“All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns”

reply to post by Sickle_And_Hammer

Originally posted by Sickle_And_Hammer
Ken makes me want to join the Marines...An idea I gave up on due to an overtly corrupt government and war...That sort of merit, and the usefulness of that training, it could and does help a movement get its point across.

Fantastic representation of the real America.

With a handle like "Sickle_And_Hammer", and your fear of war, I'd urge you to reconsider dumping yourself into the middle of a bunch of US Marines. The USMC, in common with the rest of the US services, doesn't allow you to pick and choose which war you want to participate in. They send you where they need you to be.

The thing that really killed me during Desert Shield was the sheer number of kids boarding the planes and ships to head into war saying "Nobody told me I'd have to go to WAR!" What did they think, joining up to begin with? That the service was a social club?

You sound like the MS-13 members and their ilk, who only want to join the military to get some combat training, so they can use it to pursue their own agenda afterward.

[edit on 2010/6/8 by nenothtu]

reply to post by Skellon


so your nature is basically to be the opposite of everything else to be the "cool" "rebel"

And out come all the egos, hoping to stray into the media spotlight.

Are all these people REALLY helping the Palestinians or just making themselves feel good ?!

Israel killing people is no different to the killing of innocents in Afghanistan.

Western people, ESPECIALLY in the USA are very hypocritical when it comes to this.

They love jumping on the latest bandwagon (as long as it doesn't involve stuff about them).

reply to post by Eagleheart56


You are not trained in combat. If you were your statement would be an obviously erroneous one and you would not state it. If you are coming around a corner, if you are distracted, if you are busy shooting the unarmed and last, if you are just an idiot (which these commandos (?!?) were) you can be disarmed.
You are amongst those who need to be taught many things. I hope that it's someone like this ex-marine that does it. You'd survive your lesson then.

[edit on 8-6-2010 by largo]

reply to post by NaturaltoBelieve


It's all wrong, bubba. To not take a stand every time something bad happens, which is every stinking moment, may be a result of trying to get something to eat.

What we need is to stop the war machine. We need to abandon the current governments. I honestly can't think of a good one. We need to reformat the way we are doing things. I think that we all have reached the point where we want change.

Don't support the system. You don't have to fight. Don't vote, don't campaign, don't support the early payment of taxes. Things need to be brought to a head.

It's gonna be a mess in either case. If they keep going like this or if they are halted in their tracks.

I wish all you bleeding heart, anti-semite liberals would all get on the same boat or airplane and go to Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Russia. You know, where you will be appreciated.
Seeashrink

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


ever knowtice everytime israel does something its ALWAYS mossad agents! it always has the same ring to it, israeli solders, probably mossad agents did blah blah blah.

ps that marine got lucky, and solder from any country would kill anybody trying to take away a weapon from them, technically he became a combatant at that very moment! look at the US roe it says the same thing, any attempt to injure or destroy a solder or us equipment authorizes deadly force. as a marine you would think he would not be so stupid and know better

[edit on 8-6-2010 by jakemil]

[edit on 8-6-2010 by jakemil]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Hi big,

'Shayetet 13' are the Israeli equivalent to the US Navy Seals or Britain's SBS.
They have a long history and are considered one of Israels more experienced SF's.

Before 'Operation Sea Breeze' (Mavi Marmara incident) they had successfully 'intercepted' the Antiguan MV Francop, a ship said to be carrying arms to Hezbullah late last year.

I will admit that the boarding tactic was a bungled effort, they should have approached the ship from bow and stern and gone in hard and fast, they actually went in 'soft'.

There were many factors that occured that could have indeed saved the loss of life. They simply did not anticipate violent 'resistance' and were caught with their 'pants down'. This is evident in the footage submitted by both 'sides'.

I beleive it was a combination of 'going in soft' and using an overt tactic to make a statement to the press, that they knew were onboard.

This, I would hang around the neck of Binyamin Netanyahu and the politicians. Netanyahu, himself a previous member of Israels equivalent to Britain's SAS; the 'Sayeret Matkal' (their most elite SF).

They were armed with non-lethal paintball markers and live weapons as a backup. They would have used the markers for two reasons; one would have been to detter any advances and secondly to literally mark any aggressors for later processing.

As all eyes were going to be on this operation, they did not want the image of 'commandos with heavy weapons' boarding ships full of peace activists on CNN. I believe this was a political decision to try to assert that they could apply a 'measured response' when called for and it blew back in their faces.

With regards to the 'peace activists'; In my opinion there were military minds at work in the planning of the 'resistance' long before they left port.

Whether Mr O' Keefe had anything to do with this, we really don't know. I would like to think he was unaware and therefore a 'pawn' that may have got mixed up in the 'martyr' bravado filmed earlier in the voyage.

He has stated that he would die for his cause.


Kind regards,

Skellon.

Originally posted by debz325
All I see in Palestine is idiots with bombs strapped to them!

Well, then, debz, pull your head out of your arse and start paying attention and learn what is really going on over there!

[edit on 6/8/2010 by dubiousone]

Originally posted by Skellon

They were armed with non-lethal paintball markers and live weapons as a backup. They would have used the markers for two reasons; one would have been to detter any advances and secondly to literally mark any aggressors for later processing.

Not sure, but I think I read somewhere that they had pepper balls in the paintball guns rather than paintball markers. Still wouldn't have done much good with the opposition using gas masks.

Also, the kids around here are always borrowing one of my old flak vests for their paintball games. Evidently makes the impacts more bearable for them, So I'm sure that whichever type of balls were loaded, the ballistic vests helped with the 'invincibility' factor. Haven't read any reports of any of the deaders wearing vests, only seen pictures of the vests in piles, so I can't say if that explains the head shots or not.

Other than that, I agree with that post 100%. It was botched because no one anticipated violence from "peaceful protestors". A sad miscalculation that I bet don't get repeated again soon. If they HAD anticipated it, they probably WOULD have gone in hard and fast, as if they really meant it, and to hell with the TV cameras.


[edit on 2010/6/8 by nenothtu]

reply to post by nenothtu



Hello nenothtu,

As you seem to share an interest; did you notice the use of counter insertion tactics aswell?

Namely the fast ropes being anchored to the ship's radar dome, an extremely dangerous act for both the military and civilians aboard.


Kind regards, Skellon.





[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by grahag


Religion is not the reason, its the EXCUSE used to continue the wars so a few make money...

As always, follow the money...

reply to post by bladerunner44


he is a traitor who gives aid an comfort to our enemies


Who are the "our" you are referring to? Ceartainly aint me...

reply to post by Skellon


Every news report I saw in Australia mentioned war crimes by both Hamas and Israel.

Originally posted by Hulk Hogan
reply to post by Skellon

 

so your nature is basically to be the opposite of everything else to be the "cool" "rebel"

Hi Hulk,

And no, not to be the cool rebel, rather to try to educate and enlighten people who suffer from selective ignorance.


Kind regards, Skellon.


[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

reply to post by virgom129



Hi virgom129,

I have noticed from Australian posters on ATS that the Australian press seems to be a little more objective.

I may be wrong in this assumption, if so, please correct me.

Kind regards, Skellon

reply to post by Skellon


I'd say cautious, but we haven't heard much from the Aussie reporter and camera man yet.

Originally posted by Cito


Video some may find interesting from liveleak

Rare footage from my cousin inside Khan Younis, analyze by my brother here in Beirut. Hamas murders Gazans at a wedding, preparing to execute Fatah members in Gaza

Video Here: www.liveleak.com...

Hi Cito,

A very interesting contribution.

I really fear that it will take something horrific for the ignorant masses to wake up to what is really going on.

Kind regards, Skellon

Originally posted by Skellon
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Hello nenothtu,

As you seem to share an interest; did you notice the use of counter insertion tactics aswell?

Namely the fast ropes being anchored to the ship's radar dome, an extremely dangerous act for both the military and civilians aboard.


Kind regards, Skellon.





[edit on 8-6-2010 by Skellon]

Yup, I did. I have to wonder if they weren't trying for something even more... uh.... 'spectacular'. I wouldn't expect that all aboard would have been willing 'martyrs', but it's apparent, at least to me, that there were those there hoping to collect on the 72 virgin contract.

Looks to me like they may have been hoping to take many more with them, more than even just the Israelis. A blackhawk smacking the boat and possibly going into flames (not a given, by any means, but it does happen) would have created a crisis not worth wasting. They would have had to have sifted through the FLIR from the standoff choppers to catch the real culprits, but I bet dollars to donuts the Israeli pilots would have gotten the blame in the popular press.

Whether O'Keefe was the source of that tactic is anyone's guess, but I consider it to be likely. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that what training and tactical planning they had probably came from him, and was probably rudimentary and spur of the moment at best. I'd bet he was there in more of an advisory and direction role than anything else.

Anchoring a chopper like that is one way to bring it down (especially if that boat were to lurch and snatch at the rope - and hence the chopper), but if you're right under it, you're going with it. On the high seas, where are you going to run to?

[edit on 2010/6/8 by nenothtu]