(Solution) Free Energy + 20 Hr Work Wk + Zero Taxes = Freedom

Oh no you miss my point, we need that stuff. What we don't need is to have to pay for it.

If you don't pay for it no one will have any incentive to produce it, then you won't have what you need or there at least won't be enough of it to go around.

Let's see hasn't this been tried before by communist states, yeah that was a real success.

Originally posted by abecedarian

Is it necessary to have two, simultaneous threads about primarily the same topic?

One was started to expose the 40 hour paridigm that has taken a hold of the reality of the masses and this one is an offshoot on that theme that hopefully serves to illuminate the conspiracy to make sure that the vision doesn't happen.

I didn't see much point in responding to it, but I did reply to someone else just a moment ago.

Considering taking care of my family requires 100% of my time, spending 1/4-1/3 of that time earning money to buy food, providing other sustenance, shelter and communications for them... that isn't asking very much from me and is actually a little like taking the easy way out when compared to a purely communal living standard.

Originally posted by Freedom or Death
I answered your post here and you have not yet replied to it.....

[edit on 6/5/2010 by abecedarian]

Originally posted by slane69

Oh no you miss my point, we need that stuff. What we don't need is to have to pay for it.

If you don't pay for it no one will have any incentive to produce it, then you won't have what you need or there at least won't be enough of it to go around.

That's scarcity thinking.

We have more than enough.

A reduction in hours in not an elimination of the system.

People will still get paid under a 20 hour system and there will be rewards for increaed productivity.

Increased effort = increased pay.

The only thing that will be a constant would be government maintained benifits. If someone wanted to improve upon thier basic government maintained benifits they could choose to work harder and goto a private provider for the same benifits.

What it really comes down too is greed and an unwillingness to share the fruits of ones labor with others.

So that being said let's either eliminate all government and go head to head viking style and kill each other, the weak and elderly or STFU cause we gonna kill the rich, privlidged and powerful.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

If you don't pay for it no one will have any incentive to produce it, then you won't have what you need or there at least won't be enough of it to go around.

That's scarcity thinking.

We have more than enough.

A reduction in hours in not an elimination of the system.

People will still get paid under a 20 hour system and there will be rewards for increaed productivity.

Increased effort = increased pay.



[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Although I do agree that there is a lot of greed in our Capitalistic society, and I do believe the work week should be shorter, I wouldn't put the number at 20. I really doubt twenty hours a week is realistic. Why do you think that could work?

The truth is, scarcity does exist. It requires educated people to come up with several products and solutions in our society, and several skilled labourers to do a large amount of specialized work as well. These people's abilities are scarce. Not everyone can develop them or has the resources to develop them. Everybody has different talents. We also have limited natural resources.

The 20 hour work week though is unrealistic. How would you suggest we cut this down? Automated production? Someone has to take care of the large amount of machines then. Someone also has to manufacture them. At the same time, the demand for these machine makers/maintainers will rise, so will their wages, along with the hours they need to work.

I just don't see it working. Labour is in demand, and to double everyones wages just won't happen if we keep the economy in equilibrium. You just can't get enough work done in 4 hours a day!





[edit on 113030p://666 by For(Home)Country]

Originally posted by indigothefish

i'd like to add no. 4

4. minimal self-sufficiency, or equal knowledge of

I agree education would be benificial in the new society.

The basics of survival, history, mythology, art, music, communication, physical fitness, nutrition, science, math, philosophy and language would be benificial to the citizens and society as a whole.


[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

So you would have people sitting around, learning everything, and doing almost nothing?

Planting the seeds of discord, are you?

reply to post by Freedom or Death


Sounds nice.

What if you want to work more?

Not everyone can work 20 hours, but I think most people could. If a 20 hour work week could sustain a single person, then there could be much better employment rates.

Originally posted by abecedarian

So you would have people sitting around, learning everything, and doing almost nothing?

I fail to see your point.

Were you put on earth to be a prisoner?

As for me give me freedom or give me death.

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Originally posted by Freedom or Death
I fail to see your point.

Were you put on earth to be a prisoner?

[edit on 5-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

Nope. I work and provide well for my family. I spend my free time perusing sites like ATS and various other news sites. I edify myself and others with knowledge and philosophy.

Thank you for asking though... and thank you for being so concerned that I'm not spending enough time learning and teaching my family to be responsible towards ourselves. My parents, and their parents (ad infinitum) got by with far less free time than I have so I feel I'm doing particularly well as I have more than they had, both free time and possessions..

[edit on 6/5/2010 by abecedarian]

Were you put on earth to be a prisoner?

A slight aside from the topic thread but we are all prisoners with some choice in which prison(s) we exist within.

I have to agree with a previous poster on the scarcity question it does exist, to think it doesn't isn't realistic. If you want to design a better system, the idea of scarcity and allocation of that scarcity needs to be dealt with. Capitalism isn't great and it has major problems but it is the best system of dealing with scarcity and allocating resources. It does so by appealing to one of our less than ethical basic human drives, greed. Greed is used to make the system run, yes there are serious problems with this but its advantage is that it deals with it, unlike other systems which pretend greed don't exist it and fall flat.

As for me give me freedom or give me death.

Do you believe you have freedom at this moment? Off the top of my head you are a prisoner to your body, your perceptions, and your experience. Guess death is the only option,... oh but wait you are also a prisoner to the fear of death (as all humans are to some extent if we are completely honest with ourselves).

Originally posted by slane69

Were you put on earth to be a prisoner?

... we are all prisoners with some choice in which prison(s) we exist within.

I have to agree with a previous poster on the scarcity question it does exist, to think it doesn't isn't realistic.

I have designed a better system.

Socialist government provided basic benifits for all.

Basic employment and education for all.

Want more?

Work more, work smarter and educate your own.

Government takes none of your labor.

It's the perfect solution.


[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

wonderful idea. i do think, however, #1. free energy could do even more to free the human race from economic slavery. 20 hours? i say 0 hours. we have the technology, (almost) let's leave the whole business behind of working for a living. automation, baby. robotics! a total paradigm shift! imagine there's no money. no need for it. then to the stars!

Originally posted by joechip

20 hours? i say 0 hours. we have the technology

You mock me joe.

Working Zero hours a week is an imposibility, it will never happen.

Man must work, at least some.

I think it would not be good to not work at all.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

We should put '___' in the drinking water instead of fluoride.

Originally posted by avatar01
We should put '___' in the drinking water instead of fluoride.

Why?

People drinking the water are already hallucinating well enough.

Socialist government provided basic benifits for all.

Basic employment and education for all.

Want more?

Work more, work smarter and educate your own.

Government takes none of your labor.

It's the perfect solution.

I must be missing something, I am trying to understand. If the government takes none of your labor, who pays for the government provided basic benefits and education? Food, clothing, housing, human capital i.e. teachers, are all "scarce" resources. If the government wants to provide these to everyone it would either have to 1) produce them 2) or buy them from the market. Both of these options require resources, also called taxes, without taking any labor there would be no taxes to support these actions and the system would collapse.

Look around this same scenario is playing out in Europe right now, not enough taxes to support government largesse. Ever heard of a country called Greece?

Perfect,... not quite, you may want to hit the drawing board again and come up with something else. Sorry to burst the bubble.

Originally posted by Freedom or Death

Originally posted by joechip

20 hours? i say 0 hours. we have the technology

You mock me joe.

Working Zero hours a week is an imposibility, it will never happen.

Man must work, at least some.

I think it would not be good to not work at all.

[edit on 6-6-2010 by Freedom or Death]

So you can admit that 1/4 of a week is enough?
C'mon... 7 days x 24 hours = 168 hours... 40 hours is just shy of 1/4 of a week. That's not even 2 1/2 full days out of 7. You'd have to work 42 hours a week just to work 1/4 of a week.

[edit on 6/6/2010 by abecedarian]

Hey, i like your idea. Free energy for everyone! That will definitely solve a lot of the problems on earth here today, no doubt about it. We already possess the technology. If this technology was run on free energy instead of fossil fuels, then people can rest easy. We wouldn't have to pay inflated prices for "diminishing sources of expendable energy". Once the machinery takes care of most of the manual labor, we can sit down and relax to form a sound government. There's already free energy. We just need to publicize it. However, the ones that do often get silenced...