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posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by Anti-Evil
 


how does this fit into 'GENERAL CONSPIRACIES'?
This is merely a war-mongering quote from an upset Christian fanatic.
...seems rather non-conspiratory to me




posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Originally posted by BlackOps719


And as someone else pointed out, this prayer is probably something they have been doing at these games for 50 years or more. Some things people hold sacred and it doesn't pay to try and tell people what they can and can't do in their own community.


Political correctness is a disease.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by BlackOps719]


Americans owned slaves for more than 50 years, and prevented blacks from voting for even longer. Did it "pay" to change that tradition?

Americans also allowed men to beat their wives for longer than 50 years. I can tell you, from someone that would have been on the other side of the "beating rod", I think changing that tradition has "paid" and then some.

Just because something is tradition doesn't mean it's any more correct or worthwhile.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by VneZonyDostupa]


You did not just do this...did you? i cant believe you went there. god would you people GROW UP. quit trrowing out the damn race and slavery card every time someone does or says something that you dont agree with!

People are becoming IMMUNE to it.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Opinions are like sphincter holes: they stink & everybody has one.. why some people drop-trou, bend over, and proudly display their opinion to strangers is beyond me...

Some of us don't care about anyones religious opinion and find it creepy when people around us act like robots talking to themselves in unison... if that's your thing to do on Sunday morning while I'm recovering from a hangover, fantastic, really, enjoy life and have at it... you're not bothering me, or trying to recruit me... so I don't care. Nor do I go out of my way in public to unload my opinions on strangers who might find it offensive or uncomfortable..

You religious folk know we exist, in numbers, and know we appreciate the separation of church & state thing.. can't we just agree football games are for football?.. people in attendance who desire.. can pray, or swing a dead chicken over their head for all I care.. be private, exclude uninterested strangers and we're good.

If this is real, "Jody McLeod" was well aware his "religion" drama would be a controversial little attention grabber, maybe gain good graces with the local flock commander.. but overt acts like this IMO resemble "gorilla advertising", it generates mind space and discussion in the name of the lord.. while rallying the flock... admittedly, it's effective lol



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:42 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu


What 'veiled threat'? I think I was pretty clear about not getting too rowdy over insignificant stuff like passing out pamphlets. Maybe you're just overly sensitive?


I was referring to your mention of a son who might get "rowdy" toward me.


I apologize for the mistake in gender, ma'am. It's kinda hard to see you clearly through this 'puter screen.


No worries, I was just having some fun with you. Though, make the mistake again, and we'll see. What is that oft quoted line about a woman scorned?



So I'm to be left out of the pamphleteering? That's not very inclusive , progressive, or socialistic of you.


Oh, I'd be more than happy to send you some literature, though I have the feeling you don't read Russian, so I'm not sure what good a "Liberalno-Dyemokraticheskaya Partiya Rossii" pamphlet will do for you.



I feel SO alone... but I'll pray for you all the same.


Lovely! I'll be sure to return the favor by telling one child about the wonders of science for you. Heopfully, that child will go on to even the world out a bit.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Oh I clearly read your posts, and it was easy to predict that by calling you out on your disingenuous arguments, that you couldn't resist revealing your stance, and it isn't at all about religious conviction, nor is it about freedom. You want to suppress and oppress others, and just like all other tyrants, you'll use whatever propaganda you can use. Just read your own words, and by the way, what kind of person doesn't even bother to read his own posts? You claim you said nothing about praying yourself, but ask if you can lead others in a prayer to Satan, as if they are mutually exclusive. Then you actually begin lecturing me about Satanism, hammering away at the assertion that you don't pound others with your religion. If I were writing this by hand, my handwriting would be scribbled so much I am laughing so hard. Weren't you the guy that insinuated atheist were logical?

You've been so respectful with your Satanists values I can certainly understand your hurt feelings. You act so hurt and misunderstood, and actually believe you haven't been ranting away with your own political beliefs, and the difference between you and I is that I insist you have every right to do so in public if you choose, and you insist I don't, and amazingly point to the First Amendment to support your assertions. Let's be honest about this, you are not fighting for any freedom, you are fighting to stop other people.

You continue with your disingenuousness and no matter how long and how hard I insist you don't have to ask permission to do something that is a right, you pretend I haven't said this, but clearly, based on the rest of your reply, you didn't even bother to read the full post I made before getting all excited and replying which is why first you accuse me of not reading your posts and then you back pedal as you finally realize I have and instead of editing yourself, you publicly reveal yourself and say; "Oh, so you did read my post." Aren't you the guy who said atheist are logical?

You have clearly not read my posts or I wouldn't have to explain to you now that I strongly advocate abolishing the tax drain known as public schools so you don't have to live in utter panic that your children will be taught Christian values. Send your kids to a private school of your choice or home school them, but don't expect other people to kick in tax dollars for the education of your children, and the same goes for all Christians too! Get it? I doubt it!

You pretend like you know you don't need to ask permission then you turn around and ask for my approval of whether you can ask questions about atheists and all the while pretending I am the one who is confused. Let me clear this up for you one last time. I say we do away with the public school system all together, and then this pointless debate is moot. Of course, you being a suppressive and all, I doubt you would be willing to agree that the failed public school system should be scrapped, because this system has generated countless intrusive laws, that I have no doubt suit your fancy.


[edit on 26-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by tauempire
You did not just do this...did you? i cant believe you went there. god would you people GROW UP. quit trrowing out the damn race and slavery card every time someone does or says something that you dont agree with!

People are becoming IMMUNE to it.


Then stop using "It is how it has been for 50 years" sorry ass tradition excuse for things. Either it works for this AND SLAVERY or not at all.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:11 AM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 





Opinions are like sphincter holes: they stink & everybody has one.. why some people drop-trou, bend over, and proudly display their opinion to strangers is beyond me...


As if that is not what you are doing right now. You anti freedom people are a real piece of work.




Some of us don't care about anyones religious opinion and find it creepy when people around us act like robots talking to themselves in unison... if that's your thing to do on Sunday morning while I'm recovering from a hangover, fantastic, really, enjoy life and have at it... you're not bothering me, or trying to recruit me... so I don't care. Nor do I go out of my way in public to unload my opinions on strangers who might find it offensive or uncomfortable..


Like you care about what makes others uncomfortable. Like you haven't gone out of your way to unload here.




You religious folk know we exist, in numbers, and know we appreciate the separation of church & state thing.. can't we just agree football games are for football?.. people in attendance who desire.. can pray, or swing a dead chicken over their head for all I care.. be private, exclude uninterested strangers and we're good.


Which is precisely why the Founders established first a republic to protect any minority from a majority, and then for good measure wrote the Bill of Rights, of which has the Establishment Clause, which is what you so lazily mean by that "separation of church and state thing", which you no doubt are ignorant of who said this, and that this phrase is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.




If this is real, "Jody McLeod" was well aware his "religion" drama would be a controversial little attention grabber, maybe gain good graces with the local flock commander.. but overt acts like this IMO resemble "gorilla advertising", it generates mind space and discussion in the name of the lord.. while rallying the flock... admittedly, it's effective lol


And here you are with your own guerrilla advertising, attempting to rally the anti-freedom troops and suppress those you don't like with that whole "separation of church and state thing" Think you've been nearly as effective?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


Oh I clearly read your posts, and it was easy to predict that by calling you out on your disingenuous arguments, that you couldn't resist revealing your stance, and it isn't at all about religious conviction, nor is it about freedom. You want to suppress and oppress others, and just like all other tyrants, you'll use whatever propaganda you can use.


Then you do not understand English? There is a reason you decided to reply like this without any of my quotes. This way you feel like you can just say whatever you like about me and it will magically be true.

What did you trick me into revealing by basically demonstrating you did not understand what I wrote? Please show me what I showed you.

When did I reveal my true colors as a tyrant? I simple asked if my friends and I can enjoy the same freedom AS YOU. How is that tyrannical?


Just read your own words, and by the way, what kind of person doesn't even bother to read his own posts?


Show me which words you want me to look at again? Nothing I like better than a Christian who has to make stuff up to prove the righteousness of their god.



You claim you said nothing about praying yourself, but ask if you can lead others in a prayer to Satan, as if they are mutually exclusive.


They are mutually exclusive. How do you not understand that? I can pray all day at home by myself. When you decide to go to a public school and make everyone there listen to your prayer, that is quite different.


Then you actually begin lecturing me about Satanism, hammering away at the assertion that you don't pound others with your religion.


Shoe me this lecture. QUOTE ME.


If I were writing this by hand, my handwriting would be scribbled so much I am laughing so hard. Weren't you the guy that insinuated atheist were logical?


Nope. I am the guy that asked another poster what things had been put forth IN THIS THREAD BY ATHEISTS THAT WAS DUMB OR ILLOGICAL. Can you read English at all???????


You've so respectful with your Satanists values I can certainly understand your hurt feelings.


Now my feelings are hurt? Are you psychic? You suck at it if so.


You act so hurt and misunderstood, and actually believe you haven't been ranting away with your own political beliefs, and the difference between you and I is that I insist you have every right to do so in public if you choose, and you insist I don't, and amazingly point to the First Amendment to support your assertions.


LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, are you sick in the head? Maybe a little damaged? I am not just trying to be a jerk here but something is obviously wrong with your ability to read and comprehend. When did I mention the first amendment? WHEN DID I EVER MENTION THAT AT ALL???????????

When do I come across as hurt or misunderstood? When did I tell you what you can and can not do? I simply asked for the right to do the same. I never told you could not. I asked if it would be ok for me to follow suit. Apparently not.

LOOK, IF YOU ARE GOING TO JUST MAKE CRAP UP TO RESPOND TO, TAKE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE.


Let's be honest about this, you are not fighting for any freedom, you are fighting to stop other people.


Let's really be honest here. I never claimed to be fighting for any freedom but what it comes down to is the freedom to choose when and where to tell my children what to think about condoms and homosexuality. You do not have the right to usurp my position as parent to instill religious or sexual values in my children.

Tell you what. I am going to just stop right here. You are either responding to other people's posts and using me to do it or you are suffering severe brain damage. If you can quote me saying ALL THE THINGS YOU JUST CLAIMED I DID, then we can continue. Fair enough? I am not making up things and pretending it is what you said. I have not put any words in your mouth. Why do you feel the need to do it with me? Is it the only way you can be right? Is that what Jesus would do? Just make up crap? How about that first amendment thingy? Get back to me with some quotes or move along because I refuse to sit here and keep typing "That is not what I said - quote me" over and over and over and over again.

Think you can have an HONEST discussion or would that be too much to ask when discussing your Christian values?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You pretend like you know you don't need to ask permission then you turn around and ask for my approval of whether you can ask questions about atheists and all the while pretending I am the one who is confused.


LMAO!!! Seriously, a star for this post? Here is another shining example of either you making crap up or not understanding basic English at all. Not one word of the above makes sense or applies to anything I have posted. Seriously, if you are going to tell me what I said, quote me and then tell me how you think it says that. See if you can do that and still slip in all of these completely fallacious statements about what I have and have not said. Try making sense too. I hope we can have a productive and honest discussion about your god but if you are not willing to be honest, I understand.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by VneZonyDostupa

Oh, I'd be more than happy to send you some literature, though I have the feeling you don't read Russian, so I'm not sure what good a "Liberalno-Dyemokraticheskaya Partiya Rossii" pamphlet will do for you.




Actually, I can read cyrillic, but you're correct, not actual Russian beyond just a few words. Once upon a time I had to rely on maps in cyrillc characters (but the local language) to get where I needed to be. You probably don't really want to know any more about that, though.




Lovely! I'll be sure to return the favor by telling one child about the wonders of science for you. Heopfully, that child will go on to even the world out a bit.


That'll make the world even MORE lopsided, since I'm constantly telling kids about science, when they ask, usually physics and/or astronomy. For some reason, kids around here can't get enough of knowledge, and it keeps me from having to waste my university education entirely.

I've yet to find a reason that science and religion are mutually exclusive, although a number of uniformed folks try to convince me they are. So far, none have been able to produce a logically coherent argument for that viewpoint. Therefore, I also tell the kids about religions if they ask. I know a good bit about several different ones, borne of a quest for knowledge, meaning, and just plain answers in my mis-spent youth.

So then, to truly even things out, you'll have to inform them in both, and allow them to make their own decisions in the matter.

[edit on 2010/5/26 by nenothtu]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You have not written a single thing that merits being quoted. You finally at the end of your last reply get honest and admit that you haven't been fighting for any freedom and assert it so smugly and proudly as if you have somehow won a debate, and only sycophants would be impressed with your assertions. Of course you are not fighting for freedom, you are a suppressive, and this is what your agenda is, to suppress others. At least you're getting honest about it. You have protested and sputtered and muttered that I am somehow misrepresenting your words, but you are continually doing precisely what I am claiming you are doing, which is attacking others of whom you don't agree with, and the difference between your attacks and mine, is that I am not fighting for "Christian values", just freedom, but you...well, as you admit, it isn't freedom you care about, just suppressing those "Christians" you dislike. That sort of active campaign of suppression merits challenge, even if your words don't merit repeating.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


You have not written a single thing that merits being quoted.


Somehow I managed to write plenty that was merited false responses. Why would you take so much time to write so much in response to some of so little significance to you?

Face it, you are wrong or a liar and cannot quote me saying any of what you said BECAUSE I DID NOT SAY SUCH THINGS.

It is quite simple. You can make excuses all you like about it not being important to you but the frequency and length of your replies belies that. Sad, really.


You finally at the end of your last reply get honest and admit that you haven't been fighting for any freedom and assert it so smugly and proudly as if you have somehow won a debate, and only sycophants would be impressed with your assertions. Of course you are not fighting for freedom, you are a suppressive, and this is what your agenda is, to suppress others. At least you're getting honest about it. You have protested and sputtered and muttered that I am somehow misrepresenting your words, but you are continually doing precisely what I am claiming you are doing, which is attacking others of whom you don't agree with, and the difference between your attacks and mine, is that I am not fighting for "Christian values", just freedom, but you...well, as you admit, it isn't freedom you care about, just suppressing those "Christians" you dislike. That sort of active campaign of suppression merits challenge, even if your words don't merit repeating.



So basically, you are a liar for Jesus? You make up things to defend Christianity? You think that by making up things I said and then telling me that the truth is not important enough to quote, Jesus will be honored? Really? I am looking through the bible and I am having a hard time finding where anyone said you should lie in the name of your god.

You just completely made up pretty much everything in your last response to me and this is about your Christianity? Are you for real?

Lie and obfuscate all you like. If that is what you consider and honest discussion, then have it with someone else.

I would have been inclined to even believe you were not quoting me because I did not write anything important if it were not for your essays in response to me on this page. Too bad they are full of lies.

Enjoy telling lies for Jesus. If you ever feel like being honest and responding to words actually written down, get back to me. Still looking for that first amendment statement.
I guess admitting you were wrong about something is not the Christian thing to do either?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:39 AM
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I have to get into this argument. JPZ is getting the component that so many are not getting.

Let me put it out there and everyone let me know your position on this.



Now, the tenet of seperation of church and state was NEVER in the Constitution, it is based on a SCOTUS decision. Let us just say this is true for arguments sake.

Here is the deal folks, with government pervading every aspect of society, let us use the schools as a base and go from there.

The government licenses or enacts tax laws that a Church has to petition to get not for profit status. So, in essence they are being licensed by the state so to speak.

Well hell, with this the government could say that any non profit entity would have to follow the government doctrine.

The roads are supplied by the state so no freedom of religion there.

The businesses are licensed by the state so no freedom of religion there.

The houses are permitted and zoned so no freedom of religion there.

You are certified and given a Socialist Security number, a citizen, which basically is the foundation of government, so even yourself have to follow the tenet that the government espouses.

Wake the hell up and smell the tyranny and hypocrisy.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by sirnex
 


sirnex,

An adult covers his ears when he wishes not to hear. An adult covers his eyes when he wishes not to see.

This way the person takes responsibility for what they receive.



This country was not founded on "cover your ears if you don't like it".

Christians need to stop being loud mouth cry babies because they're religion is not *law* in this country, if they don't like it they can go form their own country.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 


I never said that your oppressive tyranny didn't have any significance, only that as far as tyrants go, you are one that writes anything worth repeating. You claim you did not say what? That you aren't for freedom? That you pretend creating fallacious hypothetical situations isn't what you've done? What am I lying about? You entered this thread and thought you could bring up Satan and get all the "Christians" all apoplectic and instead it is you all apoplectic. Please.

Again, I have never said your form of tyranny is unimportant to me, I am saying that I am not going to quote you because I don't see where you merit it. A liar for Jesus? I am a fighting for freedom, pal. That is my gig. What the hell is yours?

You keep ranting that I have made things up, but this is just you backpedaling, and I have no doubt that you will now say you never said you weren't fighting for freedom. You will back pedal and prance and preen and pretend you really meant to stumble. It is clear what you are for and it is suppression of others. You can keep trying to frame me as a Christian apologist all you want, neither God nor Jesus need my defense, but quite clearly freedom does, from people like you.



[edit on 26-5-2010 by Jean Paul Zodeaux]



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
I have to get into this argument. JPZ is getting the component that so many are not getting.

Let me put it out there and everyone let me know your position on this.



Now, the tenet of seperation of church and state was NEVER in the Constitution, it is based on a SCOTUS decision. Let us just say this is true for arguments sake.

Here is the deal folks, with government pervading every aspect of society, let us use the schools as a base and go from there.

The government licenses or enacts tax laws that a Church has to petition to get not for profit status. So, in essence they are being licensed by the state so to speak.

Well hell, with this the government could say that any non profit entity would have to follow the government doctrine.


Churches are perfectly free to choose not to seek tax exempt status. That is their choice. My church for one refused to even go there. If they have a problem with being "licensed by the state" they have the option to opt out at any time.


The roads are supplied by the state so no freedom of religion there.


What spiritual, philosophical, developmental, psychological, mythical beliefs are being imparted on your children by roads?


The businesses are licensed by the state so no freedom of religion there.


What spiritual, philosophical, developmental, psychological, mythical beliefs are being imparted on your children by business?


The houses are permitted and zoned so no freedom of religion there.


What spiritual, philosophical, developmental, psychological, mythical beliefs are being imparted on your children by houses?


You are certified and given a Socialist Security number, a citizen, which basically is the foundation of government, so even yourself have to follow the tenet that the government espouses.


What tenet is that?


Wake the hell up and smell the tyranny and hypocrisy.


Guess some of us need coffee with some real caffeine in it.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:47 AM
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Besides the obvious, letting parents raise their children in the faith of their choosing, or better yet, educate the child on all faiths and let them choose.................

Doesn't the christian god have better things to do than over see a school football game? I mean, why aren't people praying for things like world peace, or help the sick and needy, or a new flavor of bubble gum, you know more important things than silly sports?



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:48 AM
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Originally posted by stonergeek
Ok, so if the entire team went to the same church and all of the opposing teams were of the same faith and chose to do this, would it still be a problem?



Yes. It's a public event funded by the government. The government can not under constitutional law sanction any religion at all regardless of how many followers of that religion are at said public event.

Law is law. Public is public. Church is church.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:48 AM
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Find it hard to believe this thread is still going strong, so far it's mostly just people bashing eachothers beliefs and opinions over religion. Seems to me that's how a lot of conflicts start in this world, religion is not sacred it's a door to justified violence.

Oh and Jean Paul, I see your still here attacking every post you read. I'm glad you have the time to point out the problems with every idea on here. Without out you I am sure no one would realize their beliefs are wrong
ooops that was sarcastic
IMO religion is wrong, we have science to prove that. But to each their own. If religion is your vise that's all fine, I choose a vise I can roll up and enjoy anywhere any time.



posted on May, 26 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


What do you not get? I asked you to have an HONEST discussion. You still refuse to do that. You stand by your miss-quotes of me and just move on to the next thing?

Sorry but no. I am not reading or responding to your posts until you go back and find some quotes of me saying ANY of the things you claim I said. Until then, you are a willful liar and as fun as that might be to play with, having a discussion about your Christianity just seems stupid with you lying on your half.

I will say it once more and then if you refuse I can just put you on ignore, ok?

Either quote me saying the things you claimed I said or retract your claims. If you could admit you were wrong and realize I never said the things you claim I said, I would be willing to engage. If you could prove I said them, same thing.

Any other response is going to be ignored the same as this one.



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