“All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns”

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posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by star child
reply to post by Asktheanimals
 


Just when the world seems so dark, along comes a bright glowing light, a true MAN. A person with principles. What we need now are more soldiers like Ken O`Keefe. I salute him too. RESPECT.



Just to clarify, Ken O' Keefe is not a soldier. He is an enviromental and peace activist.

He never shot one round at the enemy in his short military career.

Try being an idealist in the forces, see how far you get.




posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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Sorry Skellon... I do not believe a word you say.

I have not seen one balanced statement from you on this topic yet. So experience tells me you are not a skeptic, but a denier.

You should look up the definition of each.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by thedeadtruth
 



Hi thedeadtruth,

No need for the apology friend, I care little for what your opinion of me is.

Maybe you should read more of my posts.

I have stated on this thread alone that I like to provide a counter-point when people are overwhelmingly one-sided.

If people were overwhelmingly pro-Israeli on this forum then I would be providing counter-points that support the Palestinian/Arab/Musilm side of the argument.

This is my nature.

In contrast, I have read many of your posts and seen and experienced name calling or ad hominem (which is against the T&C of this site) and alot of passionate opinion with little in the way of objective thinking.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree as this 'beef' of yours with me, is derailing every thread we find each other contributing to.

Now can we get back on topic please?


Kind regards, Skellon




[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by Flatwoods

Originally posted by smurfy
Touble is, your second last post speaks differently. You deny the ships bringing aid to the Gaza people...not Hamas, who are not that popular in Gaza itself, and who have have question marks as to who their overlords are.


The Palestinians should stop the rocket attacks against Israel and renounce terrorism. That would do more to improve the conditions of the people in Gaza than all the supply ships on the planet earth.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by Flatwoods]

It is generally aknowledged that rocket attacks, by Hamas, were miniscule in nature compared to the retaliation from Israel, plus Israel's ongoing embargo. To be sure the Hamas rockets killed people, the Israelis in their retaliation killed many more. Then you have to ask why Hamas should do these things, knowing full well that many more lives would be lost by their actions in "their" country. So far Hamas has not been ousted, but that does not legitimise Israel's stance against a mercy blockade.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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But I will take the word of Ken and any other passenger on board that ship over the commando's, Netanyahoo's or any other Israeli apoligist.

Take his word for what? he is a traitor who gives aid an comfort to our enemies. You don't have to take anyone's word just watch the videos. This was a set up and Okeefe was responsible for the deaths of those terrorists. Any other conclusion is blind liberal stupidity



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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It is generally aknowledged that rocket attacks, by Hamas, were miniscule in nature compared to the retaliation from Israel, plus Israel's ongoing embargo. To be sure the Hamas rockets killed people, the Israelis in their retaliation killed many more. Then you have to ask why Hamas should do these things, knowing full well that many more lives would be lost by their actions in "their" country. So far Hamas has not been ousted, but that does not legitimise Israel's stance against a mercy blockade.


Who cares how big the rockets are? They still kill. That's like saying it matters how big the gun you fire is. If it kills someone, it's still murder. It doesn't matter anyway. If the Palestinians would stop trying to kill Israelis and renounce terrorism, true peace could begin. Imagine what Gaza would be like if the people there decided to rebuild their country with schools and hospitals and jobs and open, peaceful trade. That sounds like a good idea to me. But it'll never happen as long as they keep trying to run the jews out of Israel.

Yes, I know there is lack of opportunity now in Gaza, but how do improve that? The people there seem to think the only way to do that is to run the Jews out of Israel.

Of course, there are other ways to improve conditions. Mainly like not trying to kill Israelis. Does this makes sense? Because then the Israelis could end the blockade, end the embargo, open up trade to Gaza, maybe even provide them with financial aid, and rebuild the country. But first the Palestinians have to stop trying to kill Israelis, which is all they seem to want to do.

Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall.

[edit on 7-6-2010 by Flatwoods]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Skellon

Originally posted by star child
reply to post by Asktheanimals
 

What we need now are more soldiers like Ken O`Keefe. I salute him too. RESPECT.

Just to clarify, Ken O' Keefe is not a soldier. He is an enviromental and peace activist.

Cheers Skellon. I don't know too many honorable soldiers who give up their citizenship so easily. It makes me think the guy is either traumatized beyond normal, weak minded, or maybe is just a big big flake.

I tend to the latter, given the excessive self-promotion. Check out this discussion on Wikipedia, a debate on whether his self-posted article should be classified as a "vanity page".

Click Here.

One more brief note -- I see these threads about Israel all the time, but honestly I don't think America cares that much about either Israel or the Palestinians. Arguing about Israel -- and American Idol -- is just our hobby. Israel is far away, and very small. We appear engaged, but we really don't care that much, on average.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by Axial Leader]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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Semper fi, Ken. Soldier, Marine, Airmen or Sailor, this is a true example of honour. Let's hope the sick bastards that are the top-eschelon of Israeli command get ejected from power soon rather than later.

If you board a ship in international waters then expect for them to defend themselves. Do I know the men fast-roping onto the deck are not here to wipe us out? Do we know their ROE? If the answer is no, then you subdue them.

The blame does not rest on the activists, nor the "commandos" (as much as I dislike the IDF); it rests on the command as usual. Soldiers don't choose when and where to fight, they simply obey orders.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by Shark VA84]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:37 PM
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The character assassination of this man is already starting to nauseate me. "I don't know him very well, but I bet he's a flake."

Yeah, that about sums it up well.

I believe a lot of what he says, to some degree. It's far more evidence then we have received from either Israel or the US media. All they do is talk their damn worthless opinions and loop 20 second video snippets over and over in the background. Utter BS.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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Looks like the new Nazis are the Israeli Government







Pro-genocide graffiti left overnight by Jewish settlers on the door to the Abu Heikel home in Hebron.


www.cpt.org...







Description : "Gas the Arabs" was sprayed on Abraham's Well, a well considered holy by Jews and Muslims alike.








English: "Gas the Arabs" painted on the gate outside a Palestinian home in Hebron by Jewish settlers. It is signed "JDL" (Jewish Defence League).


Yea and gaza is a big concentration camp. Not my words, a Cardinal's

news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:41 PM
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reply to post by smurfy
 


The same 'Goldstone Report' that concluded that Israel had been responsible for war crimes in the Gaza War 2008-2009, also concluded that Hams was responsible for war crimes with its indiscriminate firing of Kayatusha rockets into Israel.

Something our beloved media neglected to mention mostly.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by SyphonX
The character assassination of this man is already starting to nauseate me. "I don't know him very well, but I bet he's a flake. Utter BS.


You are unreal buddy.

This self-promoter O'Keefehas a right to spout off, renounce his citizenship, make any BS claim in the interest of promoting war and hate.

But somehow calling him a flake (which he obviously is, teardrop in the corner of his eye all all) -- that is character assassination?

This guy renounced his citizenship. Follow his lead if you think it was such a cool thing.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Axial Leader
One more brief note -- I see these threads about Israel all the time, but honestly I don't think America cares that much about either Israel or the Palestinians. Arguing about Israel -- and American Idol -- is just our hobby. Israel is far away, and very small. We appear engaged, but we really don't care that much, on average.



[edit on 7-6-2010 by Axial Leader]


That is very astute.

Americans, and most westerners, care only enough to gripe on a forum, or rant and rave to their spouse. Come election time, the masses start drooling again, and vote for the lesser of two evils. Nothing changes, now where is my remote control.....



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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you would think Jews would learn from history. But they keep repeating the same stuff. The politics is insane, it would almost.... I stress almost prove that the protocols of zion was right even though it was a hoax. But their actions damn near prove it regardless.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Flatwoods
I would like to add one more thing: I don't hate Arabs, or Muslims, or Palestinians, or any group based on their ethnicity. What I hate is terrorists.
What I mean by terrorist are people who bomb, kill, and maim soft targets because they don't have the strength or the guts to form a real army, one that plays by actual rules. [edit on 7-6-2010 by Flatwoods]


You forgot to add these terrorist groups in your list:
Resistance movements during World War II

Pre-20th century

Carbonari - 19th century Italian movement resisting Austrian or Bourbon rule.
Sons of Liberty - - Revolutionary patriot group that embraced Republicanism in the United States during the 1760s and 1770s and routinely engaged in acts of violent resistance against British government officials and prominent loyalist sympathizers. The Boston branch of the Sons of Liberty met under the Liberty Tree, from which they would post messages or hang and burn effigies of their enemies.
The Underground Railroad - The pre American Civil War slave escape network consisting of volunteers who were dedicated to secretly helping escaping slave reach free states or Canada.
The Polish National Government- Underground Polish supreme authority during January Uprising against Russian occupation of Poland. During 1863-1864 it was a real shadow government supported by majority of Poles, who even paid taxes for it and a significant problem for Russian secret police (Okhrana).



Pre-World War II

Irish Republican Army
Filipino guerilla units after official end of Philippine-American War (1902–1913)
Pancho Villa led a resistance movement/rebellion in Mexico in the early 20th century, as did the Zapata brothers.
Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine (1918–1921)
Forest Guerrillas (1921–1922)
Lwów Eaglets
Black Lions (1936)
Non-Cooperation Movement (1919–1939)



WWII Resistance movement
Albanian resistance movement
Austrian resistance movement (O5)
Belgian resistance movement
Bulgarian resistance movement
Burmese resistance movement
Czech Resistance movement
Chinese resistance movements
Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army
Anti-Japanese Army for the Salvation of the Country
Chinese People's National Salvation Army
Heilungkiang National Salvation Army
Jilin Self-Defence Army
Northeast Anti-Japanese National Salvation Army
Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army
Northeast People's Anti-Japanese Volunteer Army
Northeastern Loyal and Brave Army
Northeastern People's Revolutionary Army
Northeastern Volunteer Righteous & Brave Fighters
Hong Kong resistance movements
Gangjiu dadui (Hong Kong-Kowloon big army)
Dongjiang Guerrillas (East River Guerrillas, Southern China and Hong Kong organisation)
Danish resistance movement
Dutch resistance movement
Forest Brothers
French resistance movement in World War II, including the Maquis
German resistance movements
The 20 July plot
The White Rose
The Red Orchestra
The Werwolf
Greek resistance movement
Italian resistance movement
Jewish resistance movement, including Jewish partisans and Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee
Korean resistance movement
Latvian resistance movement
Lithuanian resistance during World War II
Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian (Forest Brothers, Latvian national partisans, and Lithuanian partisans (1944–1953)) resistance movements during the Soviet invasion and occupation of the Baltic countries (continued after the end of WWII).
Luxembourgish resistance movement
Norwegian resistance movement
Philippine resistance movement (Multiple, often opposing organizations, were active during the Japanese Occupation)
Polish Underground State and Polish resistance organizations, such as:
Armia Krajowa (the Home Army), Polish underground army in World War II (400 000 sworn members)
Narodowe Siły Zbrojne
Bataliony Chłopskie
Gwardia Ludowa (the Peoples' Guard) and Armia Ludowa (the Peoples' Army)
Żydowska Organizacja Bojowa (ZOB, the Jewish Fighting Organisation), Jewish resistance movement that led the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943
Zydowski Zwiazek Walki (ZZW, the Jewish Fighting Union), Jewish resistance movement that led the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in 1943
Slovak resistance movement
Soviet resistance movement of Soviet partisans and underground which had Moscow-organized and spontaneously formed cells opposing German occupation.
Thai resistance movement
Ukrainian Insurgent Army - fought the Poles, the Germans and the Soviets.
Yugoslav resistance movements:
People's Liberation Army – the partisans
Yugoslav Royal Army in the Fatherland – Chetniks
Viet Minh

en.wikipedia.org...-20th_century



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


Photos of graffiti on a wall....

Yup, "I'd buy that for a dollar"


From this dubious 'evidence' you brand a government as the New Nazis?



I see your point though, I mean its not like Israels' opponents are capable of lies or fabricating the truth to suit their end.


As a counter point;



The 'dead man' in the funeral procession at 05:44 is a hoot.


[edit on 7-6-2010 by Skellon]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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Great thread.

I don't have time to read all the posts but this is clearly merely the tip of the iceberg.

There were over 600 people on those boats, who are all well connected and able to articulate their stories.

Israel's actions were illegal, full stop.

Chosen or not chosen. Wrong move.



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Chevalerous
 




If that would be the case - you shouldn't talk then until YOU actually know what items and goods which are permitted to enter Gaza.


Concrete. Food. Medicines. Reading materials, education supplies etc. Water.

Things not allowed: Chemicals used for homemade rockets. rockets. Guns. Ammunition. Armor. Etc.

Oh, money is also welcomed.


Since the end of 2000, Arab states have transferred to the Palestinian Authority monthly financial aid of $45 million (since April 2002 this sum was increased to $55 million). The European Union (EU) transfers to the PA approximately $9 million monthly. By the end of 2001, the Palestinians had received $4 billion (the figure is now closer to $5.5 billion) since the 1993 Oslo agreements.

This is the equivalent of $1,330 per Palestinian. By comparison, the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after World War II provided $272 per European (in today's dollars)."


Most of the money is squandered away by corrupt government officials, and while Arafat was alive the money was simply put into his personal bank account. On average the vast majority of aid supplies still comes from outside sources, even though the Government receives enough money to fund the entire Palestinian operation, as they are roughly the size of a typical American county.

These funds also do not represent the hundreds of millions donated by private organization and charities.

israelipalestinian.procon.org...


You are so damn uninformed, it's not funny!


Interesting.. so, you can say as you please, imo you simply put your foot in your mouth, but what ever. But please.. by all means, refute my statements.


The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees Unrwa's list of household items that have been refused entry at various times includes light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, pasta, tea, coffee, chocolate, nuts, shampoo and conditioner.


It helps when you don't take sources out of context.

And please note.. I never said the blockade was acceptable, I don't believe it is.. I don't believe Israel should be choking Gaza or the Westbank the way it does, regardless of if it's being attacked by rocket fire. But to say that no aid is allowed into Palestine is not just ignorant, it's a complete lie.

And some stuff that they refuse to allow in, like refrigerators, make little sense, not that they would be effective given Palestines rolling blackouts. Also it is true they used to refuse wood and concrete until the beginning of 2010 -- wood and concrete are not meant to build rockets, the main idea behind Israels blockade is to make the people so miserably unhappy that they will elect someone else come next election.

news.bbc.co.uk... (your source you forgot to post)



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
Looks like the new Nazis are the Israeli Government







Pro-genocide graffiti left overnight by Jewish settlers on the door to the Abu Heikel home in Hebron.


www.cpt.org...







Description : "Gas the Arabs" was sprayed on Abraham's Well, a well considered holy by Jews and Muslims alike.








English: "Gas the Arabs" painted on the gate outside a Palestinian home in Hebron by Jewish settlers. It is signed "JDL" (Jewish Defence League).


Interesting. Who do you suppose the intended audience was? It's in english. Is that an official language in Israel? Once you figure out who the intended audience was, you get closer to the purpose it was intended to serve, which in turn will lead you to the actual (as opposed to attributed) author(s).

This has WHAT to do with O'Keefe? are you saying he wrote it, or are you saying the commonality is that both are propaganda attempts?

[edit on 2010/6/7 by nenothtu]



posted on Jun, 7 2010 @ 09:20 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Well they were all written by the same person .. so probably an idiot that isn't even from Israel (English is not the official language) .. or hell, it actually could have been the photographer. What are the odds a single photographer happens upon the writings of one person at several locations to take a picture of them?


And Palestinians are not Arab. Only people from Arabia are Arabs.. Palestinians are Semites.





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