Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

The need for God in the 21st century is just as relevant today as it was in the earliest times of man. There is a craving in all humans to belong, to be a part of something bigger than themselves, and a need to not have everything in life be an accident. We need purpose in our life. Most people are driven by a need to not make this all one big accident, if we are an accident than we would have no purpose and what we do has no meaning, and when we are gone we have left nothing behind because we cease to exist. If there is no creator, there is no afterlife, no reincarnation for some, no source for others, no meaning behind any of this thing we call life.

Where is God? Why hasn't he done anything to stop the madness?
Let's explore this a little bit. There was a study that compared charitable donations between religious and secular giving. here is the link

www.hoover.org...
What they found was that the religous person is 25% more likely to give money than a secular person and 23% more likely to volunteer their time.
So when you ask where is God he is all around us, he is in the person that gives, he is in the person that shows compassion where no one else does. I am not referring to the church which should not be confused with the religious person. The church is a man made entity thus faces corruption just like any other big organization. We like to site these as examples of reasons God does not exist. You see God is perfect not man. The message is often distorted by exaggerating someone's or somethings mistake. So others site these as examples that God must be bad. I am also not stating that all good deeds are done by those that believe in God. I am showing that those that believe in God are more giving. I think you will also find that the more we remove God form schools, institutions, and governments you see more and more moral decay. Our movies are more violent and more graphic, as are our video games, and tv shows. It was not to long ago that curse words were not allowed on tv or nudity. I do not blame the manufacturers they are only producing what sells, but there is a connection between the rising violence and the lack of God. You see most people moral compass is in some way connected to God. If there is no God and we are just an accident, why should I not take anything I want if I'm am the biggest? God gives us the boundary's. Everyone's version of God is a little different. Why do we insist that there are aliens and spend so much time and money looking for them if not for the fact that we want to be part of something bigger and not be the only ones out there. The aliens replace God in this scenario.
Most people blame God for the bad things in life. Thus the if God is real why doesn't he just magically heal everything? He loves us and gave us choice which means we have to accept the consequences of our choices. Very similar to the concept that I personally would not burn the american flag, but I do defend the right for someone to burn the flag as thier constitutional right.
God doesn't cause the bad things, and he doesn't need us. But ask yourself this, if so many people did not believe in God where would we be right now. If survival of the fittest was the rule would we be sitting here or holding up somewhere trying to survive. There are bad things in the world and bad things happen, that does not mean God does not exist. God will be found in the crusader that fought against the bad thing. Martin Luther King Jr. he could not have done all he did without God. The list is long. We would not have formed America the way it was formed if not for the belief in God. God is all around you and for those that believe and have faith in Him, it is evident in their works. Hopefully those that believe can show you enough love and compassion that you might see we are not just some cosmic accident.

Originally posted by novastrike81

Probably because we aren't God's son, maybe? Just a thought. We are His creations but Jesus is his Son. God does want you to believe, he tries to reach out to everyone. There comes a point when He gives up because you, not you personally, won't accept his free gift Now your only chance is to rely on someone else to believe which makes it hard on you to become saved. That's how it's been described to me and it's part of the debate, right? I enjoy them too just not when people tarnish the person over their beliefs.

[edit on 1-5-2010 by novastrike81]

A gift is only free if there are no strings attached.
=========

Another question I wonder about is why most people believe that you have to have a belief in god to be a good person. If a Christian gives food to the poor, and an atheist gives food to the poor, is one person better than the other?

Why do some people have a hard time believing that a person can believe in the afterlife without believing in your god?

Why do most think that you can't have any morals if you don't believe in your god? Some say, what's your reason for living then? Life, love, happiness, experience, learning, sharing, caring, etc. are reasons to live and people can experience all those without a god in their life. The only thing I do differently from a Christian is that I live my life for me, for my family, for my loved ones, with no worry of repercussions.



[edit on 2-5-2010 by virraszto]

For All Atheists:
First off, we get the last laugh, because when you take of that shell that is your body, that you falsely believe is you ...then you will see that you still exist ...then you will be faced with the afterlife and the existence of God, Heavens and Hells.

Treat God with a scientific approach and see for yourself whether God exists or not. Unless you have studied scriptures, practice techniques for spiritual experiences, and meditated by seeking what is within you ..... you are just speculating.

Lets ask here who is the slave. You have no control over your own functions such as lust, greed, thoughts, impulses, and animal instincts. One day you're happy and the next your sad ...you're like a message in a bottle affected by what ever turmoil the ocean of this world seems to bring.

You are completely influenced by culture, society, peers, parents, and whatever the latest trends are.

Then we have those who experience God and know God to exist as a fact. These are people who are shedding the ego, letting go of all attachments, they become like stone foundations neither affected by the world, nor any of its brainwashing. They completely welcome death and experience transcendent realities that are beyond limited minute functions such as logic and reason that only take you so far.

You guys who dont get to experience God ...... you have no idea on how much awesomeness beyond anything else that exists you are missing out on.

Take the best experience you ever had, lust, money, orgasms, success, love, accomplishments,etc. Multiply those by infinity and they still dont hold a candle to the awesomeness of the Infinite and Omnipresent God.

Of course you can't see God..... because Omnipresence is everywhere and within everything. If you're looking for a specific Bearded dude on a cloud ......hah!!! Good luck with that one.

Soon as you open your eyes in the morning, you are seeing God, as you go through-out the day working, living, loving, hating ...you are seeing God face to face everywhere you go.

Dont try and use logic and reason (which are extremely limited and pale in comparison) to try and figure out where is God. It takes an unraveling of yourself and destruction of the way you label everything to experience God.

Try living life without ever labeling things with words and thoughts ....then you shall come close to the Divine. Work on ego death ...then you shall see God.

I've converted about a dozen or so extremely intellectual atheists to believers and experiencers of God in the last 5 years ....using Science, logic and reason alone to convert them. Then afterwords they see the beauty of scripture and Divine realities.

Spend a month with me, and you'll see for yourself as well. Until then, you simply live in a limited box filled with limited views based on labeling things and taking subjective stances.

When you experience God, you experience Objectivity.

reply to post by deenuu


All I have to say is u hit it right on the spot man. Good job.

Originally posted by dominicus
For All Atheists:


Lets ask here who is the slave. You have no control over your own functions such as lust, greed, thoughts, impulses, and animal instincts. One day you're happy and the next your sad ...you're like a message in a bottle affected by what ever turmoil the ocean of this world seems to bring.

You are completely influenced by culture, society, peers, parents, and whatever the latest trends are.

Surely you are not implying that Christians don't experience those same emotions? And the only people who do are heathens?

So, do true Christians experience a constant orgasmic high 24/7 due to a believe in god?

Come on!

reply to post by novastrike81


Here comes the name callin, oh boy. First of all, I never said i was better at everything than everyone, so I have no clue why ur gettin all offensive. And why does God, thats right with an upper case G, have to be all powerful and divine? In my eyes, everyone is God. No one rules your life but you. And how am I selfish for not putting your Christian God first? Your emotions are getting to you. And I am not selfish so quit assuming things about people if you dont even know them, I never claimed to be or said I was selfish. I know people who were christian were persecuted also, I dont need you to tell me something I already know. Pardon my vagueness, I was meaning to express my thoughts on all religions in which a God is worshiped, not just Christianity. In all seriousness there all just the same with few differences.

I need the OP to be more specific.
Are you saying that all religions are forms of slavery.
Or are you saying that belief/faith in a supreme being is a form of slavery?

PTCpreacher

The need for God in the 21st century is just as relevant today as it was in the earliest times of man. There is a craving in all humans to belong, to be a part of something bigger than themselves, and a need to not have everything in life be an accident. We need purpose in our life. Most people are driven by a need to not make this all one big accident, if we are an accident than we would have no purpose and what we do has no meaning, and when we are gone we have left nothing behind because we cease to exist. If there is no creator, there is no afterlife, no reincarnation for some, no source for others, no meaning behind any of this thing we call life.

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.
C.S. Lewis

An excellent post preacher.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by CHA0S


Just remember, that whether they're talking about their god one day undeniably showing himself or you are talking about science figuring out everything or damn near everything, you both are speaking in the langauge of optimism. And optimism TOO MUCH allowed to be used as an acceptable place holder for facts. Unless of course one claims to be a psychic, which is considered unscientific.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Hi LeoVirgo,
I must admit that I wrote my last post very early this morning and after not sleeping very well. I did not mean to say to the individual that he believed "nothing came from nothing", I meant to imply that he/she believed "everything came from nothing" hence the thought that his/her belief took a lot more faith than mine did.
Compared to the average believer I am probably a little more open minded than most fundamentalist. For example; the probability that aliens exist does not threaten my idea of God, or the possibility that Jesus would have married while on earth does not threaten my idea of His holiness.
However, I do believe in an all knowing, all seeing God. As you say that language is insufficient to get ideas about creation and God, a higher power, etc accross, I agree.
When people use science to try to explain away or somehow belittled the God of the Bible, it just seems odd to me. I mean we are really trying to use what we have discovered in creation to explain or explain away the Creator. It's like an infant coming out of the womb with the ambilical (sp?) cord still attached turning and glaring at it's mother and saying I understand how all this came to be. It just can't happen.
Is God egotistical? From a human stand point...yes. From the stand point of inferior failed beings....yes. But from the stand point of a Diety or perhaps perfected immortal beings, as we are suppose to be when we see Him again, then no.
I can not begin to understand God or prove Him to anyone else. All I know is what I have seen in my life and my reallity. That is what I have to go on. Yes, I have an open mind, but not to the point of being gullible (sp?).
I enjoyed your post...thanks
Seeashrink

instead of my self typing like crazy in this thread about Religious Enslavement here is some points a guy i just found today on youtube
that pretty much has some ideas like i do ! im not a total atheist as i believe there some kind of Heavenly being that created us and life on earth
but i have similar thought as this guy has ..


The Amazing Athiest has some thoughts !!!

Jesus Miracle Fail!!!
www.youtube.com.../u/58/-PICEKwnkhA


Atheism Vs. Skepticism


the site LOL
www.youtube.com.../a




[edit on 2-5-2010 by Wolfenz]

Hello all... i've been following/reading this site for quite some time now.. and never would I have imagined that a thread such as this would finally enticed me to post myself.

I did manage to read most of your replies and point of views regarding the OP's topic but had to skip the last few pages as i'm at work atm.

A bit of backround..

I was raised in a loving home, fortunate enough to have both parents to guide me and of course I followed in their footsteps attending a catholic school, church.. the whole bit. Back then it was a routine I didnt question, as a child you see your parents doing certain things and automatically assume it's the "right" way.. As i got a little older 8 or so I finally started listening to what the priest was saying, and what we (the people) were replying in return... that's when the i started questioning and having doubts. At the early age of 8!!!!! I sensed something wasn't quite right, something in a prayer was out of place, didn't fit in...

Apostles' Creed "... i believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Church, i believe the communion of Saints..."

Saying these last final words, specifically " the holy church" part sounded so noticeably wrong to me even at such an early age. Why does one have to believe in the church to believe in God?

Anyhow my point is......if children (the pure of hearts) can spot such oddities then what does that tell you? Follow that natural feeling within yourself, thats where you'll find God.. within YOU.

A final note: I recently worked as a CSR and one of our clients happened to be a church organization, a huge one, very popular with many many followers... the donations that poured in disgusted me to no end. It especially broke my heart when the elderly called in (which was way too often) to donate what they had left of their savings and the church/ministry accepted every single penny. The word slavery comes to mind.. work all your lives, then hand it over to your church...

[edit on 2-5-2010 by ptcpreacher]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by ptcpreacher]

Religion taught guidelines to the dumbasses from the Dark Ages. Now that we can think on our own, a respectable proportion of us still believe that some guys could cut a sea in two or create wine out of water.

that's depressing.

Originally posted by FeatheredSerpent
can really point some people in the right direction.

Your own sense of conscious can to the same thing...
Who is fundamentally more benevolent? The man who is good for the benefit of a heavenly afterlife, or the man who is good and does the right thing for no reason at all?

Originally posted by dominicus
For All Atheists:
First off, we get the last laugh, because when you take of that shell that is your body, that you falsely believe is you ...then you will see that you still exist ...then you will be faced with the afterlife and the existence of God, Heavens and Hells.

Lets ask here who is the slave. You have no control over your own functions such as lust, greed, thoughts, impulses, and animal instincts. One day you're happy and the next your sad ...you're like a message in a bottle affected by what ever turmoil the ocean of this world seems to bring.

And if you're wrong, you lived you entire live according to a lie...I'm not willing to base my life on pure speculation like the religious folk.

So if you ask who the slave is, I'd say it's the person who limits his personal freedom while he's alive. The very definition of a slave is that you obey someone, and that your freedom is limited. The church wants you to obey them (check!) and also asks you to give up certain freedoms (check!). So yeah, I consider following a religion more like slavery than being a non-believer who only believes in LOGIC and RATIONALITY.

As for mood changes, that's what makes us human. So it's only normal to be happy one day, and sad the other...Christians are sometimes happy, and sometimes sad as well. What are you gonna do if your mom dies? Sit there with a divine smile on your lips because God gives you comfort? NO, you're gonna cry...so your analogy is total hogwash.

I think it's funny how some religious people use the fact that science doesn't explain everything as a validation of their purely speculative theories. I mean, they follow scriptures in a book written by MEN (!!!) and accept all of it as fact, when in reality, there's not the slightest bit of solid proof of an invisible super being.

Scientists are humble enough to admit they don't have all the answers.
Religious people often claim to have the answers and facts, when in reality, it's only speculation and wish believe.

Just look at how many things in the bible have been disproven from a scientific or MORAL standpoint. I mean, according to the bible, slavery, and beating your slave is acceptable as long as he lives another 2 days before he dies. Of course that was written by men, but so is everything else in the bible...think about it!

Originally posted by MattMulder

Religion taught guidelines to the dumbasses from the Dark Ages. Now that we can think on our own, a respectable proportion of us still believe that some guys could cut a sea in two or create wine out of water.

that's depressing.

This!

It's as if all those people who still take things literally (and not just as a philosophy) never made it past the Middle Ages. I mean, there's Evangelists who seriously believe Harry Potter is an enemy of God because he's a wizard. In the 21st CENTURY!!! And those people are allowed to vote!!

It's like allowing chimps to vote...all their votes are based on brainwashed emotions and instinct rather than rationality and logic. It's dangerous, and it's really really sad for our world.

And the biggest bull# believers say is: You'll see, in the end you're gonna burn in hell!

Reeeeeeeeeally? So even if I live a good life, helping others along the way, and if I'm a good person the whole time...when I die, God will throw me into some fire pit because I didn't worship him?

You know what, a God who puts that much imporantance on himself that it overrides anything good a person did during his life, isn't a God I wish to follow. In fact, I'd probably spit in his face...

[edit on 2-5-2010 by MrXYZ]

reply to post by Niccawhois


In my opinion, it would be the guy who does good and righteousness just because. I have no need for a God to tell me whats right or wrong, who is he to judge me? Unsurprisingly I suspect a lot of religious people would tell me just because hes God, something that I cannot and wont accept. I do good and righteous things because I care for others and myself.

Question? If I am a Christian and manage to get to heaven while my children, although good people don't make it because they have a lack of faith, will I be happy in heaven knowing that they are suffering for all of eternity?

WHAT KIND OF GOD WOULD DO THAT?????

Originally posted by dominicus
For All Atheists:
Dont try and use logic and reason (which are extremely limited and pale in comparison) to try and figure out where is God. It takes an unraveling of yourself and destruction of the way you label everything to experience God.

In other words: "make things up so they fit our world view"...because they fit your world view?

That's exactly my point! Letting us be pushed around by people who refuse ot use logice and rationality, like people in the Middle Ages, is dangerous, and will prevent us from making progress as a human species because it hinders science.

reply to post by dominicus

For All Atheists: Treat God with a scientific approach and see for yourself whether God exists or not.

The scientific approach is to test the claims, well the claims have been tested and your god wasn't there if he's real then he remains silent and indolent.

Everything works just fine without your god but the minute his name is mentioned things just go down hill.

Here's a nice little scientific experiment that is quite popular on ATS that both theists and atheists can conduct to help them on their way to drawing a conclusion -