Demons 101

reply to post by Blue Shift


As respectfully as I can, being a Christian myself, I must say that you are completely off base with your comments in that post.

Jesus himself says at one point after banishing a demon that He is not possessed himself or working with Satan because he would be working against his own kingdom by banishing demons if that were the case. He was able to raise Lazarus because he is the Son of God and he was raised by God from the grave.

When jesus recruited his disciples, many of them took what they had and left. it is likely that many of them sold all they had and took the funds with them as they followed Jesus. If you sell everything you've got, the money will probably support you for quite a while. Jesus also had a number of wealthy women traveling with the disciples that used their income to support Jesus and his followers. That is recorded in Luke 8:1-3.

"1After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means."

I take great offense at your claims because they are both false and insulting to my Lord. I feel that you did not mean any offense with your post, however, and just wanted you to be aware that most Christians will not take kindly to you accusing their savior of being in league with the very one we consider our enemy and even being a master over such wicked practices that are condemned throughout the Bible in both the Old and New Testament.

reply to post by mf_luder


I'm sorry if this has already been asked but I just found the thread and didnt feel like reading through all 12 pages...

Have you found any reason why the work of priests and such are especially effective at exorcising demons? To me, that points to the power of God working against these forces that I would consider to likely be those that rebelled from God in the beginning. This means that they may not be as evil as many would think, but they have at the least rebelled against the ultimate authority of God and cannot be trusted, even if they seem to be kind.

Anyway, I was just curious why priests seem to be able to do this sort of work. I am honestly curious how an agnostic views that situation. I don't mean the question to be insulting or demeaning in any way.

Off topic: My father served in the Army for 25 years. Thank you for serving. I trust that you did what is good and honorable and weren't caught up in any of the foul play that I read so much about these days.

Love the profile pic. I had a custom lightsaber made at Randomsabers.com. It's called Retribution but I think the only place you will find it is on the forums. They've got some pretty awesome stuff.

All I can say is WOW!! Thats some pretty intense stuff.

If you have no sources to back any of this up then how can you ask for no one to ridicule or flame you? Just a question. It seems like very powerful self-damnation. You said you would utterly ignore any attempts at flaming or ridicule or otherwise de-bunking. How can one 'utterly ignore' something if one acknowledges it in the first place. Id say the deed is done. Response from the OP is not needed for a propper de-bunking or de-railing..is it?

Ok, now for my attempt at inteligent debate.

This seems an extremely difficult subject to debate because it is based in a doctrine. A doctrine which depends on faith to operate. So...that makes it a little easier. If one has the faith to believe that some guy died on a cross and floated up into the sky then I dont suppose itsnot too far a stretch to believe in 'demons'.

Please provide credible sources to prove at least some of this. (other than a manual on how to control a population) Until you do this , scientifically 'demons' dont exist. It is just another way for a person to escape responsibility from thier enviornment for a while.


I suppose my reason for even contributing to this thread is because as far back as I can remember Ive encountered people that honestly believed all of this and more. Some believed they coud cause changes in the weather by incantations, others believed in out of body combat, others thought they could literally turn into werewolves. I mean these people seem to allways pop up. And of course being the tolerant fellow that I am, usually I would seek to indulge these individuals so to possibly gain insight or maybe even a friend. But there comes a point when things can easily spiral out of control and often have. Thats when you flip the 'switch' and walk away, or at least I do. My tolerance has brought me to some truly interesting situations. In the end though...if someone is given enough rope..
Please dont get me wrong, meditation is a wonderful tool, but even that is only in the mind of the practitioner.

What some call a 'demon', I call a self indulgent attempt to escape reality.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by mf_luder

 

I'm sorry if this has already been asked but I just found the thread and didnt feel like reading through all 12 pages...

Have you found any reason why the work of priests and such are especially effective at exorcising demons? To me, that points to the power of God working against these forces that I would consider to likely be those that rebelled from God in the beginning. This means that they may not be as evil as many would think, but they have at the least rebelled against the ultimate authority of God and cannot be trusted, even if they seem to be kind.

Anyway, I was just curious why priests seem to be able to do this sort of work. I am honestly curious how an agnostic views that situation. I don't mean the question to be insulting or demeaning in any way.

Off topic: My father served in the Army for 25 years. Thank you for serving. I trust that you did what is good and honorable and weren't caught up in any of the foul play that I read so much about these days.

Love the profile pic. I had a custom lightsaber made at Randomsabers.com. It's called Retribution but I think the only place you will find it is on the forums. They've got some pretty awesome stuff.

The reason the priests are able to banish demons and the reason anyone else who has the tools to do so stems more so from a focused powerful intent. Christians focus the power of their belief in God and Christianity into the banishment. That can go a long way toward fueling the intent piece. For the rest of us, we use the same verses a normal exorcist may work. I don't know if it has anything to do with the demons fearing God or anything like that, but they sure don't like that bible for some reason.

Awesome man! I bought the master replicas Ep. III Obi-Wan and sent it to ultrasabers to get the turquoise led/detachable blade put in. I still have that thing around the house somewhere...

Originally posted by mf_luder
Can I control a Demon through force of will/religious faith/cookies?

The answer to all of the above is a resounding NO There are so many people who believe in certain religions who will swear up and down that you can command a demon to go away in the name of a prophet or lord and the demon will.

Little bit of criticism here.
Technically demon is a being in certain plane of existece and by that it doesn't differ much from human existence.

Control means to own power over someone. Every being in standard situation is able to control someone who is less powerful or developed.

But somewhat your statement is true, because when people summon demon, they usually try to summon someone more powerful then themselves. It is logical, because lesser beings are unable to give what summoner wants, because they already have that power.
But it doesn't mean they are unable to control them. It kinda reminds me some religious dogmas, but reality is, when you have experience and when you know what you are doing, it is possible to control those beings.

2) To rid: There are several full exorcism verses out there in the original latin that you can use to banish - I say again BANISH a demon. For clarification - BANISH does not mean KILL. Since the entity is in a form of energy, you can't destroy it, but you can send it back. A medium version verse follows:

I have seen lots of people thinking that way and it reminds me those old movies.
It is mostly useless, because when someone is destroying demons saying latin sentences, it means they usually have lack of skill operating in these planes on existence, where contact with demons appear.

I don't say it doesn't work, but is more like blind fighting.

And those verses are way too overestimated.
Sure, you look cool saying these things but, usually person with skill takes demons out simply by closing eyes and sitting for a while. Or maybe even cooking breakfast

Let me explain...
Trick is, usual techniques for starting to work in esoteric fields, is to start altering your nerve system a bit. Brain is like muscle, when you train certain parts, nerves create more connections. Certain psychological abilities grow etc...
Technically person who works in esoteric fields have a bit altered nerve system. More '___' produced by pineal gland to generate "hallucinations", bit altered cognitive abilites etc...

And thus, esotericist is easily able to contact other planes of existence. Create changes there and probably destroy demons.

Another dogma about exorcism is banishing. I don't know even single good exorcist who banishes. In reality, much more effective way killing.

Why? Because when demon has created a contact with human, it attaches itself to different parts of human soul. I don't want to go into metaphysics here, but soul is extremely complicated structure.
And when you send them away, those attachments work like transmitters between human and demon. So human subconscious mind gets still altered.

And manually deattaching foreign aspects from this, is lots of work. Plus - you need to own extremly good skill in seeing different realities.
And thats why killing is useful, because then it is possible to dissolve demonic aspects that were dug into human soul structure.

Sorry about my spelling mistakes, english is not my native.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Raimonds]

[edit on 10-6-2010 by Raimonds]

You did say that you were willing to answer questions .. I have a question. There is an experience which has been bugging me for 34 years because I can't explain or understand it. Maybe, instead of ridiculing me or suggesting medication, you may be able to shed some light on the incident. I will try to present the bare facts without most of my assumptions, guesses, subjective emotional impact, etc.

After Navy boot camp I attended an "A" school in San Diego, CA. Somehow during those weeks I acquired a steady boyfriend who was a few years older than I and renting an apartment off base. Due to the callousness, selfishness, and inconsistency of youth, I decided to break it off with him and see some other guys, and went to his apartment to inform him of my decision and collect a few things I had left there.

After trying and failing to talk me out of it, he reacted with unexpected fury, shouting and cursing at me. I expected him to hit me and began backing away from him down the hallway towards the front door. He then began moving his hands in the air as though drawing invisible patterns and chanting words I couldn't understand.

The next thing I knew, there was a "thing" flying down the hallway towards me. This thing was dark colored and difficult to see in a way that's hard to explain. It was gray or greenish gray, sort of, but its color was not really constant. It also seemed to blur or change all the time and was very hard to look at. As it got closer, my impression was of lots of eyes (like dozens, not 3 or 4), lots of sharp teeth, and claws.

I was frozen with terror and couldn't react, let alone think. My life didn't flash before my eyes, but I was sure that I was about to die when this thing reached me.

The next thing that happened might have been amusing if I hadn't been so terrified. Inches from my face it appeared to hit an invisible barrier and slide down it. It made a noise that I can best describe as an angry shriek, and then began scratching at the barrier while moving around me in a circle as though looking for an opening. It felt like I was standing under a clear glass bell while this thing tried to get in at me. After going around and around and up and down several times, it turned away from me and went flying back down the hallway towards my ex-boyfriend. I instantly turned and ran for the front door, got it open, went out, slammed it behind me, and didn't stop running until I was at the bus stop with other people around me.

I never heard from him again and I never tried to go back and get my things.

At the time I was not a member of any religious denomination nor did I subscribe to any particular belief system; I could best have been described as someone who didn't know what to believe and was searching for answers.

Not being able to get a good handle on what the "thing" was doesn't bother me nearly as much as trying to figure out what protected me. I didn't pray, I didn't ask for help, I did nothing .. I was terrified and presumed myself to be helpless and at the mercy of this thing until it hit that "barrier."

reply to post by hhott


Would you mind contacting me through U2U to discuss this further? I have some serious questions and some personal insight into your "barrier" I'd like to share, but not in the open.

Very interesting story indeed!

Good post OP. P.S. Go ARMY!

Just got a post removed for decorum? The closest I got to an insult was saying
that I doubt the credentials of the OP where he said he has a 144 intelligence when he cannot see past the fallacies & contradictory statements he keeps putting on the boards. And he has still shown us no proof of anything he says. No proof of 10 years of documentation. Zip. Nada.

Sure ATS requires an audience to pay its bills, but to sacrifice integrity and truth & just outright pandering to people? Its just not right.

IMO, it seems as if the Paranormal subforums are not as vetted as the other subforums. At least the other threads in the other forums require more rigorous thinking and vetting. Why the difference here?

This whole thread of the OP should have been in either the Gray Area, Skunkworks or Hoax long ago.

Just a fair warning to people, read the whole thread carefully and note all the inconsistencies of the OP & especially the lack of any proof or credentials. Do your own research.

Here's an example:

Originally posted by mf_luder
Please keep in mind that throughout this thread I have made it very clear I do not advocate the summoning of anything, let alone a demon. There are far too many variable involved and I've see too many situations where people tried and failed the bad way.

And yet in another thread in this forum, he goes on to give instructions on how to summon a Succubi? www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wonder how many flags and points I could get if I posted some random fantasy without having to prove it.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by postmeme]

I love this thread. Thank you for sharing your experience and posting this. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of the comments. Demons have been around longer than Christianity.

Here's a recent article about a 2008 case of demonic possession.

It's intriguing, to say the least.

www.unexplainable.net...

reply to post by mf_luder


Hello mf_luder,

Sorry if this has already been asked but you mentioned in your initial post:

something happened which caused an 'awakening' in myself and several of my closest friends

Can you please kindly elaborate as to what exactly happened, or what were the circumstances that caused this "awakening". I do not doubt you at all, I am just very intrigued by this and would like to learn more from your experience.


jb

Since you are into Demonology I thought I would ask the question. Do you know what my avatar is supposed to be?

Just wondering.

But if I explained how I got that photograph I'd probably have to kill you. You know eh?

BTW rotate it and see if you can see the 4 pictures. Too bad I cant show the entire picture.


MOMMEEEEE! AHHHHHHH! There's a monster under my bed and I got his photograph! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!






[edit on 11-6-2010 by ntech]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by mf_luder

 

This post was spurred because myself and others around the world are starting to see a rise in negative activity and more and more demons Walk to the Earth.

Because we are in the biblical end times.

Well, one way is to get a priest - which usually works.

They are both latin scripture from the bible

Well Demons are not afraid of their fancy robes now are they?

Now why do you think it is ONLY the WORD OF GOD that will make them run to the hills?

How can you do all this research and leave out the most obvious facts?

Demons only fear GOD, Good Watchers and his Arch Angels. What gives them a hell of a Migraine? The WORD OF GOD JESUS-YAHWEH.

A psalm of Asaph.
1 God (elohim) stands in the divine council (literally, council of El);
among the gods (elohim) He pronounces judgment.
2 How long will you (plural) judge unjustly,
showing favor to the wicked? Selah.
3 Judge the wretched and the orphan,
vindicate the lowly and the poor,
4rescue the wretched and the needy;
save them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They neither know nor understand,
they go about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth totter.
6 I said, “you (plural) gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (beney Elyon), all of you (plural);
7but you (plural) shall die as men do,8 Arise (the command is singular), O God (elohim),
judge (the command is singular) the earth,
for you (singular) shall inherit all the nations.

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

Did you really Larry King a Demon? Be aware that they will tell you what ever YOU want to hear but the truth, they can read your mind and will deny Satan unless you already have it by the gonads per say with the WORD OF GOD.

Your falling for their parlor tricks, don't be fooled. I would recommend you read the Books Of Enoch and everything Michael S. Heiser, PhD writes to have an absolute rock solid interpretation of the Bible and Torah as he is the best expert in the field. Its all in Enoch for you, A world that will blow your mind if you really think about it. No they are not aliens, they are who they say they are.

This would mainly have to do with the Nephilim, the dead of whom are demons, their fallen angel fathers, and the imprisonment of those fallen angels in the Abyss. The applicable verses are:

2 Pet 2:4 “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment”

Jude 1:6 “And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day.”

www.paradoxbrown.com...

www.sitchiniswrong.com...

Why do you say "Sitchin was wrong"? Are you saying this, or is there something in the texts of his that youre referring to in reply?
Do you not agree if it wasnt for Sitchin we wouldnt even know about the Anunnaki, even tho I know Sumerian scolars since say hes not accurate in some things.

...b.

reply to post by mf_luder


How do you get the salt barrier to work?

I tried using the salt barrier sometime ago, the next day I find a line of liquid where I placed the salt, is it still effective in liquid form?

I found that a lot of factors can affect the salt barrier method from the moisture, heat and wind in a climate, to pest, pets,people and house cleaning.

Do you need to dig down and bury the line of salt? How often do you need to check to make sure that the line of salt is still there and not disrupted?

It doesn't seem like practical barrier to use.

OP,

I appreciate the effort that you have taken to share some of the knowledge you have gained, but I would also like to know a little more about your experiences. While it is easily understandable that you wouldn't want to share contact information or anything else which could identify people which you have helped, you are giving advice to members here who may be experiencing supernatural or psychological trauma. If you truly have an extensive background in this field, you realize how dangerous it is for people to follow misinformed advice. Unless I've missed it, you have made multiple claims of a body of work, but you have yet to provide any actual details of any of that work.

Understand that I'm not attempting to attack you, but the fact that you are now soliciting advice to members and are passing yourself off as some type of expert (hence the collegiate course-looking thread title) opens you up to a critical analysis of your claims. I would recommend to everyone, considering the seriousness of the topic here, to await some type of real proof as to the veracity of any poster who insists they can help you get rid of a demonic entity. You risk a variety of pratfalls, including a misdiagnosis of a mental disorder or the encouragement of additional torture and violence by the demon/malevolent entity.

I believe I read that you have mentioned you will post some of the research and source materials you are basing your information on, and I appreciate that. As a skeptic (especially of people), however, I find it extremely important that you provide all of us here some proof of your expertise...especially since you've crossed the line between sharing information you've found to reaching out to people with an implication that you can solve their problems. At that point, you've reached a much higher level of scrutiny. If you cannot provide that information because of privacy concerns or any other reason that is at your discretion, but at that point you must stop reaching out to people. Otherwise, you're only providing false hope to some of those that need the real kind the most.

Originally posted by Seanbomber
Good post OP. P.S. Go ARMY!

Re: about having a post removed - life isnt always fair. ...b.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by butlincat2]

MF...does organite not work? With its supposed wonderful attributes one would have thought to repel and protect from demons it would be a snip. In fact i have seen dialogue stating it keeps away dark forces, and when I suggested that Jesus Christ was the only one to save anybody from this supposed [potential] evil i was sternly rebuked and told to stfu. Charming.

...namaste...b.

mf_luder - id like to ask you a couple of serious questions, about the afterlife + related, as, due to a medical condition, i will be leaving this void soon. I cannot U2U as i havent done enough posts, such is the ...well, ill refrain or ill be deleted again. My email is [email protected] , I hardly use this a/c, so its safe. [i get enough mail from lunatics already, so if i get a few more it will be no problem].
I have a statement from Dr. Mitchell Gibson in reply to a question i asked him privatly, and i would be interested in your opinion.You may know Gibson has an interview on Concious Media site, where he talks about the afterlife in places. I can give u the link if neccassary.

If ur not interested - thats cool. Tks in advance...namaste...b.

[edit on 11-6-2010 by butlincat2]

Well, let me start this off by saing "hello". Im freshly new to signing up to this forum, but i have been reading through this site for years.

First of all, i couldn' t help but notice this thread. due to the fact the topic deeply interests me for various reasons. im not religious by any means. due to this topic.

as an introduction to myself, im a 31/m. and as a child, i've had a major issue or problem with this "demon" topic. I was about 8 yrs old. and came down with scarlet fever, chicken pox and pneumonia at once. wonderful combo, let me tell ya. lol but, i was literally on my death bed barely able to breath running a 104-105 fever. I was resting on the couch one eve watching rambo on tv late at night. and i starting having this cold chill overcome me, figuring it was my fever i tryed to get up to get my next dose of medicine. but, couldn't move to no avail. pretty much paralysed but could see around me normally. of course i panicked, and tryed to call out to my parents, but that didnt work too well either. and out of the corner of my eye i noticed somethig odd. and immediatly had this most disturbing feeling that still to this day gives me chills. as i fixed my glance towards this object. i realised it was real, and it was looking at me. it was about 7 feet tall, charcoalish in color, with crimson eyes that had this deep glow. something that looked sort of like wings behind it. and it seemed to cover it like a trench-coat. it was leaned up aginst the wall casually just looking. not one sound nor word was spoken. and i passed out moments later. but, i do believe it was interested in me. that was the feeling i got. as if there was something about me that took its interest. and from what i felt, it was not a lower being by any means of the imagination. nor was it a figment of my imagination or due to a hallucination from a fever. it was real as the keyboard im typing on now.

later on through my life, i noticed similar occurrences, like a type of gremlin sneaking around my bed as i was trying to sleep. instances where i would carve symbols in my hands at school that landed me in the nurses office. and people sensing that an entity was always around me. like a "guardian angel". most of these people were fairly keen in the "spiritual" sense. only two actually seen it. my wife, and my ex. and from what they describe. it is not pretty. but scary as hell its self.

with my wife, it threatened her through a mirror. but, oddly enough it also warned her later on of a miscarriage later on that would happen, which it did. later through time we moved, and lived with her parents for a while, and never had an issue since, due to the fact the house was protected. due to it previously housing a family that originally perished in a fire. and the next owners had it exercised due to ghosts. (they were pretty religious)

as for my take on "demons" and demonology and other entities beyond our comprehension. yes, i do believe they exist. but not how nor why we think. The religions we now observe misconstrue most of everything. and 90% of anything you can currently find will not truthfully tell you much when it comes to accurate knowledge. YES, they can appear in the physical world. Yes, they can be seen. as for there intentions? it can vary. can they be requested? yep, just like making a phone call, just that simple. it just takes a certain mindset. for me, its a connection with the Moon. can it do things by request? yes. can it harm you? YES. can it affect people around you? oh yes. take it this way, if its there, its open season. and anything goes. its alot like a person. just much more wiser. kinda like a fine wine.

ill bookmark this page for further reading. and thank you for posting. it was a good read.

reply to post by mf_luder


I have a few questions ... This whole summoning thing sounds like knowing a few codes without knowing the actual programing language ... Does it work if I translate it in English ? Actually , shouldn't it work better that way , given that I would have understanding of what I'm saying , thus making my intent clearer /What are the general principles by witch one may summon/banish . This is demon summoning we're talking about , but has anyone attempted to deconstruct the rituals using the scientific method , find out what works and why ?