Young Aussie genius whipping NASA in Moon Hoax Debate!

Originally posted by ppk55
If you're not interested in debating how they can and have found Moon and Mars rocks on earth, Antarctica specifically, then you really shouldn't be participating on ATS. Why don't you take the time to read the full post above and watch the videos. It won't hurt you.

Funny, I had a similar opinion on every occasion you and your little crew of miscreants ignore the scientific rebuttels to your deeply flawed theories. I see that now you have (slowly) come to realise that you don't have a chance in hell of ever winning an argument based on scientific fact, so you're now resorting to discussions that cannot be proven one way or another as proof of anything while doing your upmost to skew them as much as possible in order to try and put forward your points.
So metorites can be found on the Earth that originated from the Moon, try telling us something we don't know. I feel sorry for you if this is somehow news to you and can't help wondering why you even bother trying to discuss anything astronomy related when you consistantly demonstrate your lack of understanding in the subject.
The attempts being made here of trying to imply that the lunar rocks (which you were basically trying to imply don't exist before) are now simply meteorites that have been found is pathetic to say the least.
I still find it curious that time and time again you fail to address the specific points that have proven your previous points to be incorrect, why do you keep avoiding them? Could it be... because you wrong? I think it is somehow and so do the majority of people reading this thread.
The best response achieved has been some sort of dismissive remark that the data is invalid without a specific rebuttel involving calculations or figures, which in science is necessary to prove a point.
Face it, you're a nobody. You've probably underachieved immensely in your education and you're fed up with being looked down on by the people asking you for extra large portions of fries everyday, so once you've finished your shift you come on here and pretend your someone. You're not, you're insignificant and nothing more than an irritation, you're not onto anything, you don't know any big secret, you're not smarter than most and you're opinion is never going to matter to anyone. The Government isn't going to 'come and get you' because you're onto them and the only reasons anyone here acknowledges your presence is because it would be irresponsible to allow some of the younger more naive people who may read the thread think you may have a point.
Now instead of whining that people arn't answering the points you and your friends have recently brought up, try living by these standards and answering the various points brought up over the last few weeks you keep doing your best to avoid.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
your little crew of miscreants ignore the scientific rebuttels to your deeply flawed theories.

So you've ignored the previous page of debate.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You don't want anyone to read the post about how they've discovered Moon AND Mars rocks in Antarctica ?
Fair enough, it is devastating to the Apollo believers.

By the way, what part/s of the professors speech do you disagree with? Or are you like the previous posters who didn't even bother to watch how they discovered Moon / Mars rocks in Antarctica.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by jra

Again, I remind you about the Constellation Program. But going to the Moon is very expensive and requires a lot of political and public support, if there isn't much, then it simply won't happen.

Im glad you brought this up, I've been meaning to cover this as well.
Ready for another Apollo "truth" to crash and burn?

I'll Spend Your Tax Money the Way I Want to Whether You Like it or Not!

Because of the on-going dispute over the future of human space exploration, I have been reminded of the longstanding perception that in the 1960s NASA’s Apollo program enjoyed great public support. That is a misconception. The belief that Apollo enjoyed enthusiastic support during the 1960s and that somehow NASA has lost its compass thereafter still enjoys broad appeal . This is an important conception, for without the active agreement of political leaders and at least public acquiescence no exploration effort may be sustained for any length of time.

The level of popular support that most people believe the public held for the Kennedy decision to undertake the Moon landings are, therefore, perceived as something that must be gained for the present space exploration agenda to succeed. Repeatedly a chorus of remorse for the lukewarm popular support enjoyed by specific space exploration activities is followed with a heavy sigh and the conclusion, “if only our current efforts had the same level of commitment enjoyed by Apollo, all would be well.”

Apollo—wrapped as it was in the bosom of American virtue, advocated by the most publicly wholesome of astronaut heroes, and hawked by everyone from journalists to Madison Avenue marketers—enjoyed consistent popularity. There is some evidence to suggest this, but it is, on the main, untrue. From the 1960s to near the present, using the polling data that exists, there is little evidence to support an expansive lunar exploration and colonization program. One must conclude from these results that the United States undertook and carried out Apollo not because the public clamored for it during the 1960s, but because it served other purposes. Furthermore, this polling data suggests that should the United States mount another human mission to the Moon in the future it will also be because the mission serves a larger political, economic, or national defense agenda.

While there may be reasons to accept that Apollo was transcendentally important at some sublime level, assuming a generally rosy public acceptance of it is at best a simplistic and ultimately unsatisfactory conclusion. Indeed, the public’s support for space funding has remained remarkably stable at approximately 80 percent in favor of the status quo since 1965, with only one significant dip in support in the early 1970s. However, responses to funding questions on public opinion polls are extremely sensitive to question wording and must be used cautiously.

So lets not use budget and public support as a whipping boy for the inability to land men on the moon this day and age... OK?

reply to post by ppk55



PPK, once again you read, but you don't comprehend. Blinded by the FERVENT desire to be "right' about Apollo....when you are shown to be WRONG EACH AND EVERY TIME!

Now, thanks to the spamming and subject-changing (and inadvertently, PROOF of Apollo) by Foos (although that obviously wasn't his intention, but HIS failure at reading comprehension is fairly evident as well).

"JARRAH WHITE" is either a bloody idiot (because, by now, anyone with two neurons to rub together can see his crap videos posted on YouTube for the pure drivel that they are) or else, he delights in punking, fooling, (insert your favorite Aussie idiom here to describe) having a go at gullible people.

I'm not sure...because IF he is a "genius" (as thread OP contends) then he certainly doesn't show any of that capacity in the videos....he does show one example of "genius" though, I suppose. Much like any person who manages to fool an audience so cleverly.....circus pioneers Barnum and Bailey come to mind, for example.


Thanks to Foos, he merely dribbles out more pablum, and YOU bought it, hook line and sinker....with this new (actually, it isn't "new") 'argument' about Antarctica. The fact that idiot(?) J. White attempts to bamboozle people with his fluff videos means that, as I suggested, either he is too stupid to know any better, or is counting on his audience to be too IGNORANT of science and specifically this rather obscure aspect of the field of archeology. The knowledge of meteorites that have survived entry through the atmosphere (because they were large enough initially, not to be completely consumed by the friction, and heat generated) and have a remainder land on Earth is NOT "new" information ---- for anyone who bothers to pick up a science magazine, or even watch any variety of science documentaries.

If you wish, I could provide a BLOW by BLOW account of exactly where, when and how often J. White goes south in his "arguments"....but, that really won't be necessary IF you just bother to fully read the links, that not only Foos, but you, yourself, have snipped and cited already. NOT just the mined quotes, but in their entirety.

When you've finished with that, then do some more research, and tell everyone HOW MANY, and by WEIGHT, meteorite fragments have been collected, just from Antarctica (hint: I spotted a reference that said "about 30"), and THEN compare to the total amount of material returned via the Apollo missions.

Also, along with that research, look into the conditions encountered by the "rocks" as they entered the atmosphere, and when subjected to those extreme temperatures, determine (from the sources) what sorts of changes they underwent that make them VERY distinguishable from the Apollo Lunar samples, collected by hand, and returned aboard the CM capsule, sealed hermetically in the collection containers, that preserved the in situ vacuum conditions on the Moon's surface.

Finally.....in the decades since the meteorites were first discovered (not only in Antarctica, mind you ---- but, because of the conditions there, most that have managed to land on that continent have been better preserved, at least in the last few thousand years --- in the "deep freeze" conditions. Other parts of the planet, they are subjected to much more erosion, and are less-well preserved. Keep in mind, as well, that the planet is 3/4 WATER!).

....since they were discovered there, and it was realized that they were extraterrestrial in origin, their ACTUAL point of origin was open to conjecture. Since, there were no KNOWN samples from anywhere else, not the Moon, not Mars, not an asteroid, to compare. ALL the geologists could do is, knowing the extent of samples, and varieties that exist on Earth, they could determine that what were found in Antarctica were NOT like anything formed on this planet (not ever found, nor seen anyway....and you'd think that a large consensus of geologists would know their stuff, even if they disagreed now and then. People make CAREERS out of many fields, and no one person can be expert at them all --- so, colleagues discuss, and reach educated conclusions).

The composition of any meteorite sample (and they can be confidently determined to have been subjected to the high temperatures of entry through the atmosphere) showed only (prior to Apollo) that they arrived from off-world. AFTER Apollo, then comparisons could be drawn, and some meteorites determined to be likely of Lunar origin.

Mars?? Well, there are no confirmed examples of Martian rocks here on this planet....only the scientific equipment onboard the robotic probes that have landed there, to compare with. However, there IS a great deal of agreement amongst those learned people that a few examples are very probably from Mars...they don't resemble anything formed here, and they don't resemble anything from the Moon (now that we know so much more about our closest neighbor).

Speaking of "close neighbors" ---- it helps, in the way to visualize the orbital and celestial mechanics responsible for any off-world meteor impact to occur, when you recall the organization of the Solar System. For the most part, the "deepest" gravity well will be the Sun...in the "center"....most mass, and hence, highest gravitational pull.

Also, one has to remember the EARLY Solar Systems' violent past, and the millions (billions? Hundreds of billions?) of collisions that occurred as debris was "swept" clean by impacts. The meteorites that are found here have likely been in space for millenia....the Moon, since it's closest, likely would have a greater number of objects that originated there, blasted off the surface by ancient, violent impacts....BUT, the "thing" that hit the Moon, too, would be fragmented, and the pieces that flew off, to hit the Earth later, could all be mixed together.

Same with Mars....or, something that may have originated in the Asteroid Belt. Or farther out....drawn inwards, perhaps, because of the "gravity well", orbiting for who knows how long, until eventually, by pure chance, collision with Earth.

For all we can surmise, there could be debris still out there that began its journey from Venus, or even Mercury. Just as there are likely pieces of the Earth too, hitting other bodies. It is never going to be possible to know every detail, of the entire ~4 billions years (or more) of the Solar System's existence. BUT, learning, exploring, and investigations and study will get more answers than sitting in one's home, watching stupidly IGNORANT Apollo "hoax" videos made by some 20-something know-nothing....or even a 60-something know-nothing. BUT, J. White IS that 20-something.....and he's a virulent pest.

Every country has their "village idiot" example, du jour....We have Sarah Palin, and Australia has Jarrah White.....








ANYONE who has

Originally posted by ppk55

Originally posted by AgentSmith
your little crew of miscreants ignore the scientific rebuttels to your deeply flawed theories.

So you've ignored the previous page of debate.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You don't want anyone to read the post about how they've discovered Moon AND Mars rocks in Antarctica ?
Fair enough, it is devastating to the Apollo believers.

Wow

Do you guys have some sort of 'Ultimate Quote Mining Championship Award' you're all fighting for?

What I actually said in context was:

Funny, I had a similar opinion on every occasion you and your little crew of miscreants ignore the scientific rebuttels to your deeply flawed theories.

I wasn't talking about the meteorites originating from the Moon, which I address seperately when I said:

So metorites can be found on the Earth that originated from the Moon, try telling us something we don't know. I feel sorry for you if this is somehow news to you and can't help wondering why you even bother trying to discuss anything astronomy related when you consistantly demonstrate your lack of understanding in the subject.

How embarrasing for you that your only method of argument is to quote mine and lie, because you have no valid point

I've noted your sudden interest in the meteroites originating from Mars, I take it you are taking note of this so you can deny the Mars mission in 2030?

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Do you guys have some sort of 'Ultimate Quote Mining Championship Award'

When you say something you say it, regardless.

What is amazing is how a professor can find Moon rocks and Mars rocks on earth, specifically Antarctica.

If they can find Moon / Mars rocks on earth, then how how do we know they came from Apollo and not from Antarctica?

This seems to be a subject no one wants to talk about judging by the last page of responses.
Come on, let's talk about it without insults or derogatory remarks.

The detailed video from Professor Monica Kress is posted above.
www.physics.sjsu.edu...

Dr Monica Kress
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy
College of Science
San Jose State University

edit on 6-10-2010 by ppk55 because: grammar correction