“All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns”

I saw Ken O'Keefe on a news clip yesterday, sure looked beat up, he reckons it happened while in custody.
What I found a little strange was his obsession with his Palestinian Passport they took from him, he couldn't stop talking about it.

Isn't it easy to get a replacement Passport? and after being through all that he claims, a stolen Passport would be the last thing on your mind.

Somethings don't add up here.
.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

Concrete. Food. Medicines. Reading materials, education supplies etc. Water.

Things not allowed: Chemicals used for homemade rockets. rockets. Guns. Ammunition. Armor. Etc.

Oh, money is also welcomed.

Since the end of 2000, Arab states have transferred to the Palestinian Authority monthly financial aid of $45 million (since April 2002 this sum was increased to $55 million). The European Union (EU) transfers to the PA approximately $9 million monthly. By the end of 2001, the Palestinians had received $4 billion (the figure is now closer to $5.5 billion) since the 1993 Oslo agreements.

This is the equivalent of $1,330 per Palestinian. By comparison, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after World War II provided $272 per European (in today's dollars)."

Most of the money is squandered away by corrupt government officials, and while Arafat was alive the money was simply put into his personal bank account. On average the vast majority of aid supplies still comes from outside sources, even though the Government receives enough money to fund the entire Palestinian operation, as they are roughly the size of a typical American county.

These funds also do not represent the hundreds of millions donated by private organization and charities.

israelipalestinian.procon.org...

You are so damn uninformed, it's not funny!

Interesting.. so, you can say as you please, imo you simply put your foot in your mouth, but what ever. But please.. by all means, refute my statements.

The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees Unrwa's list of household items that have been refused entry at various times includes light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, pasta, tea, coffee, chocolate, nuts, shampoo and conditioner.

It helps when you don't take sources out of context.

And please note.. I never said the blockade was acceptable, I don't believe it is.. I don't believe Israel should be choking Gaza or the Westbank the way it does, regardless of if it's being attacked by rocket fire. But to say that no aid is allowed into Palestine is not just ignorant, it's a complete lie.

And some stuff that they refuse to allow in, like refrigerators, make little sense, not that they would be effective given Palestines rolling blackouts. Also it is true they used to refuse wood and concrete until the beginning of 2010 -- wood and concrete are not meant to build rockets, the main idea behind Israels blockade is to make the people so miserably unhappy that they will elect someone else come next election.

news.bbc.co.uk... (your source you forgot to post)

Sorry! BBC was not my source!

As far as I know, Paper & books is still prohibited:

Reading materials, education supplies etc.

But yeah, the lists apparently changes from month to month, and it seems they are now going to allow more items in comparison with what they did allow a few months ago!

What I reflecteted on in your post, was that you said in the post I answering to was that only weapons, military material and certain chemicals were forbidden items.

And that was not entirely correct! and that would be kind of evil if you had been following the developments from 2007 and after operation 'Cast Lead' to early spring 2010 - then you could see that more usual everyday items including vital products for everyday activity were also prohibited.

Since it's apperently okey to cite Israeli sources, this source from the Israeli newspaper Haaratz should be okey then.

Amira Hass / Israel bans books, music and clothes from entering Gaza

Merchants are forbidden from importing anything not listed as food, medicine, or detergent.

Israel allows only food, medicine and detergent into the Gaza Strip. Thousands of items, including vital products for everyday activity, are forbidden.

Altogether only 30 to 40 select commercial items are now allowed into the Gaza Strip, compared to 4,000 that had been approved before the closure Israel imposed on Gaza following the abduction of Gilad Shalit, according to merchants and human rights activists.

The number of items changes according to what is determined by The Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories. COGAT has refused the PA representative's request for an updated list of the items permitted into Gaza in writing, and passes the information only via the telephone.

Gaza merchants are forbidden to import canned goods, plastic sheeting, toys and books, although the United Nations Relief and Works Agency and other aid organizations are permitted to bring them into the strip.

The few items merchants are allowed to trade in are divided into three categories: food, medicine and detergent. Everything else is forbidden - including building materials (which are necessary to rehabilitate Gaza's ruins and rebuild its infrastructure), electric appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines, spare machine and car parts, fabrics, threads, needles, light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, cutlery, crockery, cups, glasses and animals. Many of the banned products are imported through the tunnels and can be found in Gaza's markets.

Pasta, which had been forbidden in the past, is now allowed, after U.S. Senator John Kerry expressed his astonishment at the ban during a visit to Gaza in February.

But tea, coffee, sausages, semolina, milk products in large packages and most baking products are forbidden. So are industrial commodities for manufacturing food products, chocolate, sesame seeds and nuts.

Israel does allow importing fruit, milk products in small packages and frozen food products as well as limited amounts of industrial fuel.
---
The ban on toilet paper, diapers and sanitary napkins was lifted three months ago. A little more than a month ago, following a long ban, Israel permitted the import of detergents and soaps into Gaza. Even shampoo was allowed. But one merchant discovered that the bottles of shampoo he had ordered were sent back because they included conditioner, which was not on the list.

Five weeks ago Israel allowed margarine, salt and artificial sweetener to be brought into Gaza. Legumes have been allowed for the past two months and yeast for the past two weeks. Contrary to rumors, Israel has not banned sugar.

www.haaretz.com...

So here we can see that not only weapons and war material and certain chemicals has been prohibited items goods.

The reasons to why they had som many everyday items on the lists must be because of some kind of collective punishment - because why should you otherwise make books, music, light bulbs, candles, toilet paper, toys, crayons & paper for the children, choclate, sage and ginger etc etc prohibited? It would not make sense!

The good news now, is that the lists seems to include more and more of the Necessities because of the International pressure on Israel.

But not everything is fine and peachy at the Gaza border for importing - to say so would be a purely evil act against the Palestinian people and children of Gaza.

This is one more recent list from MAY 2010 of prohibited and permitted items to Gaza - and it seems that they are beginning to allow some more goods - which is a good development

PDF from the Israeli Ghisa org - a 2005-founded Israeli NGO:
gisha.org...

But mind you, the lesser restriction only happened after International pressure on Israel from the UN and human rights groups & humanitarian organisations.

The goal of the humanitarian groups is to get them to allow everything which is not weapons or war material.

A Gisha May 6 news release said that:

After 12 months of unsuccessful (Freedom of Information Act) attempts (to) obtain (Israeli) documentation about (its) policy concerning the entry of food and other goods into (Gaza), and after claiming for many months that no such documents exist, Israel has finally admitted that it does indeed possess the information (including) a list of goods whose admission into (Gaza) is permitted.” More on this below.

In 2009, one of several Haaretz reports alleged arbitrariness and corruption in Israel’s Gaza policy as well as vagueness about what constitutes “humanitarian,” let alone the low quantities let in that fall far below minimally sustainable levels for 1.5 million people. As a result, other humanitarian aid efforts and Gaza’s tunnel economy supplement to compensate, but never enough to relieve dire conditions that worsen, not improve.

Gisha’s Obtained Israeli Documents

A document called “Food Needs in Gaza – Red Lines,” that reportedly establishes minimal nutritional requirements for subsistence, or as Ehud Olmert advisor Dov Weisglass said in early 2006:

“The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.” In other words, make them suffer enough to reject Hamas or force its officials to accede to Israeli demands and function like Fatah as Tel Aviv’s enforcer – and if fail at both, slowly suffocate and strangle the entire population.

inteldaily.com...

The whole blockade boils down to one thing: as inhumane Collective Punishment for the children and people of Gaza, the whole population - because of Hamas.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


Wow

Nice bit of homework. I feel far more informed from your research.

Thanks!!!

Originally posted by Village Idiot
I saw Ken O'Keefe on a news clip yesterday, sure looked beat up, he reckons it happened while in custody.
What I found a little strange was his obsession with his Palestinian Passport they took from him, he couldn't stop talking about it.

Isn't it easy to get a replacement Passport? and after being through all that he claims, a stolen Passport would be the last thing on your mind.

Somethings don't add up here.
.

Yeah, it's not like the Israelis would use his details for passport forgery etc....oh, wait! They do that too.

reply to post by Peruvianmonk

Yeah,an ex-marine claiming all he saw was "Cowards with guns",I seem to remember being a coward with a gun once,and I am not at all proud of it.

I don't care what branch of the military you were in,I don't care how much good you thought you did for the world,I don't care if you are still too ignorant to admit to yourself what a soldier is,or in denial of it.

A soldier is a murderer,that is his damned job.

So give credit where credit is due,there ain't none due here.

Politicians rely on ignorant children to do their dirty work,whether one did it in the past,or is still doing it,anyone who did the dirty work for them is still guilty by association.



[edit on 8-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

[edit on 8-6-2010 by chiponbothshoulders]

Why wouldn't he be pissed?

He was in international waters.
He wasn't an Illegal imigrant, infact he was taken to Israel AGAINST his will.
What RIGHT did they have to take ANYTHING from him or any of the others that were kidnapped???

at the end of the day their holy book, the talmud dictates Judaism

read some of the 'laws' not all but many Jews follow

www.belowtopsecret.com...

[edit on 8/6/10 by Caveat Lector]

I found a video of Ken O'keef being interviewed in Turkey,after his ordeal.

Warning Graphic injuries/blood.



Apologies if this has been posted already.

Originally posted by Village Idiot
I saw Ken O'Keefe on a news clip yesterday, sure looked beat up, he reckons it happened while in custody.
What I found a little strange was his obsession with his Palestinian Passport they took from him, he couldn't stop talking about it.

Isn't it easy to get a replacement Passport? and after being through all that he claims, a stolen Passport would be the last thing on your mind.

Somethings don't add up here.
.

If i'm correct, he was saying he was a citizen of Palestine and had the right to be deported to there.

This whole affair is coming out for what it is, very bad PR for the Israeli's.

After everything, all the hype, the tit for tat abuse, the ranting and raving on ATS and other forums and the rampant media whoring that is going on...You need to take a step back and look at the whole affair objectively.

Here is what I think happened leading to the results we have now:

1. Flotilla (and other associated Gaza aid projects) have been very visibly notifying Israel and the world of their intentions, there was no secret in what they wanted to do.

2. Israel being Israel decided they wanted to send a clear message, "The people of Gaza are not your problem" and to ensure the message would be loud and clear, they used their trademark methods to terrorise the people on that boat. THEY WANTED TO ENSURE NO ONE ELSE WOULD GET THE IDEA OF TRYING TO REACH GAZA WITH AID.

3. So they formulate a plan to attack the Flotilla a week in advance (news already surfaced confirming this).

4. Israel launches an assault, firing at the boat from the sky, blowing out the windows (whereby the captain of the ship started to warn everyone to run for cover) and eventually killing someone (the captain I think?).

5. The people on Flotilla, as a result of the carnage caused by the IDF commandos, decide to (quite rightly) defend themselves as they genuinely believe they are about to die.

6. In ensuing chaos the soldiers shoot and maim some of their own, while this is going on a few are disarmed and eventually given humanitarian treatment.

7. A sergeant or someone high up realises (another) cock up has occurred so they decide to confiscate every camera and enforce a media blackout to ensure only the cameras on their soldiers are active (and therefore can easily be spliced and diced later on).

8. The news travels around the world and back again until Israel, realising how much they really seriously ****** up their PR status then try to fill a giant hole with a drain plug - they don't touch the Rachel Corrie boat, sending a clear message they hate the Turks.

9. After many clichés we end up with the current news where the body count goes from 6 to 19 and back down again. So much BS is free flowing through the current media that you can almost smell it.

10. After many more clichés we may well end up with World War III but very many more players on the table or a completely different war game that no one expected.

And so we end up here, with stuff like this and other topics.

People need to face facts, Israel has NO intention of every meeting a Palestinian (or any Arab) person(s) to discuss any kind of peace deal, peace in the eyes of the Israelis is to have total domination of the land (whether this means subjugating the people to a life long prison term or through the ravages of war with an ever increasing body count).

Israel is clever, she rules the world by proxy, never amassing full power (as to do so would openly admit what they are up to) but staying just behind the scenes to effect enough control as to ensure it's survival and grip on the rest of the world (via tools such as Mossad etc).

Equally the Arabs don't give a 'isht' about Palestine, they have a massive oil business to protect and they will not 'stain' their country by open their doors to amnesty and immigration (if you ever wanted to know who is really against any kind of free energy, alternative energy scheme it's the hyper rich Arab elites who control the oil business in the middle east).

So the Palestinians are screwed up from either side but eventually they have to defend themselves and they do through mechanisms like Hamas etc (even if they are completely misguided).

This conflict will go on until the end of time, Israel the tyrannical state hell bent on 'Greater Israel' and the annihilation of any/every Palestinian/Arab and the other hand, you got the Palestinians and freedom fighters trying to fight back.

Sticks and Stones May Break My Bones...

Peace

O'Keefe was just one of many troublemakers aboard the ship that day, they were there to incite trouble for the Israelis and they did so to the satisfaction of the left and the various Islamic terrorist groups sponsoring their actions, O'Keefe is not worthy of being a Marine or an American and hopefully he will remain with his people the moslems.

reply to post by Chevalerous


Exactly pal. Collective punishment. Which is outlawed by the Geneva Convention.

Obviously it did not stop the British and Americans with their bombings of German and Japanese cities, but that was a proper war.

The situation in the whole of former Palestine is an occupation/apartheid state.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

Originally posted by Cito
lot of people forget Israel shipping drugs into the US with CIA approval during the Iran Contra scandal, along with weapons to Panama.

Jews only further their own stereotypes, it's got to the point where it's not racist it's actually true, they will screw over their own allys when it comes to money. They will even give guns to muslims if the price tag is right. Just look at Iran Contra.

Jews scream about antisemitism but it's only a cover to try and change the herd mentality to think they are most innocent. When in fact Jew stereotypes are 100% truthful. They just try to cover it up.

Interesting post as well as many others here. You state JEWS stereotypes are 100% truthful? Your post along with some others are as blatant antisemitism as they get and you don't even realize you are doing it!...or maybe you do! YOU do relize that you are lumping all JEWS of the world into a category. THIS WAS DONE BY ISRAELIS! yes they are Jews but there are Jews all over the world!...American Jews,Egyptian Jews, British Jews, German Jews, yes even Iranian Jews!....hell why not lump all Christians together around the world and hate them as well!!!

For some reason..people always blame all Jews for what Israel does....got news for you many Jews do not support many of Israels actions.

[edit on 6/8/2010 by CaptGizmo]

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
If it were not such a serious situation,it would be absolutley laughable that the Israelis have claimed that Ken O'Keefe had terror links,after all a true terrorist would not have taken the bullets out of the handgun-rather he would have used that gun to kill some of the commandos.

Well done Ken O'Keefe,and I hope he recovers fast and fully from his ordeal.

I agree that he was probably targeted for especially brutal treatment due to being a former US marine.

Well done Israel(big sarcasm).

The USMC stick together you know-and now you have abused one of their family.

Not a wise move.

What do you think the Corp is going to do? Invade on their own? They are a branch of the US Navy, an American fighting force. I know lots of jarheads and right now they are saying this guy is a jackass for being on the boat. That is the mentality of a Marine. Don't assume that because the brotherhood of the Corp protects their own, that they are going to destroy Israel. The Brotherhood protects your ass in bar-fights and foxholes.
I am however, highly interested in the torture of prisoners after they docked the ship. I thought they were simply deporting everyone. This changes alot of things.

reply to post by Cito


Lots of people forget that Islamic terrorist have killed thousands of Americans, made dozens of other attempts to do so, they leave the British alone since they British are exposing their underbellies and kowtowing to Shira law, in their own country, how does it feel to be an insignifent part of the worldwide caliphate.

Originally posted by Eagleheart56
reply to post by Cito

 

Lots of people forget that Islamic terrorist have killed thousands of Americans, made dozens of other attempts to do so, they leave the British alone since they British are exposing their underbellies and kowtowing to Shira law, in their own country, how does it feel to be an insignifent part of the worldwide caliphate.

I am no Christian, but would like to share a bit of Christian teaching that often goes completely ignored by Christs followers:

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. "

So lets apply some empathy to this situation....

If you are American, you likely grew up with summers spent playing baseball, and having barbcues with your family. I bet there was some good watermelons, and as you got older you enjoyed girls and beer during these summers.

Most of us go home today and turn on our flat panel televisions, crank up the air conditioner, and maybe enjoy a cool beverage.

When we put our own children to sleep, just like our parents did, we read them a book by the soft glow of a dim light.

This doesn't happen in Palestine. In Palestine, these things are not allowed in, and even if they were Mazlow prevents the ability to use something like a flat panel TV for all but a few people.

Terrorists are, like any other murderer, criminals. You do not punish an entire population because of their criminals. Doing so creates a spiraling effect of increasing violence and hatred.

That summer you enjoyed as a child, those electronics you have today...they were all gained under the boot of an American soldier. Often, under that boot is the neck of these third world nations.

It is not wonder the west is hated. We have ignored the common sense advice provided by Jesus above.

It doesnt matter what you believe about the flotilla's. They did not try to board anyones boats or attack anyone's interests. There was no weapons of mass destruction, or weapons period on any of these boats. If there was, with all the propaganda Israel has put out, these surely would have been shown and exploited by now. No the only thing to be shown as weapons so far are materials that anybody would find in a typical garage throughout the world. As far as getting technical and getting to the grit of the matter, I have a wonderful article that pretty much sums it up.

www.sott.net...

In order to enforce a blockade of the Gaza Strip, Israeli special forces carried out a late-night raid on an unarmed, civilian humanitarian relief convoy in international waters that sought free passage to territory Israel occupies

There are more and more countries, people and organizations lining up now, to do exactly what these flotilla's set out to do. It will be interesting to see what tact Israel uses in the coming weeks and months. I have my opinion on how they will react but hope I am wrong. They seem to want to use their religious belief to set diplomatic relations. This makes them no better than the one's they hate. I hope the best for the coming humanitarians.

George Galloway, the founder of Viva Palestina, announced in London that two simultaneous convoys "one by land via Egypt and the other by sea" would set out in September to break the Gaza blockade. The sea convoy of up to 60 ships will travel around the Mediterranean gathering ships, cargo and volunteers

I also found this video a bit shocking and revealing. Does this really looking like any people looking for peace or peaceful solutions? Looks just like the radicals who used to burn American flags and scream death to America.

Originally posted by virgom129
Why wouldn't he be pissed?

He was in international waters.
He wasn't an Illegal imigrant, infact he was taken to Israel AGAINST his will.
What RIGHT did they have to take ANYTHING from him or any of the others that were kidnapped???

They warned the 'Free Gaza' bunch of cronies that they would stop them if they attempted.

They did not heed the warning, and in not heeding the warning, made themselves a clear security issue to Israel.

It really doesn't get any more simple.



[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by super genius

My aren't we just full of ourselves.
If you are the same guy on Philly.com you should return there.
The fact is the Zionists believe in supremacy.
Now we know that due to their unique genetic makeup (Finally.), they have remained an isolated sub-species. Most likely they have done this for their own purposes but they may also have not been allowed to breed with the rest of us.

This indicates that they can have an agenda that is only known to them. They have the ultimate security code, their DNA. If you don't pass that test, you never become part of the cabal.

I like the fact that this is known now. It'll make it easier to figure out who needs to be vetted when this is all over.


[edit on 8-6-2010 by largo]

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Hi Silicone,

Thanks for the video.

It would seem he disarmed 1 S13 soldier by taking his gun from behind and he was involved in taking an assault rifle off another with his 'brothers.'

The OP makes it sound like he disarmed 2 single handedly.

Kind regards,

Skellon.