in humane.

No one ever looks at the mother. They always want to come up with "programs" to get the kids off the street etc. How about a program to stop mothers from having kids? Here Ill make one. It will be called TKMFHK to keep mothers from having kids.

Why is this topic so off limits? Why cant we say "Hey, you are living way above your means" you should not be allowed to have kids. Where did we get this notion that we have to have kids? I know its ingrained in us to procreate. This was great 100 years ago when having 10 kids for slave labor on a farm was the norm. But now is city life where you actually have to get a job out there to make money and there are not enough jobs. You cant just make food for yourself anymore. You have to make paper money.

I cant stand seeing that dude that walks in front of that train talking about giving money for the starving children. WHY ARE THERE CHILDREN TO BE STARVED? And WHY IS NO ONE ADDRESSING THIS? Its always about feed the children when it should be about programs cracking down on too many kids. China has a nice program in place. One child per house hold. I think they should take it even further and take a look at the lifestyle of the would be parents and see if even one child is sustainable for a good life. I know some of you will think my views are terrible but its only because your narrow minded and dont look at the big picture. Over population and gangs are a big problem that could be easily solved in 30-50 years.

I could be ignorant but I dont know of any gang bangers that were brought up in wealthy families that just decided one day to gang bang...Something to think about.

I think the only way to deal with this is pass laws forbidding the use of "conflict" items, or those made exploititavely. Human nature seems to involve a race to the lowest price, or the most profit, the capitalist nature.

I have to admit I bought the cheapest motherboard for my PC I could find, I was a little disappointed when I realised just how bad the manufacturer of it - Foxconn(The same company who Apple uses) - is.

It seems only natural that many/most people will want to buy the cheapest product, or that companies will want to make the most profit, and as long as we can treat ethical questions as "out of sight, out of mind", it's just going to continue.

Also, if we stop using these exploitative counties for these minerals and products derived from them, maybe it will make more mining and manufacturing job in our own country again.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Here's a list of 21 companies that use conflict products
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9db4ef4af0a5.jpg[/atsimg]

Rape as a Weapon of War
Eastern Congo is caught in an epidemic of appalling sexual violence, as militias use rape as a military tactic to destroy communities. Congolese women and girls in particular bear the vicious brunt of this crisis. Indeed, eastern Congo right now is the most dangerous place in the world to be a woman or a girl.

Minerals Fueling the Fight
Greed for Congo’s mineral wealth has been a prime cause of the atrocities and conflict, and multiple armed groups use mass rape as a deliberate strategy to intimidate and control communities as they profit from the illicit trade in Congo’s conflict minerals – tin, tungsten, tantalum, and gold. Many of these same conflict minerals end up in our own electronic devices such as cell phones, laptops, and digital cameras.
www.raisehopeforcongo.org...

I am not at all religious and not at all a fan of any abrahamic religion.
I am mostly agnostic

However many atheists often express their dislike of the bible saying as soon as you are born you are sinful.

It's funny despite that statement sucking royally... it does have some unfortunate truth to it.

Every day we touch and use products that we bought that is made from conflict products.

Because of the ease of our everyday life and us waking up to a happy family in the morning, we read the paper with a glass of orange juice or a coffee and wonder what's with these crazy people we are reading about in other parts of the country.
However our very society and our ease of life costs others to be condemned to a living hell, especially women out there.

There truly is a matrix

lol that was a stupid mac attack. It was clearly demonstrating that both companies are getting their minerals from these conflict countries. There is very little evidence that any of these companies actually facilitate or even know about whats going over there but whatever.

Originally posted by pavelivanov22
Apple is no better than Microsoft they just want your money more

Actually, Microsoft owns Apple. Therefore, the I'm a PC adds are a joke on many fronts.

As for the topic, I'm not sure we can do that much. 10% of us, at most, asking for non-conflict materials won't make them beat an eyebrow. In the end, if we want their products, we don't have a choice.

The only way to stop this, and just about everything else that's wrong in the world today, is to put an end to corporations. Short of a global disaster, I'm not sure how that could be done.

So what happens when we stop giving money to the Africans for the minerals?

...They start to starve and die and fight over those resources which are commercially viable. There are less of those so more people die fighting for them. If they don't fight, they starve and now there are less things to fight over.

Thanks decadent westerners; you've done it again!

Pretty fail.
Almost all electronics use these minerals, evens the ones who "don't use conflict minerals" do. The conflict minerals get mixed in with the legit minerals when they are smelted in africa. The solution of not buying these products will only further financially devostate africa.
Linux is not a solution and suggesting that it is is probably one of the dumbest things i have heard. Say i buy a diamond ring with a conflict diamond in it, now lets say i destroy the ring part of it and use a string instead and wear a conflict diamond around my finger with a string. That is what using linux is. When you buy a computer (or build one) it has lets just say (and this is a made up number) 5 grams of conflict minerals. Now you either install linux or take windows/osx off of it and put linux on it. Your computer still has 5 grams of conflict minerals... And lets face it many "linux" users secretly use windows when nobody is looking. Because by the time linux supports all of the hardware you have in your computer it is obsolete and its off to buy some more conflict minerals. The biggest advance linux has made so far has been wine, which is just a really crappy way of running microsoft crap on your linux machine, so like the mac crowd linux users will jump through hoops to get their computers to run windows applications but ask any of them "if linux is so much better why go through all the trouble of putting windows stuff on it?". It is the same as boasting about how much better your honda is than your friends ford after you removed the honda engine and put a ford one in. The only thing i know of that linux is good for is that is pretty much the best form of birth control around and people who use it have an ability to grow linux beards almost overnight.

[edit on 28-6-2010 by zaiger]

in the end something like this is absolutely worthless. why?

you can't control it!

One person can't right the wrongs in the world, several thousand can't, etc. Everytime something like this is posted, you can't do anything about it.

The way I see it, the only way you can do anything about it is to entirely shut your life down. abandon your house, car, material goods, strip naked and go live in the woods hunting animals with rocks (err, but that's harmful!) so maybe you just eat leaves, but wait those are living things also!

all people can do is control their small sphere of influence. volunteer at a library. assist the elderly. work for a non corrupt animal rescue somewhere..... pick trash off the side of the road.

When you think about it, *everything* you touch/consume is going to be the product of someones misery. from the worker who made it to the slave worker who sold it to you, stocked it on the shelf for you etc etc....

the only difference that sets either worker apart is probably language.... all are going to worry about how to make bills, provide for a family, etc

I do the best I can to put dollars elsewhere. I hate walmart with a passion, and I rarely if at all shop there anymore. Their death can't come fast enough for me. The workers are already unemployed in the job (having to go on public assistance WHILE working there is not a job at all!) so if they get fired tommorrow they aren't really missing anything....

People just have to learn you can't control every little thing on the planet...

Hell, if you think about it, you could be causing "stress/hurt/etc" to your neighbor next door. You purchase a new car or a new lawn decoration, and maybe they feel pain because they can't afford to decorate the house or own a new car... See where I am going here?

It's the small legacy you leave that counts, not what you consumed all through your life! did you touch your familys life? maybe a animals? assisted the elderly? and so forth....

reply to post by jokei


how is linux an ethical 3rd way when it uses the same hardware with the exact same circuits that use conflict metals?