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Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

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posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 





True, but think about it, if you follow theology a little bit. One could say the war of "religion" started before humans even started fighting amongst each other. If you know how Lucifer fell you may be able to put two and two together and figure out there was a war in Heaven before war on Earth. Does that strike you as odd that religion always finds its way into war somehow? I think it does but that's my belief. Also, any chief killing in the name of God is not doing God's will because that violates at least one of his 10 Commandments.


Mate i cannot grasp the idea of Lucifer falling from grace after a huge war involving good and evil, he was an ark angel I think who wanted Gods power?? I look around at everything I have experienced in my life and i just cannot believe anything like that has ever happened. Like I cannot believe I will goto hell once I am dead. Acording to your beliefs I will goto hell, as I will never accept Jesus, or god in fact if he is true I hate him/it whatever, so when I die I am going to spend eternity in a burning pit full of pain and suffering, with a half goat half human red man taunting me. Its just not true.




posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


You keep on using the word "objectively" in the wrong way...what you mean is "subjectively" because only you claim to have those experiences.

I really hope you see the difference between scriptures such as the bibles, and scientific texts. Comparing the two by saying both were written by man, and both are therefore equally as valid is laughable, sorry.

You can't seriously believe that a scientif paper about comets written today is the same as people claiming them to be "signs of God"?

The main difference though is that scientists label their theories as such. A theory is something you wanna prove or disprove...you don't have the whole answer yet, so you label it as a theory.

Religous people claim their scriptures are FACT! They don't have prove for a lot of the things in the bible, yet they stubornly continue to portray them as facts when they're not. And what's more, they use this as a basis to make make up laws, regulations, and policies. Those things should be based on logic, not speculation and fairy tales that can't be proven. You can follow the guidelines in scriptures for yourself, and that's fine...every human has the right to experience happiness and believe in whatever they want...AS LONG as they dont' feel the need to force it upon others.

Sadly many people like those dangerous evangelicals try to enter politics, and try to create laws based on their religious beliefs. Those people need to be stopped, because the day EMOTIONS override LOGIC when it comes to laws, is the day our society falls back to being a theocracy.

Obviously some people would like that, because it would make it soooooo easy to manipulate people, and you could basically do whatever you want as long as you find a way to justify it through religion...no matter how ridiculous or illogical it is.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by K J Gunderson
 





After all these years, no one ever whispered in my ear. I never felt anything special, heard anything in my head or my heart. Why is God so picky about who he comes to invite in?


Guess I'll field this one since you're being ignored. Gun, If you knew anything, of what you are sounding so sarcastic about. You would know that it's not he who invites you in. YOU have to invite him in. Having it completely backwards I think had a diverse effect. Now are you willing to try and get it right this time? Remeber, you invite him in.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81
 





True, but think about it, if you follow theology a little bit. One could say the war of "religion" started before humans even started fighting amongst each other. If you know how Lucifer fell you may be able to put two and two together and figure out there was a war in Heaven before war on Earth. Does that strike you as odd that religion always finds its way into war somehow? I think it does but that's my belief. Also, any chief killing in the name of God is not doing God's will because that violates at least one of his 10 Commandments.


Mate i cannot grasp the idea of Lucifer falling from grace after a huge war involving good and evil, he was an ark angel I think who wanted Gods power?? I look around at everything I have experienced in my life and i just cannot believe anything like that has ever happened. Like I cannot believe I will goto hell once I am dead. Acording to your beliefs I will goto hell, as I will never accept Jesus, or god in fact if he is true I hate him/it whatever, so when I die I am going to spend eternity in a burning pit full of pain and suffering, with a half goat half human red man taunting me. Its just not true.


I'll be honest I'm not sure which story of Lucifer is true or if they both are. I've heard the one you mentioned where he wants to BE God. The other one is that after God created man and God was showing His love for them; I suppose you could call it favoritism, that Lucifer became jealous. He let his pride get in the way and was like "why do you love those creations more than me (us angels)?" Being the strongest of angels, arch-angel, and holding the highest position only second to God himself, he got 1/3 of the angels to rebel with him thus hearing a 1/3 of the stars fell from the skies that night. Then he becomes who he is today. Have you heard that version? I'm not sure if they go together with the one you mentioned or not. The whole red head man with a half goat half man thing isn't what he looks like. People need to stop confusing Greek mythology with the mainstream religion.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
Religous people claim their scriptures are FACT! They don't have prove for a lot of the things in the bible, yet they stubornly continue to portray them as facts when they're not. And what's more, they use this as a basis to make make up laws, regulations, and policies. Those things should be based on logic, not speculation and fairy tales that can't be proven. You can follow the guidelines in scriptures for yourself, and that's fine...every human has the right to experience happiness and believe in whatever they want...AS LONG as they dont' feel the need to force it upon others.


Scientist claim their work as fact even if it's not. There is a lot more proof for the Bible then you give credit for. Again, you choose not to believe it or see it because it's not "science". I don't like having my rights taken away and forced to not speak when I have the right to. Stop using circular reason when you know the same thing in religion is happening in the world we live in. Unless you can show me what's not a fact in the Bible then I'll have to call your bluff and say you are just spouting non-sense to support your anti-religion rant.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


Now they don't. Tell me something they claim as fact that isn't labeled as theory?? They all work using scientific method.

And no, I can't give scriptures the benefit of the doubt when it comes to proving things. Either you CAN prove something, or you CAN'T. If you can't, label it as theory. Religious people can't prove the existence of God, yet they continue to claim his existence is a fact.

But I told you, that's not what's annoying me. Everyone can believe whatever they want if it makes them happy. But don't try to force it upon others by using it as a basis to create laws limiting the freedom of those who don't believe the same as you.

As for non-facts in the bible worshippers claim as facts:

- Guy parting the seas
- God
- Jesus' resurrection
- The whole Adam & Eve story

..do I have to go on?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


This will help, most of the Satanology you speak of is derived for these prophetic passages. 2 Cor 11:14 "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."



Isaiah 14:12-15


How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13You said in your heart,
'I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.'
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the far reaches of the pit.



And Ezekiel 28

[note Satan is beautiful... not hideous]




"You were the signet of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering,
sardius, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings.
On the day that you were created
they were prepared.
14You were an anointed guardian cherub.
I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God;
in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
15You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created,
till unrighteousness was found in you.
16In the abundance of your trade
you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned;
so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God,
and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub,
from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty;
you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I exposed you before kings,
to feast their eyes on you.
18By the multitude of your iniquities,
in the unrighteousness of your trade
you profaned your sanctuaries;
so I brought fire out from your midst;
it consumed you,
and I turned you to ashes on the earth
in the sight of all who saw you.
19All who know you among the peoples
are appalled at you;
you have come to a dreadful end
and shall be no more forever."




Revelation 12 War in heaven:



Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.



Hope that helps.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by novastrike81
 


Now they don't. Tell me something they claim as fact that isn't labeled as theory?? They all work using scientific method.

And no, I can't give scriptures the benefit of the doubt when it comes to proving things. Either you CAN prove something, or you CAN'T. If you can't, label it as theory. Religious people can't prove the existence of God, yet they continue to claim his existence is a fact.

But I told you, that's not what's annoying me. Everyone can believe whatever they want if it makes them happy. But don't try to force it upon others by using it as a basis to create laws limiting the freedom of those who don't believe the same as you.


You're the one who made the claims, don't pin it on me to provide YOU evidence or proof. I already believe it to be true in some regards so it's on you, not me.

So I understand you, not in a sarcastic way, you are annoyed that people are trying to pass laws like "STOP ABORTION NOOOOOW!" and "MAKE DRUGS ILLEGAL CAUSE DRUGS ARE BAD M'KAY!" stuff like that? I agree that everyone can believe what they want so it becomes a two way street. Don't tell me believing in "fairy tales" is ridiculous when someone is trying to force what they believe on you. Two wrongs don't make a right. Then again if we can't prove something we can try to label it as a theory then some people with say "you can't label the Bible as a theory it's not a science!" So eh, you can't win them all I suppose.

Damn edits.. Okay did you see the video that a previous poster put making the resurrection a historical fact? God parting the red sea was said to be proven because they found chariot wheels dating back to the 12th Dynasty of Egypt at the place said to be the site of the passing. That's if you follow the Bible as directions; like finding Noah's Ark.

Your other two claims are irrelevant. How do you expect us to prove our first ancestors? Again one can prove God if one is willing to look around at everything that is created; look at the heavens. You can't use "oh we got war, famine, disease, etc. what kind of God would allow that?" Another irrelevant post because WE created those things, not God.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


Ok so the devil doesnt look like a red man/goat thing, but do you really believe in angels, also I think i can tell you what heaven is like, remember before you were born???? nothing, blank thats what we get to look foward to, now i am quiet spiritual I have beliefs that my spirit/soul/conciousness cannot die only our bodys its more of a buddist or pagan belief mixed in with other things and im not scared to die, if fact when its my time im curious to die and have '___' run through my brain and trip me out for a bit but I wont be meeting St peter at some gates, I know I cant change your beliefs and I dont really want to, but I cant accept people believe in this stuff, It doesent serve any good, I mean most people have a morel compass its easy to not hurt anyone physically, menatlly or economically and not destroy property, which is basically the 10 comandments, why do you need a threat or a gift to do these things and be a productive human being???



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81
 


Ok so the devil doesnt look like a red man/goat thing, but do you really believe in angels, also I think i can tell you what heaven is like, remember before you were born???? nothing, blank thats what we get to look foward to, now i am quiet spiritual I have beliefs that my spirit/soul/conciousness cannot die only our bodys its more of a buddist or pagan belief mixed in with other things and im not scared to die, if fact when its my time im curious to die and have '___' run through my brain and trip me out for a bit but I wont be meeting St peter at some gates, I know I cant change your beliefs and I dont really want to, but I cant accept people believe in this stuff, It doesent serve any good, I mean most people have a morel compass its easy to not hurt anyone physically, menatlly or economically and not destroy property, which is basically the 10 comandments, why do you need a threat or a gift to do these things and be a productive human being???


You can't tell me what heaven is like because we don't start in heaven before we are physically born; unless you can show me some source for that claim. Maybe I do know what it was like before I was born. I was part sperm, part egg, pretty easy to figure out what it was like before I was born.


It may not serve any good to you but to many it has it's purpose; and a spiritual one at that. Yes I think people have a moral compass if that's how you want to describe it. It's roughly 9 of the 10 commandments though, lol. Most people break 9 of them every day. If you don't believe the idolizing false gods doesn't really apply if you ask me.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 





You can't tell me what heaven is like because we don't start in heaven before we are physically born; unless you can show me some source for that claim. Maybe I do know what it was like before I was born. I was part sperm, part egg, pretty easy to figure out what it was like before I was born.


Ok lets get technical, a raped woman becomes pregnant and terminates the baby something I fully support, baby is mid way through second trimester, has shape, moves, even has fingernails. Does that baby go to heaven or hell??? The rapist confesses his sins and gives himself to Jesus does he go to heaven? Raped woman suffers depression and commits suicide she goes to hell, seems kinda backwards doesn’t it...



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


Neither the video, nor those chariot wheels are proof of anything. So just because there's chariot wheels at a certain spot, that proves some guy parted the seas there? No one could have just driven there? That chariot couldn't have fallen off a ferry?

And about the arch, that's the most hilarious "proof" ever. If they find it, it'll disprove the story unless it's big enough to hold "2 of every kind". Given the amount of species on the planet, that arch had to be HUUUUUGE...far bigger than anything we'd miss if we were looking for it.

And I'm sorry, but opening your eyes and looking at the sky, birds, grass and so on isn't PROOF of God. You might BELIEVE that's all God's work, but it's mere existence doesn't proof how it came into existence!

As for the slavery thing in the bible. NO, it's not just someone writing about how it was at this time. That section in the bible is expressively written as a RULE to be followed.

So what now? You can either follow some rules, but ignore others...cherry pick whatever you like so to speak...or you can be a fundamentalist and accept all rules and everything in the bible as 100% worthy of following.

That's the whole problem: If some things in the bible are wrong, or by today's standards morally inacceptable...what does that say about the parts in the bible we're unsure of? Like the existence of God?

[edit on 2-5-2010 by MrXYZ]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


Now I think about it more if I want to be literal, according to the bible all humans are inbred according to the Adam and eve story, and god effectively raped Mary and artificially inseminated her. God should be charged with rape and grievous bodily harm. I am certainly not comfortable with the thought that this god is able to in pregnant anyone, I know If I was Joseph I would have aborted Jesus.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
Neither the video, nor those chariot wheels are proof of anything. So just because there's chariot wheels at a certain spot, that proves some guy parted the seas there? No one could have just driven there? That chariot couldn't have fallen off a ferry?


Ever try to ride a ferry across a large body of water? The wheels prove that the story is true. The story of Moses dates back to the 12th Dynasty; it was thought to be the 18th but science doesn't get everything right. The stories corroborate with findings on the wheels in the sea. Whether you choose to accept that fact is on you; not me.


And about the arch, that's the most hilarious "proof" ever. If they find it, it'll disprove the story unless it's big enough to hold "2 of every kind". Given the amount of species on the planet, that arch had to be HUUUUUGE...far bigger than anything we'd miss if we were looking for it.


The ark was a reference not a claim hence the word LIKE. No need to go into an english lesson but it was a reference or comparison. Also, the amount of species then as there are now are not the same so your point is mute to say the least.


And I'm sorry, but opening your eyes and looking at the sky, birds, grass and so on isn't PROOF of God. You might BELIEVE that's all God's work, but it's mere existence doesn't proof how it came into existence!


Again, I ask, what would you consider PROOF? None, because you cant see past your nose so you won't believe and have presuppositions ready for any idea presented before you.


As for the slavery thing in the bible. NO, it's not just someone writing about how it was at this time. That section in the bible is expressively written as a RULE to be followed.


Prove this please. I would really like to hear your claim as to how you think this is false. So, I guess the slavery of the 1800s was just a rule because it was written down? You weren't there to see it all you have is written documents saying it was true, but you believe it.


So what now? You can either follow some rules, but ignore others...cherry pick whatever you like so to speak...or you can be a fundamentalist and accept all rules and everything in the bible as 100% worthy of following.

That's the whole problem: If some things in the bible are wrong, or by today's standards morally inacceptable...what does that say about the parts in the bible we're unsure of? Like the existence of God?


I never said I ignore certain rules. We're all humans we make bad decisions that doesn't mean we cherry pick things. There are some things in the Bible I don't want to follow. I don't feel like stoning my son to death when he disobeys me. We are in different times; if you want to say that not following the Bible today proves its fallacy then that's your own prerogative. I'm glad you have the whole Bible figured out though. Care to enlighten us all?



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:46 PM
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I think what people are beginning to realize is that god is always present, but that you don't have to go to church, a mosque, or a temple to reach him. Organized religion is inherently a system of control, I agree there, but to say that god is obsolete... pretty extreme.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by deenuu
reply to post by novastrike81
 


Now I think about it more if I want to be literal, according to the bible all humans are inbred according to the Adam and eve story, and god effectively raped Mary and artificially inseminated her. God should be charged with rape and grievous bodily harm. I am certainly not comfortable with the thought that this god is able to in pregnant anyone, I know If I was Joseph I would have aborted Jesus.


According to evolution we can be considered inbred if we all came from one common ancestor. Anyways, you are taking the whole inbred thing out of context. Yes, inbreeding NOW is frowned upon by God and mocked by society. You can question God's reasoning all you want but you will lose very time. He told them to be fruitful and multiply, how else were they supposed to reproduce? God could have easily made more people, but he didn't? Who am I to question God's judgement? Certainly not me, and definitely not you or anyone else. Once the population reached a certain number, then God commanded that no one shall inbred and that's when it became wrong. We can argue semantics about the Bible all you want. If you want to discuss things you don't understand we can too.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by seeashrink
 


Thanks for the reply seeashrink. We all have a different perspective, due to experiences and influences around us.

I guess my point was...when we use the word 'creator' its as if this 'something' actually 'thought' and then 'poof' something is just there now, created, out of thin air.

I use the words manifested or emanated because to me, that is my understanding of the workings of it all. Just because someone see's 'god' as a somewhat different essence, mabey more as a force that follows along orders and cycles of emanating itself (offering of the Holy Spirit)...doesnt mean that they dont believe in a higher power, a god, something that we all come from, something that without it, we would not exist.

I didnt think you really meant to say 'nothing from nothing'....sense I didnt notice the other poster saying exactly that. Some imply that God created from nothing, the void....but I dont buy that either. We see God using every day, orders, and cycles. I am not sure there was ever a beginning to emanation nor a end....but who knows really.

My best
LV



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


excellent thread! ive been trying to say this stuff too but never found the words S&F for you!



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 





According to evolution we can be considered inbred if we all came from one common ancestor. Anyways, you are taking the whole inbred thing out of context. Yes, inbreeding NOW is frowned upon by God and mocked by society. You can question God's reasoning all you want but you will lose very time. He told them to be fruitful and multiply, how else were they supposed to reproduce? God could have easily made more people, but he didn't? Who am I to question God's judgement? Certainly not me, and definitely not you or anyone else. Once the population reached a certain number, then God commanded that no one shall inbred and that's when it became wrong. We can argue semantics about the Bible all you want. If you want to discuss things you don't understand we can too.


The story of Adam and Eve is a lie, The human race would not have populated if genes are cross contaminated we would have died, There are MAJOR medical problems with inbreeding, we evolved from animals, and animals evolved from parasites, and the parasites evolved from a chemical reaction, Just like leaving a tooth in coke over night, wake up and there is fungus growing on the tooth its a chemical reaction it is proven, even the church has apologized to Darwin, a few hundred years to late but the church has accepted Darwin’s theory of evolution.

How can you say that god said it was ok to inbreed for a while and once the population increased it is now a mortal sin, do you hear how crazy you sound...



posted on May, 3 2010 @ 12:03 AM
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Religion is stupid. Hence why I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. There, I said it. Trolls welcome.



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