Demons 101

I feel that it's safe to assume that a large part of what you do is distinguishing between psychological issues and issues of truly other worldly circumstance?

If so, and since this thread has become an almost 'how to solve my demon issues 101' - I can't help but throw this out there and hope somebody can throw me a line.

Try to stay with me - as my jargon and deduction are things that I came up with over years of trying to understand something that I've never even started to understand - so perhaps I mislabeled or misunderstood things and used a jargon of 'best fit' that was completely misguided or inappropriate.

I used to create. I used to write music, stories, poetry - I used to draw and paint. I was an artist with an unknown muse and I was known for the quality of my work even from a young age - but this art came at a cost. On any given day (morning, day, or night) I would sit to write - say a poem as an example. Pens never worked for me, I always felt a disconnect between the pen and the paper - I switched to nibs and ink wells because then not only was the ink on the paper but my thoughts were actually dug into the page. It helped to keep me anchored, so to speak.

The first couple lines were nothing, scribbles to get the mind flowing. By the forth or fifth line, I would start to hear and feel them. By the bottom of the page, they were unbearably tormenting. I called them my demons. I never heard a word they said; but they said a lot and it was all I could hear. I never felt or saw them - but they were all I could feel or see.

It's hard to explain.

My vision would tunnel, the point of my nib and the engraving of my thoughts the only thing I could see. It was as though my demons were lashing out at me from some unseen barrier and the only thing that could keep them at bay was if I kept writing; until the end of the page when my writing was scratching through the paper; wild and frantic. I would flip the page and keep going. People who happened upon me in that state were unfortunately victims of my own lashing out, yelling, saying things I wouldn't hardly remember saying.

I figured I was crazy. It was the only thing that made sense to me. To a few people I'd confide in and try to explain my demons. They never understood. One person offered up 'insecurity'. I've been insecure, I still am. Insecurity doesn't lash out violently at you from the shadows of your mind and fill your mind with darkness and emptiness. Empty in the sense that nothing is or can ever be good; empty in the sense that there is a deep dark pit in your soul that can never be filled. The kind of emptiness you feel.

I hated my demons; they scared me to the bone. never the less, I realized that without them I wouldn't and couldn't create.

About 4 years ago, they went away. The demons were gone. I would sit down to create, and I would hear nothing. They would not come no matter my mental state (sad, happy, drunk... whatever). I've written a couple songs, a couple poems in that time - maybe painted a few pictures - I've never finished any of them, mind you. They are all lacking, simple, and empty. I cannot create without them, even though they were a plague in their own right.

So if you have any insight... am I (or was I) crazy? If not, what were they? Furthermore, and I realize this is a long shot, any insight into how I can get them back?

edit to add a note that may be important: they were only ever present when I was in the midst of creation. They would never come if I wasn't alone and in the process of creating something new. They wouldn't come when I was on the deck having a beer with friends; driving to work; walking down the street... only when I was alone and creating something.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by memoir]

reply to post by Logarock


I never argued about who is schizophrenic and who isn't, and I CERTAINLY won't get into a conversation about religion (total agnostic/apathetic, not atheistic or anything though). I'm just a scientist, and even if modern science doesn't always work, the scientific method DOES. There's always some control and/or statistical analysis comparing the results to a null hypothesis. I will believe anything, no matter how absurd, if it's wrapped up in a nice scientific conclusion... unless my own investigations contradict it, of course. (Note investigations and experiences are not equivalent: a good investigation gets at the truth, but experiences and perception can be lies.)

Originally posted by FearNoEvil
reply to post by Logarock

 

Yes, I see your point.

I believe this was Paul's last resort to prevent corruption in the church.

I don't think Paul prayed TO satan or a messenger of satan. I think he spoke or prophesied that Gods protection was to be removed so that the destruction of the flesh would cause repentance.

I dont think Paul prayed to satan either in fact I said he prayed to God. If he didnt pray in the two cases but sort of had the authority to remove protection well fine.. then we should realize that there are some in the church with that authority and we should show them respect even if they are being whiped by God for reasons.

Even when David was on the run from his son some came out to give him food and help as they could. Remember the plight of Pharaoh when dealing with Abraham....and he didnt look like much up against Pharaoh but a smelly vagabond.....take head....

reply to post by memoir


Sounds like your everyday creative genius to me. Nigh-pathological perfectionism seems to manifest like you explained often.

And no, I don't do any psychology or anything. I do medical imaging research.

(LordBasket or w/e your screen name is... you got me on the Demons 101 thing. Good call. )

But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.-Matt12.28

Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.-1John2.22

For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead."-Acts17.31

no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.-1Cor12.3

the fruit of lips that confess his name.-Heb13.15

We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.-1John4.6

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by pondrthis

 

who is then the troll, I wonder?

My vote is for the person advocating psychiatric evaulations in a thread labeled "Demons 101."

The day someone starts a thread titled "Pharmacology 101" and you see me telling people that they need to go to the local witchdoctor, then you can accuse me of trolling.

I think that many doctors and interns just don't know any better. It is what they have been taught by other doctors. They think these pills will help, I had a really good doctor once who put my on anti depressents after a bad break up, and I started feeling zapping like shocks in my brain. He weaned me off them. I don't drink, but I had a beer with a friend after this brain zapping experience, and it did more for me than the pills. Gave me a different perspective, instead of numbing the brain like the pills did the first day. That doctor even told me that they don't know yet how the pills work, but for some people they are really bad. I will never take a pill for the brain again even if I do see something that freaks me out. Too dangerous.

Originally posted by pondrthis
reply to post by Logarock

 

I will believe anything, no matter how absurd, if it's wrapped up in a nice scientific conclusion... unless my own investigations contradict it, of course. (Note investigations and experiences are not equivalent: a good investigation gets at the truth, but experiences and perception can be lies.)

I discern that you wouldnt believe some things no matter how much investigation you did. Besides investigation means here a revelation of the truth to your satisfaction. And the truth is...on this topic...seeing and experience are all you are really ever going to have....at least eyes to see. Keep waiting for something that will fit into a scientific box and you may be waiting a long time.

reply to post by snowspirit


Anti-depressants are the nasty ones. I find it quite funny that SSRI's have the side effect of suicidality. Like... huh? I thought this was supposed to HELP depression?

Luckily, I'm not in need of those.

But if I started seeing #, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd be on anti-psychotics in no time. There's no way I'd put up with strange visions. Of course, the people it happens to are used to it, and when you compound the fact that many schizophrenics are also paranoid, it makes for a patient that's a pain in the ass, I imagine.

I dunno, I just don't understand this hatred of pharmaceuticals people have. Or wait, that's probably just because I'm a bottom-feeder from Big Pharma, making me the proverbial "man". In that case, please disregard all my statements as disinformation sent from the pharmaceutical and medical device companies targeted at keeping you in a state of sheep-like contentedness.


[edit on 10-6-2010 by pondrthis]

Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by mf_luder
reply to post by badfish86

 

I have not used any of them but I have to agree with you - we can summon demons, why not angels?

You cant summon an angel but have to ask thier Boss for any sort of intervention they may provide. That is when they dont show up anyway with orders or standing orders or to help in some way....but always with Boss knowing about it. They seem to only come as messengers when one has been talking to thier Boss or He has something He wants to tell you.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by Logarock]

all I can say is I feel you are wrong. and what you wrote goes exactly upon what i was saying.

for you should help yourself and protect yourself before looking upon someone else to protect you or give you "powers" or whatever the reason your calling upon something.
If you can not protect yourself why should anyone/anything protect you.
The only form of anything that will help you would be the devil for he prays upon the innocent and weak...That is in my eye's.
He gives then he takes, he makes you feel love when it's really only lust.
For it's in the deception that you fall pray, especially when the lies become truth's and the truth's become lies.
you have been deceived for god has already helped you by giving you this body.
everything else is your choice.
accomplish on your own or within "reality".
If you beg for help and do not help your self.
you will get what you beg for but you'll be damned in hell for taking what you do not deserve.

people wonder why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer,
I'm going to share a strong feeling of mine.

the rich look at them selfs as gods, they do what they want how they want when they want, and god loves them for that for they are making the most out of their time on earth, the poor get poorer for they expect and don't understand that they are a god, so in the eye's of god they are only a peasant worthless for they can not see. they are treated the way they treat them selfs. and that's why 99% of the human race are peasants and 1% are gods, because the gods (1%) do as they please (use free will) and god loves them for using what he gave.
in return for protecting them selfs they are protected by god.
people have been forced to feel they are not worthy forced to believe what is not believable only for the rich to stay in control because if every human understood they were all gods. the rich would become equal and the peasants would become gods.

before cutting me up for my thoughts.
Think about it.
and let me explain why you do not know you are a god.

It's like this You (the people) are on a need to know basis.....
because you do not "know"...
so it means you then do not need to "know"...
when you finally "know" the understanding is so great that you are now in the "Know"....
you don't need to 'know" for now you "know".....

and so because you never need to "know"...
once you "know", the need to "know" disappears.....
so then only people that need to "know" are the people that don't understand and because they don't understand they can't understand and do not need to know....
and the people that understand don't need to "know"...
for they already "know" ....

beliefs are to powerful to share so their is information people do not deserve for they could not wrap their brain around it. hence why too much information is bad information. because in the end nobody needs to know anything at all, you will just know because you will know you are a god.

so the need to "know" is never talked about
that is why the government and everyone else use's the "need to know basis"
for if you do not know. that is proof enough that you do not need to know

confused yet :

Basically what i'm saying is stand up be strong and use the body you were given for you are a god.

reply to post by badfish86


It's precisely through squandering time and money on drugs and alcohol that makes the very poor what they are, at least in the US. And the rich don't just live a life of hedonism and pleasure, they work hard. Well, on the east coast at least, west coast money seems to be pretty decadent.

Basically I feel like your comment about seeing the inner God plays down the effects of hard work and dedication that we all know provide results. That's not to say anything about whether or not we all are gods, but it's certainly not why the rich get richer and the poor poorer.

reply to post by pondrthis

even if modern science doesn't always work, the scientific method DOES

In principal, maybe. But there may be phenomenon which are impractical for us to measure. For example, I would guess that any "scientific" study of love is going to be very lacking. Sure, you can measure changes in breathing and heart rate, but do these tests convey any useful information about the experience of love? How do you set up a control group in your experiment? Do you simply ask for experimental volunteers who claim they're in love and control volunteers who claim they're not? Wouldn't this be relying on a completely subjective perception?

If a person is having an experience which those around them do not share, how is saying "Oh, they're psychotic" any different than saying "Oh, they're possessed," or saying "Oh, they're juggabooga." Each is nothing but a label to describe an experience that isn't shared.

You can only measure the value of these answers by the quality of the treatment that they prescribe. If two patients claim to hear voices, and one goes to a psychiatrist to gives them drugs, and the other goes to a shaman who chants and dances in circles around them...if both patients exhibit similar recovery rates, there's no meaningful basis by which to evaluate one diagnosis as superior to the other.

experiences and perception can be lies.

They can be. But subjective, personal experience may also sometimes be all we have to work with. Read this thread. I believe you will find it to be extremely relevant.

I just don't understand this hatred of pharmaceuticals people have.

Two reasons.

First, it's been my experience that pharmeceuticals don't fix problems. They provide temporary relief of symptoms. For example, if there's a hole in my sink and I place my hand on it, water no longer leaks out the bottom. But the problem hasn't been fixed, and as soon as I leave (as soon as I stop taking chemicals) the symptoms return. On the other hand...if I plug the hole with plaster, the problem is fixed. I don't need to keep applying plaster. Drugs don't solve problems. They hide symptoms.

Second, they tend to have a lot of nasty, and sometimes unpredictable side effects. If I hold my hand on the bottom of that wet sink for long enough, eventually the flesh may begin to mold and rot. And personally, I don't know enough about them to be willing to trust a shaman (read: doctor) to make decisions for me whether those side effects are worthwhile to have a temporary solution.

you got me on the Demons 101 thing. Good call.

Thank you.



[edit on 10-6-2010 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by pondrthis
reply to post by snowspirit

 

Anti-depressants are the nasty ones. I find it quite funny that SSRI's have the side effect of suicidality. Like... huh? I thought this was supposed to HELP depression?

Luckily, I'm not in need of those.

But if I started seeing #, you can bet your bottom dollar I'd be on anti-psychotics in no time. There's no way I'd put up with strange visions. Of course, the people it happens to are used to it, and when you compound the fact that many schizophrenics are also paranoid, it makes for a patient that's a pain in the ass, I imagine.

I dunno, I just don't understand this hatred of pharmaceuticals people have. Or wait, that's probably just because I'm a bottom-feeder from Big Pharma, making me the proverbial "man". In that case, please disregard all my statements as disinformation sent from the pharmaceutical and medical device companies targeted at keeping you in a state of sheep-like contentedness.


[edit on 10-6-2010 by pondrthis]

I think the mistrust of the pills is more from people not knowing how they will react to them. Everyone's brain is wired somewhat different, I never even hallucinated as a teen for the short time that I got into the mind altering substances. Can't even understand how a flashback could happen. It never happened to me. Now that I am older and would never do those things again, I would have a hard time trusting anything that would alter my senses. Although if I did start actually seeing things while awake, I would probably make sure it wasn't a tumor or anything physical right away. Thankfully anything strange that I see is gone when I wake up

reply to post by LordBucket


Though I tend to favor quantitative evidence, qualitative evidence can still draw conclusions if it provides sufficient data to demonstrate that the evidence cannot be explained through other conclusions.

Studies about love can be made qualitatively. Here the gold standard is the general definition of love. Seeing as love, like mathematics or color, is a contrived, abstract concept, it's a difficult thing to study.

However, we're talking about existence or non-existence of something. Simple deduction suggests that the people who witness things others cannot are somehow different from the others. Whether or not this difference shows them the truth or illusions is a wild guess. So if you want to be psychiatry-haters, then fine, you're right, I have no proof that shrinks aren't just calling some special power "delusions". But by the same token, you have no proof that what you're seeing exists at all. It's a craps-shoot, really, and seeing as how MY reality matches up with the majority's, I'm sure you can understand how I can draw the conclusions I do. You'll agree it's the logical conclusion to draw if you were in my shoes.

EDIT: And the fact that psychiatric drugs only hide symptoms is obvious. They aren't antibiotics that will kill some bad things in you. They treat an insufficiency of your system. Those things don't just remedy themselves, they have to be treated chronically. I know it seems strange to people who haven't studied medicine, but it's true for most all drugs, not just psychiatric ones. Basically anything medicine you take for something besides infection will be that way.

[edit on 10-6-2010 by pondrthis]

reply to post by snowspirit


My problem with *most* medications is they treat the symptom, not the problem - yet they're given out as if they're the end all to the problem -- just take 3 of these a day for the rest of your life and you'll be ok.

Sure... but these pills have only been in production for 3 years - what side affects might occur 20 years down the line or what happens if I forget my bottle?

For the record, I don't nor ever have been on any kind of medication... I don't even take headache medicine. I'm not saying some medications are not helpful, they absolutely are - I just feel they are over used.

reply to post by memoir


Ironically most doctors find it to be the other way around! They don't like prescribing antibiotics, which are the only drugs to actually treat the "problem", because it contributes to the formation of multi-resistant bacterial strains.

Anyway, as much as I love talking about pharmaceuticals, I've derailed the thread. I'm officially bowing out now (I need to be working anyway). Please reorganize the discussion to demonology, as it originally was supposed to be. Peace out y'all.

reply to post by pondrthis

we're talking about existence or non-existence of something.

Yes, but the existence that we're talking about is the existence of an experience. And you cannot tell me that I don't have an experience. You can tell me that you don't have an experience. But that doesn't change my experience.

Saying that an experience is "a demon" or "a psychotic episode" is not what we're discussing the existence or non-existence of. These are simply arbitrary guesses as to the nature or cause of that experience. But as the one having an experience, I think I'm in a better position to judge an experience than those of you not having an experience.

you have no proof that what you're seeing exists at all.

Just as you have no proof that it doesn't. But the difference here is that it's not particularly important to me whether you believe it. If you don't perceive these things, if you don't have to deal with them...that's fine. That's not a problem for me. I can accept that maybe you don't experience them, and that can be the end of the story. I feel no need to tell you get thee hence to a witchdoctor so you can experience them.

So why are you here telling people to get psychiatric evaluations?

seeing as how MY reality matches up with the majority's

I will not dismiss my observations simply because others claim to have not observed the things I have.

You'll agree it's the logical conclusion to draw if you were in my shoes.

That statement is equally true regardless of which one of us is saying it.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by first class soldier


no flag cuz you said some demons were good fail they are all evil... some are just less evil.... other than that i agree with most of the other stuff

Thats just it, how do you know what is good and what is evil, because you read it somewhere. Try looking at it with a more open mind, maybe a demon is some powerful entity that is more intelligent than us, then like op said they get yanked out of their world and into ours, how do you think anything would react to that., Demon is just another word for an unknown entity as far as I am concerned. Maybe our religions said that they were all evil because they didnt understand the dynamics of these beings yet, and feared them because of their intelligence, and power. Whos to say that demons are wrong because of what they do in their own realm, do we know what they do?........nope, not even a little. Maybe our religions lied to us to make us believe that these beings are all evil, and that we have to trust our churches for salvation, it would be the only way for control back then, (fear, and control thru religion) Also, have you met all demons? probably not, like the old saying goes, its the few who ruin it for the many, maybe it was just a few demons who had real bad days, or felt threatened by the situation they were in, and reacted the best way they know how to defend themselves. Ya gotta look outside the box man............... Look at all angles before making a decision

reply to post by crazydaisy


In reply, ive been told that more "paranormal" happenings are occurring now because everything is energy and we are approaching the Galactic Centre,the galactic equator, actually the peak is 21 12 2012, therefore coming into contact with the massive energy release from there, which brings with it all sorts of increases in happenings paranormal, and more...Geoff Stray says in my interviews on youtube [2012 - what it means] that the pineal gland has magnetite in it, however small, which is responsible for visions etc, and that is affected by the energy increase greatly, hence the increase of "paranormal happenings" [sic.]..dont know if its true, but i think it could well be
....great thread...i have a few thousand questions also...i think belief in Christ is a great help in dealing with negative wotevers...ironically, i was watching this "andrea" yesterday, who talks about the demons and 3 "gods" she came into contact with, and interracted with for some time...true?...could be = www.youtube.com... - ...i think ets are not demons,well not genuine ets, but do come from another dimension, and pop in ours, or even stay if their DNA allows them..there are reports of whole groups of them living peacefully at various places, one being Edwards AFB in the USA...and even the Sammi people of Lapland are suppposed to be originated from ets, and have different tooth system, for example...actual "light beings" coming from a much higher density, or dimension,,,but there again the devil can take on any form...why are demons/spirits so tricky? does this prove theyre from the dark side wanting to trick?...as i said, the devil is very tricky, and his greatest achievement is to make you believe he doesnt exist...namaste...b. www.youtube.com/butlincat2 www.myspace.com/butlincat

[edit on 10-6-2010 by butlincat2]

Originally posted by mf_luder
Are demons real?

I will post more as the day goes on, I've only given you what I can from work, I'll post more once I get home and have my resources available.

So you work for the military in intelligence yet you're posting this from work on ATS? Surely a flag will be raised?