“All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns”

reply to post by nenothtu


You make a valid point friend.

The use of english on large protestors banners in the recent Iranian elections was evidence of another agenda at play.

The use of english in the arab/muslim world with press cameras present is usually a sign that 'someone' is trying to communicate to the west, whether it allegedly be a 'CIA colour revolution' or something else.

OKeefe seems a bit phony to me too for what its worth......just another grabber......
The activists orchestrated the scenario as best they could to put the Isrealis
in a bind.
Now they are reaping whatever sympathy points they can in order to get what their agenda calls for.
LOOK< everybody does it!
Dont you think we are all a bit tired of the political theater played for the worlds sympathy by every damn organisation that wants something?
The facts are that these people wanted to get some martyrs .
The whole operation was concieved to have a conforntation with the isrealis.
The hope was to have some bodies to hold funerals for and stretch the news coverage out as long as they can milk it.
The IDF warned them and offered options other than the confrontational stance the activists took.
When they did not heed the IDF and insisted on sailing towards Gaza......
Well it seems to me they got what they set out accomplish.
Now we will hear all the back and forth BS that always goes on for ad nauseum after such scenarios get enacted...
Just remember its all an act.
its all just somebodys idea of how to get more attention for their agenda.
I do not for one moment believe that the leaders of the flotilla are saddened by the deaths of their comrades.
I rather think that they were seeking just such deaths to hold up to us for sympathy.
The Mullahs dont care if they send another million suicide bombers out to jihad.
They have no concern for human life except their own.
Just like the goverment doesnt care particularly about the deaths or maiming of our own soldiers...as long as they get the results they want it matters not who dies.
Everybody lies, and everybody is out for #1.
Thats the problem.
WHO CAN YOU TRUST?

Originally posted by Flatwoods
How about the Palestinians stop shooting rockets into Israel? Then there wouldn't need to be a blockade in the first place.....

this is why it's collective punishment. Imagine your city was cut off and fenced by say China (hypothetical), you couldn't leave no matter what, your community cannot get concrete to rebuild your sons school or your army bunker where you work for that matter. In this massive city a moderately small bunch that you can't control launch virtually useless rockets. why are you to suffer?? why does the whole city suffer?

Originally posted by Flatwoods
All the Palestinians see is soldiers, and their goal is kill every single Israeli........

Urge you to consider a goal of a free state without being policed and told what to do in every level of their administrations by people they don't like and of different faith. Also a goal may include getting back Dad's and Grandpa's land! On accasions the goal may be to seek justice that is so unobtainable for non-jews.

Yep, the IDF is a bunch of murderers.

As I said before, they could have had a helicopter smoke everyone on that deck like a pack of Kools, but they didn't. They showed restraint.

Takes some freakin' balls to fastrope on a deck with a bunch of ass-clowns armed with pipes and knives waiting for you.

You dont get it...they launch the rockets from populated places.
This serves a twofold purpose...
They have a better chance of surviving the launch proceedure....
And if isreal responds with return fire the chances are some will go astray and kill some innocents so they can call the Isrealis murderers and killers.
The palistinians are initiating the voilence.
Have you heard of many isreali suicide bombers?
If you attack any people constantly even if it is just harrassing fire causing relatively litle damage or deaths......you have to expect the same in return sooner or later.
And if you dont stop well.....what do you expect?
Truth is the Palistinians and the Isrealis are en masse far from sane anymore....
The conditioning has gone on too long,
There will be less and less rationality exhibited as time goes by.
on both sides.....

They will see how small they are this I promise everyone...
Here two...

[edit on 7-6-2010 by NWOWILLFALL]

Originally posted by Flatwoods
I would like to add one more thing: I don't hate Arabs, or Muslims, or Palestinians, or any group based on their ethnicity. What I hate is terrorists.


What I mean by terrorist are people who bomb, kill, and maim soft targets because they don't have the strength or the guts to form a real army, one that plays by actual rules. And when I say I hate terrorists I mean the following:

Hamas
Hezbollah
Al-Queda
The IRA
The ETA
The Red Shirts
The Ku Klux Klan
The Church of the Creator
The PLO
The Red Army Faction
MS13
PETA
FARC
etc., etc.

I don't like political activists much either.







[edit on 7-6-2010 by Flatwoods]

You forgot Israel's army who shoots kids who throw rocks at tanks.
You forgot US military who raids homes in Iraq.
You forgot many others. Oh..the point was those who DON'T have the strength to fight an army.

Well, we do and yet, we murdered over 500,000 Iraqis.

Originally posted by Axial Leader

Originally posted by SyphonX
The character assassination of this man is already starting to nauseate me. "I don't know him very well, but I bet he's a flake. Utter BS.

You are unreal buddy.

This self-promoter O'Keefehas a right to spout off, renounce his citizenship, make any BS claim in the interest of promoting war and hate.

But somehow calling him a flake (which he obviously is, teardrop in the corner of his eye all all) -- that is character assassination?

This guy renounced his citizenship. Follow his lead if you think it was such a cool thing.

This is typical around ATS, believe anything that backs you up and denounce anything that doesn't, even if it makes you a hypocrite. Pretty sad.

Caveat Lector- The people in Gaza should not allow Hamas to use them as human shields if they don't want Israel to attack. How about rising up against Hamas.

Smurfy- Minuscule?!?!?! in 2008 alone 3,278 rockets and mortars were fired into Israel. From Dec. 27, 2008 to January 15, 2009 that number was 771. You really call that minuscule?!?!?!

Originally posted by Caveat Lector

Originally posted by Flatwoods
How about the Palestinians stop shooting rockets into Israel? Then there wouldn't need to be a blockade in the first place.....

this is why it's collective punishment. Imagine your city was cut off and fenced by say China (hypothetical), you couldn't leave no matter what, your community cannot get concrete to rebuild your sons school or your army bunker where you work for that matter. In this massive city a moderately small bunch that you can't control launch virtually useless rockets. why are you to suffer?? why does the whole city suffer?

Originally posted by Flatwoods
All the Palestinians see is soldiers, and their goal is kill every single Israeli........

Urge you to consider a goal of a free state without being policed and told what to do in every level of their administrations by people they don't like and of different faith. Also a goal may include getting back Dad's and Grandpa's land! On accasions the goal may be to seek justice that is so unobtainable for non-jews.

Hmmm...let me think. If I were in the shoes of the Palestinians, I might consider not shooting rockets into Israel. This might earn enough trust to end the blockade. Then I might want to renounce terrorism and suicide bombing.

Imagine that. That would prevent retaliatory attacks from the IDF, one would think. In fact, I'm absolutely sure it would. It's called a cease-fire.

Once I've spent a good decade or so building a trusting and positive relationship with the Israelis, then and only then would it be time to petition for legal restitution of seized Palestinian land. That would be the correct way to do it, and the only way that someone like me would ever support the Palestinian cause.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by Flatwoods]

reply to post by Axial Leader


You keep reiterating some 'fact' about him renouncing his citizenship, as if this is some sort of untold evil or complete discrediting of a person's worth. I'm not following, and I don't think it's "cool" to renounce your citizenship. To each their own. Plenty of people are fed up with their country to the point that they refuse to bear it's flag anymore. Good for them, they exercise their right to do so.

Moving on. The point of this "character assassination" claim I made, is because rather than people talk about the incident or try to show evidence that he is false in his claims, people like you, just try to "talk about his past".. and a past that isn't even worth mentioning.

"He renounced his citizenship OMG!!" "He runs a site, and maybe even tries to publish himself.. OMG!!"

Get over this crap, there is nothing being added. I wouldn't have made the effort with all of this if you would have just mentioned it, rather than spouting off and calling him a flake, a loser, a crybaby activist, coward.. etc., trying to discredit this entire thread.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Well they were all written by the same person .. so probably an idiot that isn't even from Israel (English is not the official language) .. or hell, it actually could have been the photographer. What are the odds a single photographer happens upon the writings of one person at several locations to take a picture of them?

And Palestinians are not Arab. Only people from Arabia are Arabs.. Palestinians are Semites.

Actually they are multiple different photographers. See the source of the images.

Second line.

reply to post by Flatwoods



You seem to have put a lot of conditions on what it would take for you to see both sides of this coin.

If there was 1 lesson learned in South Africa, it is that apartheid states will not work. There can be no separate, no separate but equal...nothing separate. All citizens, all people, must be treated with equality.

Claiming land by bulldozing neighborhoods is not how you endear the people to you. If it were me, I would be killing people in revenge, too. How many of my nephews, neices, sons....how many should i watch being killed by a "defense force" that treats me and my loved ones like animals? That forced their way into our land, and then had the rest of the world expect us to not defend our land.

I mean, has anyone ever really sat down and thought about this from a Palestinian point of view?

At every turn, the West antagonizes. It certainly is to the point where peace may be a pipe dream. They are pissed, and have been for about 2-3 generations now. What do you expect?

reply to post by SyphonX



To some degree, a persons past might give insight into their present. Tried and true methodology, for the most part.

Regardless, unless he was discharged dishonorably, he served the nation that i love, and that definitely boosts his rep, for me.


Regardless, it is too early to decide if he is a hero, without knowing him more personally. I admire his conviction to stopping war. I am a big patriot, but more of the stripe of Smedley Butler, in my opinion one of the finest Americans to ever live.

But this mans service was to humanity, not America. His patriotism and loyalty to America is not up for discussion, you are right.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Well they were all written by the same person .. so probably an idiot that isn't even from Israel (English is not the official language) .. or hell, it actually could have been the photographer. What are the odds a single photographer happens upon the writings of one person at several locations to take a picture of them?

And Palestinians are not Arab. Only people from Arabia are Arabs.. Palestinians are Semites.

The first and last picture are exactly the same place. Look at the green splotches on the doors.

Specifically, I believe the 'palestinians' started out as Jordaians.

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You make a valid point friend.

The use of english on large protestors banners in the recent Iranian elections was evidence of another agenda at play.

The use of english in the arab/muslim world with press cameras present is usually a sign that 'someone' is trying to communicate to the west, whether it allegedly be a 'CIA colour revolution' or something else.

Yes, I've noticed that a LOT over the years, and strangely enough, most Americans don't realize it until I point it out.

Originally posted by NWOWILLFALL
They will see how small they are this I promise everyone...
Here two...

[edit on 7-6-2010 by NWOWILLFALL]

Who? Both sides are pretty damned tiny...

Here two, too.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Well they were all written by the same person .. so probably an idiot that isn't even from Israel (English is not the official language) .. or hell, it actually could have been the photographer. What are the odds a single photographer happens upon the writings of one person at several locations to take a picture of them?

And Palestinians are not Arab. Only people from Arabia are Arabs.. Palestinians are Semites.

Actually they are multiple different photographers. See the source of the images.

Second line.

Again, the first image and the third are of the same grafitto. Couldn't find more than two of them? Wonder how far apart they are, in both time and space?

[edit on 2010/6/7 by nenothtu]

reply to post by GorehoundLarry



Let's observe the following video shall we?

Notice it is some Fundemental Islamist's wet dream in promoting the cause; David vs Goliath if you will, with the IDF soldier playing Goliath.




Now, watch what the soldier doesn't do when a kid repeatedly throws stones at him.

Look familiar?

Maybe like the footage of the Navy Commandos landing on the deck, to be greeted by brutality and not instinctively returning the courtesy until their lives were in danger and the heroic Ken O' Keefe had disarmed 2 of them.






[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by Skellon


Your title says "military analyst". I have never served, as a disclaimer. That may make my opinion worthless here.

But, as an analyst, would you not say that if you were going to board a ship, you would ensure that you boarded with enough available force to ensure success and minimal casualties?

Would you not desire a clear drop point so that your troops can get into position with the least amount of risk?

Would you not feel that if you were sending your troops into close quarter situations on a boat, that maybe a paintball gun would be inadequate to subdue the target?

And, as a commander, would you not be derelict in your duty, and commiting a travesty to your soldiers, by not following the 5 P's? (Proper planning prevents poor performance)

If you are going to board a ship in the open sea, at night, you have to expect to be entering a hostile situation. It was amateurish the way this was done. Israels forcing of the confrontation is the cause of the issue, not the people on the boat, who were defending their boat.

The levels of stupidity in the actions of Israel in this situation is mind numbing. You have to wonder what they are thinking. There is no way that a nation could create such a huge blunder unless it was on purpose. Or they are completely incompetant.

Ken makes me want to join the Marines...An idea I gave up on due to an overtly corrupt government and war...That sort of merit, and the usefulness of that training, it could and does help a movement get its point across.

Fantastic representation of the real America.

Video some may find interesting from liveleak

Rare footage from my cousin inside Khan Younis, analyze by my brother here in Beirut. Hamas murders Gazans at a wedding, preparing to execute Fatah members in Gaza

Video Here: www.liveleak.com...