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Religion is slavery, and god is obsolete.

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posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:37 AM
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Again, I wanna make it 100% clear that I'm NOT bashing religion. I am probably one of the most tolerant dudes around and I truely believe every human has the right to believe whatever he wants, and whatever makes him happy.

AS LONG as it doesn't force others to limit their freedom because they feel the need to turn their speculative beliefs into laws and policies. That's when the fun ends...which is why I HATE (with a passion) Christian fundamentalists entering politics, or why I HATE Muslim extremists using religion to control their followers.

I guess I"m just tired from having to disprove sites like this one. There's so much blantantly wrong information on there, it's incredible people buy into it. Anyone who's ever had a science class at high school is able to rip that site apart.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by MrXYZ]




posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 




It's not a decent conversation because you don't know what I'm talking about so of course. If you tried to explain quantum physics to me I'd probably look at you the same way you are to me.
I've understood you fine so far...I seriously don't know where you get the idea that you're talking about "advanced", complicated, or out-of-the-box theories I can't comprehend...what you've said so far is certainty far from ground breaking, in fact, it's stuff I've heard a million times, and I've had much better debates than this in the past.



What evolution fails to teach is where life originated and the steps leading up to complex life. It doesn't teach that because it doesn't know because it doesn't have, what's that word, oh yea.. proof! Science can't figure out how the universe started and how things evolved, loosely defined.
Evolution has theories which describe the steps leading up to complex life...but I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that science has all the answers...in fact, science is far from having all the answers...and we know next to nothing about reality...please read this post I made on a science forum. Here's a small extract from it:


What do you really know? What does the human race know about reality...what do we really know about anything? As soon as one starts to talk of things not known, or little understood by science, it's instantly made a mockery of...claims of blasphemy and lunacy are made as if we know absolutely all there is to know and we couldn't possibly be wrong about anything...science is quickly becoming the new religion in its tendency to state what's right and what's wrong in relation to things scientists really don't have a clue about...the tendency to consider anything they can't explain in a materialistic fashion or can't physically measure with current scientific tools, just doesn't exist at all in their opinion...and since we're so sure it doesn't exist, we'd rather just laugh about it and ignore serious study into the subject all together.


PS- If you'll notice my signature, it states : I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance. The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by MrXYZ
Again, I wanna make it 100% clear that I'm NOT bashing religion. I am probably one of the most tolerant dudes around and I truely believe every human has the right to believe whatever he wants, and whatever makes him happy.

AS LONG as it doesn't force others to limit their freedom because they feel the need to turn their speculative beliefs into laws and policies. That's when the fun ends...which is why I HATE (with a passion) Christian fundamentalists entering politics, or why I HATE Muslim extremists using religion to control their followers.


There are always bad seeds the plant themselves every where and give their representation a bad name. That individual or select individuals may be flawed but that doesn't make all of them bad. If I remember though, Christianity is the free-ist of them all. Except those who take every word literally, I know my wife was raised that way and she has some crazy stories that made me go "people do that?" So yeah it happens but the stigma shouldn't be placed on the whole group. At least that's my opinion and everyone should have equal representation and treatment of whatever they believe.

That doesn't happen of course.....



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:44 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 




It's not a decent conversation because you don't know what I'm talking about so of course. If you tried to explain quantum physics to me I'd probably look at you the same way you are to me.
I've understood you fine so far...I seriously don't know where you get the idea that you're talking about "advanced", complicated, or out-of-the-box theories I can't comprehend...what you've said so far is certainty far from ground breaking, in fact, it's stuff I've heard a million times, and I've had much better debates than this in the past.



What evolution fails to teach is where life originated and the steps leading up to complex life. It doesn't teach that because it doesn't know because it doesn't have, what's that word, oh yea.. proof! Science can't figure out how the universe started and how things evolved, loosely defined.
Evolution has theories which describe the steps leading up to complex life...but I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that science has all the answers...in fact, science is far from having all the answers...and we know next to nothing about reality...please read this post I made on a science forum. Here's a small extract from it:


What do you really know? What does the human race know about reality...what do we really know about anything? As soon as one starts to talk of things not known, or little understood by science, it's instantly made a mockery of...claims of blasphemy and lunacy are made as if we know absolutely all there is to know and we couldn't possibly be wrong about anything...science is quickly becoming the new religion in its tendency to state what's right and what's wrong in relation to things scientists really don't have a clue about...the tendency to consider anything they can't explain in a materialistic fashion or can't physically measure with current scientific tools, just doesn't exist at all in their opinion...and since we're so sure it doesn't exist, we'd rather just laugh about it and ignore serious study into the subject all together.


[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]


Well I got 4,000 characters to prove a point and I don't feel like going through multiple sources, and posts, to prove one point so I keep it short, sweet, and to the point. That's what most people want anyway unless otherwise specified. Then again who wants 10 dollar words when a $.25 word works just a good?

You excerpt post makes sense too and I agree with it. I would wager a guess that is just human nature and we can't grasp things outside reality, or our personal reality. Like some believe aliens exist and I'd laugh at that, hypothetically speaking, and then there are people who laugh at me for believing in God. That may be a poor comparison but I think it fits your excerpt.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


And I just want to make it clear that science may not have all the answers...but I believe it is possible for science to uncover most, if not all mysteries of the universe given enough time...absolutely everything can be understood and explained in my opinion...no matter how abstract and complex it may be...

EDIT: If God does exist, even "he" could be rationally and logically explained, and integrated with science and our model of reality.

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 


And I just want to make it clear that science may not have all the answers...but I believed it is possible for science to uncover most, if not all mysteries of the universe given enough time...absolutely everything can be understood and explained in my opinion...no matter how abstract and complex it may be...


I just want science to be truthful instead of someone BS'ing because they don't have the answer. It's more honorable and understanding to say "I don't know, but I'll find you an answer!" then saying some fairy tale to sell the population on because they want to believe in something other than God. That seems to be the main argument for some theories which is not for the right reason. We should be concentrating on ourselves and the planet and worrying less about where we came from. It's an important question but not one to divide the populace because someone believes something you do not.

I think there is a reason we only use 10% of our brains. At least I think it's still 10% and I haven't found any sources stating otherwise.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:56 AM
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reply to post by Kaytagg
 


Good post.

Starred and flagged.

Religion has outlived it's usefulness.

Many people cannot distinguish between being religious and being spiritual, the two are totally separate.

IMO - All the religions were fabricated to control and manipulate humanity.

So much bloodshed, war and murder committed in the name of "god".

We are all drops of water and "god" is the ocean - we are all that interconnected.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by Kaytagg
 


Good post.

Starred and flagged.

Religion has outlived it's usefulness.

Many people cannot distinguish between being religious and being spiritual, the two are totally separate.

IMO - All the religions were fabricated to control and manipulate humanity.

So much bloodshed, war and murder committed in the name of "god".

We are all drops of water and "god" is the ocean - we are all that interconnected.



Yeah, in a way but that depends on your belief and standards. I can understand how that works if you don't believe in a supreme being. If you are a believer then it's obvious it's the devil working the human emotion and psyche to create war and separation of Church and God. All part of his plan to steal more souls! So I relate to both being as I used to argue both sides. I guess things make more sense once you've understood both sides of the argument.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 




We should be concentrating on ourselves and the planet and worrying less about where we came from. It's an important question but not one to divide the populace because someone believes something you do not.
Exactly....your dead right...and I don't think science is officially "Atheist"... A lot of scientists are religious...and science isn't trying to tell you God does or doesn't exist...evolution doesn't have to mean a God doesn't exist...and it seems to me organized religions are the main entities going around and pushing beliefs onto people...which in response causes to Atheist to flame up because they think you're teaching lies to every body...which you probably are...but that then doesn't give them the right to claim God doesn't exist...does science officially claim God does not exist? I believe if God does exist, "he" didn't directly design and create us...I believe "he" was the spark of light, the energy, the source if you will, of the big bang and everything in our universe...the rest was left to nature, time and probability...and in this scenario science is sill correct about a lot of things, including evolution...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent

We are all drops of water and "god" is the ocean - we are all that interconnected.



This is beautiful. As well as it is my thoughts exactly.

But a beautifully constructed metaphor that was



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:08 AM
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The premise of the OP works for me.

Religion or god/s has/have never made sense to me, even considering my background as a 'Preacher's Kid'.

As my parents said: "*If you bring your children up to think for themselves, you have to accept that they will think for themselves".

[edit on 2-5-2010 by aorAki]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 




We should be concentrating on ourselves and the planet and worrying less about where we came from. It's an important question but not one to divide the populace because someone believes something you do not.
Exactly....your dead right...and I don't think science is officially "Atheist"... A lot of scientists are religious...and science isn't trying to tell you God does or doesn't exist...evolution doesn't have to mean a God doesn't exist...and it seems to me organized religions are the main entities going around and pushing beliefs onto people...which in response causes to Atheist to flame up because they think you're teaching lies to every body...which you probably are...but that then doesn't give them the right to claim God doesn't exist...does science officially claim God does not exist? I believe if God does exist, "he" didn't directly design and create us...I believe "he" he was the spark of light, the energy, the source if you will, of the big bang and everything in our universe...the rest was left to nature, time and probability...and in this scenarios science is sill correct about a lot of things, including evolution...


Right and that's why theistic-evolution seems to be so strong. It gives the best of both worlds. It gives you spiritual comfort in your God and lets you use science to prove it. Now most scholars suspect that the earth wasn't created in 6 literal days because the Hebrew word for day "yom" can be a literal day or an age/period of time or ages. I really think the theory is a stretch of the imagination and you're right when some scientists are creationists or believers, take your pick. I think the number is 40% but that number is always rising and falling. Our bodies and everything is quite complex to be left to chance so I'm sure He gave it a nudge if anything. Some things we just will never find out because we weren't there ourselves and no science will figure it out. Unless we figure out time travel but that's just a creative imaginary idea. Then again anything is possible.

One day we all will know what happens. Me personally, I'm just trying to increase me odds and the Bible seems to be the only defined way to go.


If not, I lived a good life and that's okay too.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 




One day we all will know what happens.
Haha...that we will...so what's the wager?!? Jokes...




Me personally, I'm just trying to increase me odds and the Bible seems to be the only defined way to go.
Would that really make you a true Christian? Seems to me you're only in it for the reward at the end...the fear of Hell, and the desire for eternal life in bliss...greed and fear will rule...the downfall of man...I don't know if you read this on page 7, but I hope you take this in:


And I find it's just as arrogant to say God doesn't exist, as it is to say he does exist IMO...so I just go about my life, being the best person I can...and that's all I can do...if God does exist...I just hope that's enough to get into Heaven...or at least avoid Hell...if that's not enough, I don't think I would like God or Heaven anyway...if such a place and entity really exist...


[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:26 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 




One day we all will know what happens.
Haha...that we will...so what's the wager?!? Jokes...




Me personally, I'm just trying to increase me odds and the Bible seems to be the only defined way to go.
Would that really make you a true Christian? Seems to me you're only in it for the reward at the end...the fear of Hell, and the desire for eternal life in bliss...greed and fear will rule...the downfall of man...I don't know if you read this on page 7, but I hope you take this in:


And I find it's just as arrogant to say God doesn't exist, as it is to say he does exist IMO...so I just go about my life, being the best person I can...and that's all I can do...if God does exist...I just hope that's enough to get into Heaven...or at least avoid Hell...if that's not enough, I don't think I would like God or Heaven anyway...if such a place and entity really exist...


Yes but we know that's not the way to get into Heaven. No amount of good works saves your soul. You must believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is your Savior and ask for forgiveness of your sins to be saved. So yeah, I guess you could call it a fear of the afterlife of an eternal burning in Hell. That doesn't mean I'm not afraid of anything in this life because everything is only temporary so why worry? I mean if you step back and look, sure it sounds whack-o to believe in someone we've never met. That's why it's called faith, again, regardless if the Bible was cannoned by man. Someone had to do it. Just because a flawed creation did it doesn't detract from its value and meaning. Again, just my opinion.



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:28 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 


I did edit my last post...but I'll add it to this reply, because it's relevant to what you just said and you may have missed it:

There are people in secluded locations that will never hear of God or the bible...let alone the English language (or any other language of the bible)...and you can't tell me God will punish these people because they don't know about Jesus, and haven't accepted him as their savior...and God only knows how many sins they commit daily purely because they don't perceive it as a sin. And don't tell me that's why it's a Christians mission to spread the word...because you will never spread it everywhere...

EDIT: And what about the people you've already missed...unlucky for them...they just have to burn in Hell for eternity because God is infinite in his mercy...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 


I did edit my last post...but I'll add it to this reply, because it's relevant to what you just said and you may have missed it:

There are people in secluded locations that will never hear of God or the bible...let alone the English language...and you can't tell me God will punish these people because they don't know about Jesus, and haven't accepted him as their savior...and God only knows how many sins they commit daily purely because they don't perceive it as a sin. And don't tell me that's why it's a Christians mission to spread the word...because you will never spread it everywhere...

EDIT: And what about the people you've already missed...unlucky for them...they just have to burn in Hell for eternity because God is infinite in his mercy...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]


Yeah, I did miss the edit.


Okay to answer this it's sad but true. You know how sometimes we have to accept the truth even if it's a painful truth? Well I think this is how it sort of relates because there will be unfortunate people who will never have heard it due to location or whatever logical reason. That's why God command's us to spread the word so we can reach those who have never heard His word and save their souls. I'll show you where it says this in the Bible, even if you know, just so you know I'm not making it up.

So this is technically what you are saying and is mentioned in the Bible.


Romans 10:14 says;
How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?


And the answer is simply;


Romans 1:20 says;

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.


Would you agree the word of God, in general amongst all monotheistic religions, is EVERYWHERE? Not literally, but you can find it any where if you look for it. Sure some people don't have internet or t.v. or radio but that's why we have missionaries. My wife's parents are missionaries to Honduras and they are a 3rd world country. Honduras, not my in-laws, although that could be a nice joke for later.


But it says here that we need to witness to others as a commandment. Do we all do it? No but then again does anyone listen to everything they are told to do?


Galatians 3:24 says;
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


Again, it's unfair and it's a painful truth but one we all have to eventually accept regardless of faith.

Here is a video of a simple witness that is quite easy and I think people who believe should do instead of being forceful. Whether you believe or not I think it still shows us who we really are as humans.




[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 




You know how sometimes we have to accept the truth even if it's a painful truth? Well I think this is how it sort of relates because there will be unfortunate people who will never have heard it due to location or whatever logical reason. That's why God command's us to spread the word so we can reach those who have never heard His word and save their souls.
But you can't possibly think you'll get to everyone, or have everyone believe merely because you go up to them with a book and tell them it's real...I don't see why they should actually believe what you have to tell them...in fact, I'd suggest they didn't believe it...if God is everything and everywhere, why can't he just inform these people him self? He would rather them burn in Hell for eternity because they live in a secluded area...and he would rather them burn in Hell simply because the person chooses to be rational and use logic, and decide there is no proof for any organized religions, whilst they all claim to be right...if I were God I would reward that person for not being a fool...IMO, God would never send any conscious being to eternal suffering...and "he" would NEVER threaten you with such a thing...



would you agree the word of God, in general amongst all monotheistic religions, is EVERYWHERE? Not literally, but you can find it any where if you look for it. Sure some people don't have internet or t.v. or radio but that's why we have missionaries.
I bet you could find HUNDREDS, if not thousands of tribes and townships that live in highly secluded areas that have never heard of God, and never will...you have to think realistically, and if God would really go about things in such a way...what the bible states, makes absolutely NO sense AT ALL...it's utter manipulation at its best...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by novastrike81
 




You know how sometimes we have to accept the truth even if it's a painful truth? Well I think this is how it sort of relates because there will be unfortunate people who will never have heard it due to location or whatever logical reason. That's why God command's us to spread the word so we can reach those who have never heard His word and save their souls.
But you can't possibly think you'll get to everyone, or have everyone believe merely because you go up to them with a book and tell them it's real...I don't see why they should actually believe what you have to tell them...in fact, I'd suggest they didn't believe it...ff God is everything and everywhere, why can't he just inform these people him self? He would rather them burn in Hell for eternity because they live in a secluded area...and he would rather them burn in Hell simply because the person chooses to be rational and use logic, and decide there is no proof for any organized religions, whilst they all claim to be right...if I were God I would reward that person for not being a fool...IMO, God would never send any conscious being to eternal suffering...and "he" would NEVER threaten you with such a thing...


Remember my original post when I was saying that when Moses lead the Israelites from Egypt that God took the form of a cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night? How he gave them passage across the Red Sea by parting it and how he gave them manna and water when they are thirsty and starving? They still didn't believe in him as evidence to them worshipping a golden calf while Moses went to receive God's law on top of Mt. Sinai. Even if you give undeniable proof people still will not believe. You know that's true, not in just religion, but in a lot of things. That's how it goes and it's one of those painful truths that's hard to swallow.

It's taken me a bit of time to understand this but the more I pay attention the obvious it becomes. I'll do my best to reach out to as many people who are willing to believe. If not then we are wasting each other's time.

[edit on 2-5-2010 by novastrike81]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by novastrike81
 




Even if you give undeniable proof people still will not believe.
If given undeniable proof, it will undergo scrutiny and peer-review, and if it's truly undeniable, they'll have no choice but to conclude its legitimacy. Thus far, I've seen nothing that even comes close to being evidence the bible is legitimate of the Christian God, let alone any God, actually exists.


You know that's true, not in just religion, but in a lot of things.
Yes, I know it's true...but not for religion...because organized religions simply have no proof of their claims except usually a book which matches their claims. You've provide a few sub-standard quotations so far...nothing ground breaking or amazing, and certainly not evidence of anything...until you can provide me with something substantial that can be taken seriously, organized religion has absolutely no backing except faith, faith in what humans tell you is the truth...and as we all know, humans don't know $#!7! Nor would they tell you if they did...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]



posted on May, 2 2010 @ 05:14 AM
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Originally posted by CHA0S
I bet you could find HUNDREDS, if not thousands of tribes and townships that live in highly secluded areas that have never heard of God, and never will...you have to think realistically, and if God would really go about things in such a way...what the bible states, makes absolutely NO sense AT ALL...it's utter manipulation at its best...

[edit on 2/5/10 by CHA0S]


I forgot to add to this part so I will add just in case you edit. You are correct that are HUNDREDS, if not thousands of people that have never heard of the word of God. It's up to us to get to as many as we can before the time comes. It even states in one of Jesus' prophecies that everyone will have access to His word.


Matthew 24:14:
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
It's clear that with the technology we have that it's easier to preach the Gospel. In some areas we need to physically go to, like the tribes.







 
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