I've heard that studies show that 4 hours a day is all you really get out of human productivity anyway. Yes you can throw humans on a zombie assembly line but that only works if their job is absolutely routine and repetitive. Most people don't work in factories though. And truth be known, most don't want to anyway as a result of the inhuman repetition of a factory line.

The 40 hour work week is a outdated industrial revolution concept.

The time for Free Energy has not only arrived but has become a must if our species is to survive. Just look at the Gulf of Mexico right now if you disagree.

As to taxation, this might work if we had a proper blend of democracy mixed with socialism. The government would have to provide basic essentials free of cost such as education, healthcare, etc.

All wages would have to be zeroed out so that greed could be kept at bay. Russia has survived with something akin to this in their legal and medical professions and is still going today as we speak. When this is done you weed out the greedy people just looking to get rich where as legal, medical jobs just become a means to that end. And on the other hand you would attract the people who truly wish to protect/heal people to boot. Russian doctors and lawyers make a middle class wage and their economy still exists. In the past a factory worker made even more than doctors and lawyers did. Yet Russia still exists.

Political lobbying would need to be outlawed with stiff sentences to any violators being employed.

A campaign budget would need to be supplied at government expense to all candidates with each one given equal air time on local stations that would graduate to statewide channel coverage and then national if need be.

Incumbent terms would be limited to just two terms in order to eliminate the career politician phenomena and all of the corruption that can entail.


Sadly, the current society is so entrenched in the USA (at least), that only a complete catastrophe could level the playing field so that such higher ideas of human society could be implemented.

The critics that I see on this thread are those who probably have never known any different and are incapable of thinking out of their current paradigm to begin with which is another sad thing to watch and truly depressing as well.







[edit on 6-6-2010 by warequalsmurder]

There are so many replies to this thread I am doing a multiple reply post here

Originally posted by switching yard

Humankind are slaving when there must be a simpler way to live in peace, work in peace and enjoy life.

I have often thought that the 40-hour work week is a form of tyranny. It's truly amazing to me that society has taken away its own freedoms and respect.

What happens if the current system is allowed to continue switching yard?

What will the world look like for your children?

I picture Hell.

I'll give my last dying breath resisting Hell on earth.

Originally posted by poet1b

When you look at the increases in productivity, and that one the husband working fifty years ago could support his family, the idea of both parents working 20 hours to support a family of four or five is completely realistic.

When you add in that we are supposed to support all the families around the globe having four and five kids each, then that is the problem.

If we worked fewer hours sitting in cubicles, or in rooms running machines, and had more time to live healthy lives, our medical costs wouldn't be so high.

Mainly we are paying for cures that are more problem than cure.

You are right poet1b.

At one time Americans were able to live on one income. What happened that we now must have two incomes?

It is not possible to support the worlds population under the current system. Something will have to change.

And yes it seems as if America spends half of it's time creating a problem and then the other 1/2 comming up with the cure.

Originally posted by serbsta

It really doesn't work like that and it wouldn't work like that. The government can't just print out an infinite amount of money and do whatever it wants... shifting local/state government functions to the private sector would be a fail of epic proportions. Let's take street lighting as an example:

How many private companies will you have running the street lighting?

Will this be charged on a 'per household' basis?

It wouldn't be a profitable business because it wouldn't work, so where is the incentive for the private sector to provide street lights? There is none.

Solar power street lights serbsta and then no one has to bear the cost of lighting the street.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent

it's just we are a enslaved species and most of us just simply are too stupid to rebell.

Yes too stupid and/or afraid of change.

Originally posted by Gorman91

Sorry dude, but I chose a career I love. It's 24 hours a day of work. Even my dreams are work and ideas.

You can't do it.

Though the other 2 are great and I want you to go with it.

I'm not really sure why you oppose the 20 hr work week Gorman91.

You would stand to benifit becuase you would be amoung the few that would work harder and recieve more rewards for your efforts.

Originally posted by gaurdian2012

this is the kind of change we need.

"viva la revolution"

Yes gaurdian2012 we need revolutionary change, not bandaids on a completely disfunctional system.

Originally posted by pjslug

... we just need to make more efficient solar collectors.

The sun radiates uniformly in all directions ... We get the astonishingly huge amount of 400 trillion trillion watts.

In one second, our sun produces enough energy for almost 500,000 years of the current needs of our so-called civilization.

Amazing

Thanks for sharing pjslug

They can't make money off of the sun though. They really just don't want to give up control, that's how I see it.

Originally posted by D377MC

Regarding the subject : having read the first three pages of this thread it is obvious that the biggest obstacle to moving in the direction suggested is ourselves.

The main problem, blatantly obvious from some of the comments, is our brainwashed, programmed state which is a major impediment to finding solutions via lateral thinking.

Yes I agree D377MC

We are our own worst enemies.

Originally posted by D377MC

Freedom is a direct consequence of truth. Truth empowers us and indeed if the mind is free then 'freedom' is a natural consequence.

They can't handle the truth.

Originally posted by Jerry_Teps
0 Taxs =

0 Police officers.
0 Roads.
0 Government funded hospitals.
0 Military defences.
0 Government services.

We pay taxes for a reason, your tax money comes back to you in lots of different ways. Taxes pay for all government services you rely on.

Nonsense Jerry_Teps

This is protectionist fear mongering on your part.

Government services will not disappear just becuase tax collection ceases. We still need these services and people will still want to do them because they enjoy doing them. They will still get paid by the government by the way and will have the opportunity to earn more based upon thier performance.

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Page 3 replies complete - Umm this may take a while to reply to all posters - Please be patient as I will attempt to reply to everyone that has something worthwhile to say.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

nice idea...

I would also go with Fed Reserve education as a means for a No Taxation campaign..

Once the Masses realize that all money is debt.. when they pay there bills there will be no money, that there never is/was money created for the interest and that there signature is the key to this mess of debt based cash..

we can ditch it all together & its henchmen the IRS..

Google Video Link

You cannot have government without paying for it, either in the form of taxes, or in some other way. This includes printing the money. When you print new money, you steal from everyone else through inflation. The end effect will be the same as taxes - people will pay for it.
Nothing is free.

This is actually the root of our problems - when you print new money yourself, it is considered a crime and you go to jail. But banks are free to create new money, even collect interest from them, and nobody is prosecuting them. They are stealing from us right now as I write this. WAKE UP!

Begin Page 4 replies

Originally posted by D377MC

Originally posted by Jerry_Teps
0 Taxs =

0 Police officers.
0 Roads.
0 Government funded hospitals.
0 Military defences.
0 Government services.

We pay taxes for a reason, your tax money comes back to you in lots of different ways. Taxes pay for all government services you rely on.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Jerry_Teps]

Your tax money does not come back to you. We are talking about taxing labor here, and when you file your 1040, if you do, not a cent goes to 'services' as you seem to believe.

You pay for 'services', whether you want them or not, through a multitude of other taxes. You buy gasoline, cigarettes, go for a few drinks on weekends? Great, you have paid your share....via indirect taxation.

D377MC

A little tax here, a little tax there. A penny here, a penny there.

When you really begin to understand it all it's quite insideous what they have done to us.

Grocery tax, Gas tax, Cell phone tax, 911 service tax, county tax, city tax, permits and fees, fines, state tax, etc, etc, etc ...

Originally posted by joechip

i certainly do not mock you.

thanks for your part in the push toward freedom!

Viva la revolution Joe, viva la revolution.

Originally posted by psychederic

"20 Hour work week" : what about doing the work with robot and basic or strong IA ? ... ... ...

All work could be done without human.

They resist robotics and automation psychederic because it is a threat to thier 40 hour work week.

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo

solution is to get rid of money. money is man made...we lived before it we can live without it.

I'm not that radical Silicis n Volvo

We still need money to reward effort.

Originally posted by soul57ld

Though the idea of a 20 hour working week seems to come from the right place, I would suggest the true answer is doing what we want to do to the benefit of all.

If one actually LIKED what one did for a living, a 40 hour(or more) working week would be something we insist on rather than something we settle for.

Ideally we would want to do the work that fits in with our talents, interests and passions-quantifying and standardising working hours would then become unnecessary.

Working would be more enjoyable and benificial for all if we all did what we had a passion for soul57ld, instead of doing what we had to to survive.

Originally posted by Ram

Things that will happened...

You will begin to remove the pavement... And make gardens.

And people who is afraid they will have nothing to do - You don't understand the Difference between freedom and what we have today.

You will use men and woman who can operate bulldozers to get down to the clean soil underneath the asphalt... You will work for freedom - and it will be achieved.

And your souls will be restored. And your families.

And Earth. It is with goodwill.

Think it.

A resotation to sanity Ram

A return to nature is neccessary, but we need not give up civilization to do it.

Originally posted by Fangula

... how about we find a way to completely rid of a monetary system?

I don't think a complete elimination of the monetary system is the answer Fangula. We are not ready for that. One step at a time.

Originally posted by psychederic

Most people in your vision will do nothing "productive" in their life : most people ( of the new generation ) would play games all the time : wtf !

How is that any different than what we have today?

Originally posted by psychederic

My solution is "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." : you cannot change people , so change yourself : build your own autonomous system : and share your ideas.

I agree. As long as you continue to play thier game nothing will change.

Originally posted by -PLB-

The OP suggests that the government should be able to print money if they need it.

Do you really trust the government with that?

Don't you think they will just print so much money that we get hyper inflation?

We don't have hyper-inflation yet, so the experiment is successful so far -PLB-

Originally posted by Maslo

Printing the money for government instead of taxation is actually not bad. It would lead to inflation, but there is an inflation anyway in current broken money system, so this could be somehow plausible.

Inflation is just an idea, much like money and taxation are an idea. Maslo.

Inflation just comes from insecurity of not having.

As long as there is enough there wil be no inflation.

Originally posted by Power_Semi

The idea of people working less for more has been suggested before have a look at:

Douglas Social Credit

The idea is basically that everyone gets an allowance from the government that gives you enough to survive.

You then have the choice of how much you want to work, if at all, to give you more money.

The supply of money is carefully controlled so that you don't end up with problems like we have now, tax etc is different.

THe idea of an allowance from the government Power_Semi is intriging. Most will squander it and it will naturally end up be redistributed into the hands of those who want more. As long as the allowance continues and the basics are provided there is no problem. If the allowance stops there will be issues.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders

There would be nothing wrong with changing over to alternative energy sources, no taxes, or having more free time, but people are not ready to accept reality.They have gotten too used to living like kings and do not want to put any real effort into living their lives.

chiponbothshoulders they don't have to give up anything.

It is not possible to go backwards now.

Technology will improve everyones life and make life better and easier.

A return to a world without clean water and no electricity is madness.

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[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Partial page 4 replies continued

Originally posted by Power_Semi

Social Credit philosophy is best summed by Douglas when he said:

"Systems were made for men, and not men for systems, and the interest of man which is self-development, is above all systems, whether theological, political or economic."

Social credits really don't sound like a bad idea. We already do this it's called taxation and wealth redistribution.

The problem people seem to have with it is taxation. If we eliminate taxation there should be no issues. Afterall who wants to drive down the street in thier brand new Mercedes SLS AMG and be surrounded by beggers, hungy children and people in wheelchairs? This only leads to gangsters hiding on rooftops with sniper rifles trying to get a bead on the driver.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders

The current arrangement could be visualized as a funnel,into which you throw the very thing that keeps you alive,for the benefit of the few,while believing you are doing so for your own benefit.

What is happening right now is akin to a man trying to swim up a waterfall after he has already gone over the edge.

End page 4 replies

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by babybunnies

Working less and making more ... will never, ever happen.

Free energy is a pipe dream

No taxes is also a pipe dream.

The revolution is over boys.

Fire up your gas guzzlers and get back to work so you can pay yer taxes.

BabyBunnies has defeated us.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by loneranger26

you cannot eliminate taxes ... there has to be taxes

Why?

The government can provide more services to the citizens if it doesn't have to bother with taxes. They can just create money.

Seriously why do you need taxes?

It's all based upon a perception of reality anyways. The new reality is you don't need taxes. That is scarcity thinking. Abundance thinking would recognize this as reality.

... get yourself an education and land a solid nice and easy job with good pay, or raise through the ranks of a company and end up in management or something.

You've never worked in corporate America obviously.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

20 hour work week? Companies will get backed up with work and lose customers. No taxes? Have fun driving on dirt roads and paying your own dental, medical, health insurance. Free Energy? There goes millions of jobs that are going to be lost. Dumb post. Dumb people.