Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

reply to post by deenuu


I was not trying to convince you that God exist so I'm not devastated by your "failed" in all caps.
As long as you seek logic in creation and the existance of God you will not find it.
I sense some hostility in your post which I don't understand, I thought that we had a respectful conversation going.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by romanmel
Isn't it interesting how those who believe in nothing spend so much of their time chastising those who believe in something? You'd think those who have nothing to look forward to after death would spend more time in hedonistic pursuits.

An atheist is so tortured in his soul; he feels a need to devote much of his time to changing the minds of those whom he claims are too stupid to understand what he is saying. And they are so proud of their structured thinking....

We spend so much time refuting your beliefs for some of the same reasons that you so avidly pursue making converts to your religion.
We want you to enjoy Freedom From religion and Freedom From the idea of Hell. We want you to know that you are Energy, and that energy cannot be destroyed. The matrix of that Energy is your soul/consciousness. If you sould did not have consciousness, how would you know if you were either in heaven or in hell?

What makes you think that we have nothing to look forward to after death of this body. It is only the body that dies, you know. I look forward to another life in a new body.
Reincarnation was taught by your early religion, but Rome saw that as an impediment to their plans and took all references to it out of the book that you depend on for advice.

What makes you think that we are in any way tortured? Are Christians who go about trying to bring in new believers tortured? By your reasoning, they must be.

Another reason we want to convert you From religion is because we are sick, sick, sick of your organizations influencing our laws. It used to be that liquor was not allowed to be sold on Sundays because of your stupid religion. Fortunately the city/county fathers saw the light of Freedom and now we can shop almost anywhere for anything on Sundays.
Currently abortion is the issue your are using in your attempt to remove our freedom of self responsibility and to control our lives.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by Niccawhois
Question? If I am a Christian and manage to get to heaven while my children, although good people don't make it because they have a lack of faith, will I be happy in heaven knowing that they are suffering for all of eternity?

WHAT KIND OF GOD WOULD DO THAT?????

First the feelings that you and I have are nothing compared to those of God, we can not begin to understand. His thoughts are not ours.
Now lets look at it from strictly a human perspective.
Lets say that one day your child goes into a grocery store and robs the place. He also shoots and kills several people. Whould you want him to come home to you or would you want him in jail? You may still love him but I am sure you would not want him around your other family members, right?
Now did you make him kill all those people? Did you put him in jail? How can you blame God if someone does not make it into heaven?

More people who ask the "what kind of God would do that?" should read this. I know my parents were like that and they still treat all their kids the same today even in our 20's and 30's. You get in to trouble you suffer the consequences. They aren't going to bail you out every time YOU make a mistake. My parents still love me and the rest of my brother's and sister's but they aren't going to hold my hand my whole life; time to grow up. I know every parent isn't that way but that's how I relate because it's the same way with God and my parents aren't religious so it makes sense. In this case the punishment is death and eternity in Hell.

Originally posted by OhZone
What makes you think that we have nothing to look forward to after death of this body. It is only the body that dies, you know. I look forward to another life in a new body.
Reincarnation was taught by your early religion, but Rome saw that as an impediment to their plans and took all references to it out of the book that you depend on for advice.

Prove this please otherwise it's another useless opinion to support anti-religion. Rome did not write the Bible or change it in anyway otherwise they wouldn't have killed countless Christians who believed in God. It doesn't make sense to write a book about a belief that predates Rome itself with texts that also predate Rome.

Another reason we want to convert you From religion is because we are sick, sick, sick of your organizations influencing our laws. It used to be that liquor was not allowed to be sold on Sundays because of your stupid religion. Fortunately the city/county fathers saw the light of Freedom and now we can shop almost anywhere for anything on Sundays.
Currently abortion is the issue your are using in your attempt to remove our freedom of self responsibility and to control our lives.

And we are sick, sick, sick of you trying to tell us what to not to believe in. It's the end of the world that you can't buy liquor on Sunday, oh man what am I going to do without liquor on Sunday!?!?!?! Just because a few people don't believe in abortion doesn't mean all of them do. You need to stop being biased. I could care less if someone has an abortion its their body they can destroy it however they want. I may not agree with it but then again I'm not the one who made a bad decision and got put in the situation to begin with.

It's the government who wants to take your freedom's not religion. The Bible says not to do a lot of things; like get drunk, lust after the flesh (stare at those hotties woohoo!), murder. All those can be considered freedom's of self-responsibility because you are accountable in one way or another if you get drunk and kill someone behind the wheel, or commit adultery/cheat on your significant other. Watch out for them! Consequences are a result of this self-responsibility you think religion is trying to take away from you. The impression I'm getting is you don't want to be held accountable for anything you do, no self-respect for yourself and no respect for others. Just do as you please if you will. Maybe I got that wrong but that is the view of a lot of others if it doesn't fit your persona.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by deenuu


well I guess the Mighty looking Angel I had seen as a child would'nt do you much good either then?

When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is possessed by Beelzebub!-Mark3.21

and they heap abuse on you. 5But they will have to give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.-1Pet4.4

Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.-Luke5.31

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.-!John1.8

For God has bound all men over to disobedience-Rom11.32

From the west, men will fear the Name of the LORD-Is59.19

The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them.-Ps34.7

reply to post by seeashrink


No hostility here I really try to not judge anyone, although it’s really difficult sometimes, If I sound hostile it’s only because all religion really offends me, makes me sick. I see so much death and destruction all over the world in the name of god, Religion shields people from personal responsibility and conditions humans to servitude, Religion also separates us we are all human, we all bleed the is no right or wrong, or heaven or hell to separate us again once we die . We live in a beautifully diverse and wondrous world, If you watch The Hubble deep field on you tube you will see the awesome universe we live in I personally don’t think because I don’t fully understand it that it must be created, Take some quiet time to look up at the stars and have a really good think about what it is to be human and how amazing the real world we live in is and the thought of a creator all knowing power, watching over you becomes quiet distant. Now some people will feel quiet lonely if you have gone your whole life thinking god has your back but reality is we are alone it is other humans which comfort us and it is personal responsibility which frees people.

Just my thoughts no hostility do what you please with your life but I have no plans to ever shut up or cease expressing my self as expression is the only thing humans do well.

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by seeashrink

 

No hostility here I really try to not judge anyone, although it’s really difficult sometimes, If I sound hostile it’s only because all religion really offends me, makes me sick. I see so much death and destruction all over the world in the name of god, Religion shields people from personal responsibility and conditions humans to servitude, Religion also separates us we are all human, we all bleed the is no right or wrong, or heaven or hell to separate us again once we die . We live in a beautifully diverse and wondrous world, If you watch The Hubble deep field on you tube you will see the awesome universe we live in I personally don’t think because I don’t fully understand it that it must be created, Take some quiet time to look up at the stars and have a really good think about what it is to be human and how amazing the real world we live in is and the thought of a creator all knowing power, watching over you becomes quiet distant. Now some people will feel quiet lonely if you have gone your whole life thinking god has your back but reality is we are alone it is other humans which comfort us and it is personal responsibility which frees people.

Just my thoughts no hostility do what you please with your life but I have no plans to ever shut up or cease expressing my self as expression is the only thing humans do well.

When was the last war when had that was fought over religion? Can you name one that happened in the past 300 years? Most wars are fought over territory, money, slavery back in the day, and oil and domination. Domination maybe not so much that's more human nature. Just reasons for war in general seems to be some form of greed or more power.

The Crusades are the most well known but that is the only one that most people know that was real "religious" war. The rest of them use religion as propaganda for war even though it's really for greed: territory, money, etc.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by No King but Jesus

well I guess the Mighty looking Angel I had seen as a child would'nt do you much good either then?

doesent sound like its doing you much good either man, For your sake I hope your a troll...

reply to post by novastrike81

And we are sick, sick, sick of you trying to tell us what to not to believe in. It's the end of the world that you can't buy liquor on Sunday, oh man what am I going to do without liquor on Sunday!?!?!?!

Why can't the people who believe drinking on a Sunday is a sin or against their religon JUST DON'T DRINK ON SUNDAYS...instead of trying to push through a law forcing all of us?

They could just follow their belief on their own, without laws that force the rest of us to do the same.

If their religion doesn't allow them to abort a child, then why can't they just not do it...instead of trying to mess it up for the rest of us who would be fine with abortion in certain circumstances if it's done early enough?

You see, we'd be perfectly fine letting them live their lives...but for some reason the reverse doesn't seem to be true.

reply to post by novastrike81


Religion has its roots in the current war in Iraq and Afghanistan!

Yanks/west fight for freedom and democracy and didn’t Bush Jr say something along the lines of Its gods will we destroy the terrorists, on the flip side the terrorists/east are fighting because they feel threatened and they believe their god is right, common man The current was has religion splashed all over it. There is obviously allot more to the current war but this is the gloss the MSM and government paints for the public to get people like you on their side

wow my spelling really sux ha ha ha

[edit on 2-5-2010 by deenuu]

Originally posted by piedsniper
reply to post by novastrike81

 

It has not tried to find all the archeological evidence pointing towards its accuracy

No real need to find archeological evidence for accuracy when one simply look to the sky and observe that the earth orbits the sun and it also happens to be spherical not flat and just a tad older than 6000 years.

Need I say more ?

Yes I think you do.
Ok, since everyone seems to have made this Christianity vs Athiesm.
you do need to say more. Lets do a little research. Nowhere in the bible does it state how long the earth has been around. We know that Judaism came about around 6000 years ago but not the earth. Nowhere in the bible does it state how long Adam and Eve were in the garden of Eden, but it does make references to other humans and other creatures including dinosaurs in the bible. so you cannot state that since the earth has been around over 6000 years that the religion is incorrect and there is no God. You need to find another argument. since no other religion states this as not being possible

[edit on 2-5-2010 by ptcpreacher]

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by novastrike81

 

And we are sick, sick, sick of you trying to tell us what to not to believe in. It's the end of the world that you can't buy liquor on Sunday, oh man what am I going to do without liquor on Sunday!?!?!?!

Why can't the people who believe drinking on a Sunday is a sin or against their religon JUST DON'T DRINK ON SUNDAYS...instead of trying to push through a law forcing all of us?

They could just follow their belief on their own, without laws that force the rest of us to do the same.

If their religion doesn't allow them to abort a child, then why can't they just not do it...instead of trying to mess it up for the rest of us who would be fine with abortion in certain circumstances if it's done early enough?

You see, we'd be perfectly fine letting them live their lives...but for some reason the reverse doesn't seem to be true.

Yeah, I agree, it sucks and I'll stand by you on that one. I follow my beliefs on my own like you say. My friends try to get me to drink all the time but I just say no, it's not for me, and it's okay with them and we still hang out. In my honest opinion, people who are really devout in their beliefs think Satan is the cause for EVERYTHING. I may disagree, I think most humans are just corrupt to begin with. There isn't anything wrong with having a good time. Granted you don't need to get wasted to have a good time and a lot of bad comes from being inebriated. So that may be why people force their personal beliefs on to others is because they want to have a better environment for themselves; and most likely others. It does seem to be more of a personal gain than anything though. Wouldn't you agree?

If they can get you to follow their ways it's a victory for them; if not they have been defeated by Satan, oh no! Being a believer, I think Satan has some influence but I think most of it is just us humans being unintelligent when we know we are capable of better things. My opinions though.

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Religion has its roots in the current war in iraq and Afganistan!

Yanks/west fight for freedom and democricy and didnt Bush Jr say something along the lines of Its gods will we destroy the terrorists, on the flip side the terrorists/east are fighting because they feel threatened and they believe their god is right, comon man The current was has religion splashed all over it. There is obiously alot more to the current war but this is the gloss the MSM and government paints for the public to get people like you on their side .

I'm not on the government's side. It may sound weird cause I work for the government but I got a family to support so. I know how corrupt the government is and I've been skeptical of the war since day one. I think Bush is a Christian or something anyway, don't quote me on it. The current war is for oil and money, not religion. Religion is the cover page; fight those Muslims! It may be religious for the Muslims but it's not for me or for America.

I'd much rather just let them be, they aren't harming me thousands of miles away in the desert. Most of those guys are nice people if you ever meet them. A lot of it is the government making them out to be terrible. Like Hitler did with the Jews.

Most of those hardcore vets who say "they want to kill you if they see you!" Well, if you came into my house with a gun and point it at me I'd probably want to kill you too. You can't believe everything the MSM tells you otherwise you're a slave to them. You hardly see any good come on the media, at least in regards to that war unless we capture some super secret cave man! We're told to wake up and not be slaves to religion but it would seem most people are slaves to the media/society and the government.


[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81


as I said

There is obiously alot more to the current war but this is the gloss the MSM and government paints for the public to get people like you on their side .

The war is for resources and world domination, but religion and social values are used as a cover story to get the public support, which it does.

So religion is used to justfify war.

reply to post by novastrike81

Most of those hardcore vets who say "they want to kill you if they see you!" Well, if you came into my house with a gun and point it at me I'd probably want to kill you too. You can't believe everything the MSM tells you otherwise you're a slave to them. You hardly see any good come on the media, at least in regards to that war unless we capture some super secret cave man! We're told to wake up and not be slaves to religion but it would seem most people are slaves to the media/society and the government.

I wouldnt be on here and many other alternative sites if I believed the MSM I completly agree with all you say

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81

 

as I said

There is obiously alot more to the current war but this is the gloss the MSM and government paints for the public to get people like you on their side .

The war is for resources and world domination, but religion and social values are used as a cover story to get the public support, which it does.

So religion is used to justfify war.

Oh now I see your point. I thought you meant me personally, lol. You mean "you" as in a Christianity. Yeah, you're right, they are because it's a soft spot and they know how to push our buttons. Of course, if you're smart, you can see that it's more or less a "delusion" or "lie" to get you to support an unjust cause. Personally, I have to do it whether I believe in it or not because I'd rather have some freedoms then no freedoms in jail or dead.

Though religion is being justified for war doesn't give people the right to blame Christianity, or whatever denomination one chooses, as the direct cause for the war, or whatever the reason is. Quite frankly, it's a cop out if you ask me, those would rather blame God then face their own insecurities or truths and believe the half truth. Not saying it's you or any readers here but I've seen it in other places too.


[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

reply to post by novastrike81

Though religion is being justified for war doesn't give people the right to blame Christianity

Agreed, but religious ideals whether christian or not are part of every war from the poor digger on the ground praying he doesn’t get shot, to the highest commander in chief thinking he is doing gods will or a public propaganda campaign to generate support for a war based on lies.

Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81

 

Though religion is being justified for war doesn't give people the right to blame Christianity

Agreed, but religious ideals whether christian or not are part of every war from the poor digger on the ground praying he doesn’t get shot, to the highest commander in chief thinking he is doing gods will or a public propaganda campaign to generate support for a war based on lies.

True, but think about it, if you follow theology a little bit. One could say the war of "religion" started before humans even started fighting amongst each other. If you know how Lucifer fell you may be able to put two and two together and figure out there was a war in Heaven before war on Earth. Does that strike you as odd that religion always finds its way into war somehow? I think it does but that's my belief. Also, any chief killing in the name of God is not doing God's will because that violates at least one of his 10 Commandments.

We humans are a messed up if you dig down deep enough. I try not to support any wars now but such is life.

The most incoherent thing about this whole thread is the Biblical belief that man is created in God's image and has dignity that led to freedom. First against the oppression of monarchy and then slavery.Christian religion is in fact largely responsible for ending institutionalized slavery. It was Christians like Wilberforce who did it. If you doubt it, read the introduction of his wiki article.

I

reply to post by MrXYZ

And if you're wrong, you lived you entire live according to a lie...I'm not willing to base my life on pure speculation like the religious folk.

So if you ask who the slave is, I'd say it's the person who limits his personal freedom while he's alive. The very definition of a slave is that you obey someone, and that your freedom is limited. The church wants you to obey them (check!) and also asks you to give up certain freedoms (check!). So yeah, I consider following a religion more like slavery than being a non-believer who only believes in LOGIC and RATIONALITY.

As for mood changes, that's what makes us human. So it's only normal to be happy one day, and sad the other...Christians are sometimes happy, and sometimes sad as well. What are you gonna do if your mom dies? Sit there with a divine smile on your lips because God gives you comfort? NO, you're gonna cry...so your analogy is total hogwash.

I think it's funny how some religious people use the fact that science doesn't explain everything as a validation of their purely speculative theories. I mean, they follow scriptures in a book written by MEN (!!!) and accept all of it as fact, when in reality, there's not the slightest bit of solid proof of an invisible super being.

Scientists are humble enough to admit they don't have all the answers.
Religious people often claim to have the answers and facts, when in reality, it's only speculation and wish believe.

Just look at how many things in the bible have been disproven from a scientific or MORAL standpoint. I mean, according to the bible, slavery, and beating your slave is acceptable as long as he lives another 2 days before he dies. Of course that was written by men, but so is everything else in the bible...think about it!

You don't understand where I come from because you operate at the level of mere logic and rationality. I am speaking in terms of experiencing the divine daily, 24/7, to such an extent that when my mother dies, I simply brush it off knowing that she shed her body and is back home where she originally came from. There is no need for sadness (a relative emotion).

It is not a matter of God giving comfort but of seeing the perspective objectively and getting the chance to see from God's perspective.

I never said that science doesnt explain everything ...come to think of it .... if you research Bose/Einstein condensate you will see that when atoms are frozen to as close as is possible to absolute zero ....key word here "Absolute" ...that they turn to strings ...and then further on turn into Oneness non-localized.

The very science that you thing "religious folks" use as an excuse saying they dont have all the answers ...is in fact getting closer and closer to proving the divine.

First man to speculate the Atom was a mystic from 2,500 years ago named Kanada who operated on the levels of experiencing the divine daily. And your precious modern science just recently caught up to the mystics in terms of discovering the atom. Laughable.....

Then you say scriptures written by man but hypocritically endorse the same written language that science uses to prove their hypothesis and also yourself use the written word to prove your own.

Its really not hard to realize that a man who is experiencing a divine and objective reality ....can pass along the knowledge of the unlimited using the limits of human language and the traps of semantics. This where scripture comes from ....... just like you believe all your news, and scientific articles, and so forth. Not much difference.

The whole slavery thing ....was common back then ...the Bible section describing slavery was simply a commentary of what was taking place ....then folks take it and completely twist it out of context to use it as some tool to bash the rest of it.

The Bible is poetry, commentary, mysticism, historical records, and different authors views (each of whom had different levels of divine understanding)

Surely you are not implying that Christians don't experience those same emotions? And the only people who do are heathens?

So, do true Christians experience a constant orgasmic high 24/7 due to a believe in god?

Come on!

You are the one assuming that anyone outside of a Christian is a heathen .....so according to your system of labels I will say that I know heathens that are better acting and doing folks than most Christians I know.....

.....My point (which seems to be taken out of context) is for that of a seasoned Christian ....a veteran seeker of God. You have rookies, sophmores, juniors, seniors, and graduates ..... on the spiritual path ....each individual is in different stages of spiritual evolution.

Yes most Christians also share in those roller coaster emotions .....but to the seasoned veterans ....(in many paths) .....the individual becomes a freakin solid corner stone of immovability simpy resting in the trust of divinity, experiencing states that you only dream of.

Plus I used to be you. I used to be an atheist, laughing at the idea of a God and religion in general ....I probed it intellectually and saw that Mystics spoke of intellect, logic/reason ...being limited and that there are additional faculties beyond these ....that allow you to experience infinity and the divine. So I approached it in the manner of a spiritual scientist and have never looked back ....I would dread to go back to the insanity of the pre-spiritual-experiences state......

.....those states are like a slumber, an ego fest, a battle of egos, it is like a sleepwalking prison and jail to the senses and soul.

Now, after experiencing the divine it is freedom, ego death, aliveness, infinity, laughing at death in spiritual fearlessness, knowing that the ego and who you and I think we are is all illusion ...seeing behind the veil. All senses are enhanced, even intellect and reason have expanded to encompass transcendence.

It was like before experiencing God, only 5-8% of the Brain was accessed and after the experience of God ...it was like50-70% and more and more opens up by the month. The soul is experienced, the body loses its heaviness, the bodily impulses and animal instincts weaken ........ it is pure 1000% awesomeness and I would give up everything for any of you to experience these states!!!!!

Your missing out BIG time!!!!!!!