im incredibly sick of christians slapping a satanic sticker on everything they dont agree with

reply to post by ashanu90

so if iwere to follow bhudhism or the viking beliefs or the ancient sumerian beliefs to the letter than i would go to heaven?

Well I don't watch oprah. So I don't know what she sounds like.
However if you got this idea from something I've said. It could only be a mis.
I guess that's ok though. Why shouldn't the truth be interpreted as a lie.
What's the difference to someone who dosn't want to know the truth.

and i imagine you leave my threads with a smile because of the thought "that moron is going to hell"
soooooooooo christlike of you

Hey, I was asleep and couldn't answer that! No, that's just not it.

First of all, I've trained myself above the slander of labels. Moron, Fool, Idiot, Retard etc. are no longer words I would use to describe anybody (and haven't been for some time); I might judge some ideas as "retarded", or a certain behaviour as "foolish", but not the people. If you want an instant conflict, just call someone by a label that judges their entire net worth under the confines of a single label. It's counter-productive, completely irrational, promotes hate, tramples human dignity, and continues to divide and conquer people for no good reason.

It only needs pointing out a few times, and people start to realize it too.

As for going to hell, God will judge, not I. Judge yourself instead of other people and it willl be a better world.

I agree that music alone will not draw most people away from God, although I'm just guessing, a shot in the dark because I don't know what "most people" listen to. Another generality Ashanu. However, music is not always a passive effect, and it spreads ideas, especially ideas amplified by powerful emotions, so let's not disqualify how effective this is - especially on youth. It's actually very dumbed down to say that music isn't a strong shaping influence on peoples lives.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

K J Gunderson would you care to share your proof that "no it isn't and no it doesn't ". If you do not want to share I COMPLETLY understand. A lot of times if it does not fit in their nice pretty box some people discard it as trash. Not your view at all of the biblical text I am sure.

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

K J Gunderson would you care to share your proof that "no it isn't and no it doesn't ".

You are asking me to prove a negative and then pretend to be interested in logic and truth?

If you do not want to share I COMPLETLY understand. A lot of times if it does not fit in their nice pretty box some people discard it as trash.

Have any proof "Harry Potter" is not historicallly accurate and proven by science? If you do not want to share, I completely understand.

Not your view at all of the biblical text I am sure.

You made the claim that it was historically accurate and blah blah blah. It is not my job to prove any claim you make false. It is your job to prove your claim is true.

reply to post by K J Gunderson

"You made the claim that it was historically accurate and blah blah blah. It is not my job to prove any claim you make false. It is your job to prove your claim is true."
Ah but dear sir. You made the claim that it was a lie. I have read the book and yes it is historically accurate. It names many people and places that can be found in other historical documents other than the bible. Egyptian pharohs, Roman emperors, cities, land marks and a score of other things which prove it is authentic.
I am afraid that the burden of proof does indeed fall upon you. I think what you called my previous post was "blatant lies" if you are going to accuse someone of lieing then you must be able to prove it, if you can, if not then you are slandering and "spewing blatant lies yourself. Now let's see if you can actually answer a question instead of answering with a question.
HMMMM....does not seem that I fit in your pretty little box either.

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

"You made the claim that it was historically accurate and blah blah blah. It is not my job to prove any claim you make false. It is your job to prove your claim is true."
Ah but dear sir. You made the claim that it was a lie.

Ah but dear you, no I did not. You claimed it was historically accurate and I said it was NOT. You need to prove your claim. You know very well that a negative cannot be proven and that the burden lies on the person making the positive claim.

I have read the book and yes it is historically accurate. It names many people and places that can be found in other historical documents other than the bible.

So do Stephen King books. Are they historically accurate?

Egyptian pharohs, Roman emperors, cities, land marks and a score of other things which prove it is authentic.

You are smarter than that, aren't you? Yep, places exist. Earth exists. Does that mean every story that takes place on Earth is true? Again, explain Harry Potter to me then.

I am afraid that the burden of proof does indeed fall upon you. I think what you called my previous post was "blatant lies" if you are going to accuse someone of lieing then you must be able to prove it, if you can, if not then you are slandering and "spewing blatant lies yourself.

That is a pretty weak way to weasel out of having to back up your claim. You made the claim, now prove it. That is how things work.

Now let's see if you can actually answer a question instead of answering with a question.

Nope. Not until you go back and answer mine. You have not even addressed my questions, let alone attempt to toss a question at me in response. Do me that little favor and see how it all works out.

HMMMM....does not seem that I fit in your pretty little box either.

What pretty little box is that?

reply to post by Northwarden


ok thats not what you meant so i apoligize for misenterperetation,
but i do not think judas priest is going to make people worship the devil

lure away people from "god"? it can be viewed like that but how about we use the phrase opens people to new ideas, people go to a metal concert to see their favorite bands and maybe mosh a little,
not eat babies and take part in ritual human sacrifice,
you wont find those those things at a marilyn manson, judas priest, venom, cannibal corpse, gwar, or even a mayhem concert.

the reason you guys view it so wrong is because you take your faith as absolute fact and these things are different from your ideologies
some of you get extremely offended over opinion and disagreements

just my take on it
and maybe i have made some generalizations i apoligize.
also i am not satanic i am athiest
so dont get confused over that

reply to post by K J Gunderson


good point ive heard that arguement before just because certain characters in the bible are proven to be real doesnt mean the stories in the bible are real

there are plenty of fictional books with real charachters
the book of morman has some characters that were real
joeph smith or wahtever
does that mean mormanism is the correct way?

Its plain, pure and simple, its all about control, all religions in one form or another is about control, take a good look at them, you will see control at the base roots of all beliefs....For those of you WHO do believe in a god I offer a simple and honest bit of advice... NO MAN OR RELIGION SHOULD GET BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD.

reply to post by randyvs


randys quit speaking in parrables just say what you mean
your saying all religions of the world are connected so following any path should get you to heaven, because if not if the heavenly powers gave these religious ides to men all over the world then why would they lie?
if they are all connected why does islam christianity and judiesm (not even counting the denominations) all say "follow my path or go to hell"
well except the jews they dont believe in hell do they?

reply to post by Quadrivium


whats the point of praying if god knows your heart and whats on your mind and your intentions why do you need to pray?
its pointless

and it sounds like magic mumbo jumbo to me

[Nothing worse than watching Christians repeat these kinds of blatant LIES in order to convince people their god is real. No it is not and no it does not.
Here is where you took over the burden of proof my friend. Instead of asking me to prove it you called it lies. This gives the impression that you know facts that would dispute what I said.
You can not prove a negative? A student of folk logic perhaps?
You can prove a negative, and it’s easy, too. For one thing, a real, actual law of logic is a negative, namely the law of non-contradiction. This law states that that a proposition cannot be both true and not true. Nothing is both true and false. Furthermore, you can prove this law. It can be formally derived from the empty set using provably valid rules of inference. (I’ll spare you the boring details). One of the laws of logic is a provable negative. Wait… this means we’ve just proven that it is not the case that one of the laws of logic is that you can’t prove a negative. So we’ve proven yet another negative! In fact, ‘you can’t prove a negative’ is a negative so if you could prove it true, it wouldn’t be true! Uh-oh.
I said that the bible is historically correct. Many people places and land marks are written about in other writings from around the same time. I did not say that the Red Sea Parted, that fire rained down from Heaven, or that the sun stood still in the sky. These things I do believe though through FAITH.
I can and will give several of many references to back up what I said just to make you happy
1) Flavius Josephus (c. 37–c. 100), a Jew and Roman citizen who worked under the patronage of the Flavians, wrote the Antiquities of the Jews in 93 AD. In these works, Jesus is mentioned twice. The one directly concerning Jesus has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum.
In the first passage, called the Testimonium Flavianum, it is writtcalled it en:
About this time came Jesus, a wise man, if indeed it is appropriate to call him a man. For he was a performer of paradoxical feats, a teacher of people who accept the unusual with pleasure, and he won over many of the Jews and also many Greeks. He was the Christ. When Pilate, upon the accusation of the first men amongst us, condemned him to be crucified, those who had formerly loved him did not cease to follow him, for he appeared to them on the third day, living again, as the divine prophets foretold, along with a myriad of other marvellous things concerning him. And the tribe of the Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day.[44]In the second, brief mention, Josephus calls James "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ."[48] The great majority of scholars consider this shorter reference to Jesus to be substantially authentic,[49] although a minority has raised doubt
2) Pliny the Younger (c. 61 - c. 112), the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused to worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus".
Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ — none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do — these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshiped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.[60]

reply to post by Quadrivium
CONTINUED:
3) Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus (c. 69–140) wrote the following in his Lives of the Twelve Caesars about riots which broke out in the Jewish community in Rome under the emperor Claudius:
"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he (Claudius) expelled them from Rome".[73] The event was noted in Acts 18:2. The term Chrestus also appears in some later texts applied to Jesus
4) Thallus, of whom very little is known, wrote a history from the Trojan War to, according to Eusebius, 109 BC. No work of Thallus survives. There is one reference to Thallus having written about events beyond 109 BC. Julius Africanus, writing c. 221, while writing about the crucifixion of Jesus, mentioned Thallus. Thus:
On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book of History, calls (as appears to me without reason) an eclipse of the sun.[82]
5) Lucian, a second century Romano-Syrian satirist, who wrote in Greek, wrote:
The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day — the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account… You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.[83]

6) Nebuchadnezzar (ruled c. 605 B.C.-562 B.C.) was an important Babylonian king whose Biblical significance lies in his destroying the First Temple in Jerusalem and starting the period of Babylonian Captivity.
Sources for Nebuchadnezzar include various books of the Bible (e.g., Ezekial and Daniel) and Berosus (Hellenistic Babylonian writer).
7) Cyrus the great, was the one to conquer the Chaldean (Babylonian) Kingdom (in 538 B.C.),.
Cyrus is mentioned 23 times in the Old Testament. Books mentioning him include Chronicles, Ezra, and Isaiah. The main source on Cyrus is Herodotus.
8) Maccabees is the name of a priestly Jewish family which ruled Palestine in the second and first centuries B.C.E.

9) Herod Antipas, a son of Herod the Great, was the ruler of Galilee and Peraea from 4 B.C. - A.D. 39.
Sources: Gospels and Jewish Antiquities of Flavius Josephus.
10) Pontius Pilate has come down in history because of his role in the execution of Jesus. Pilate (Pilatus, in Latin) worked with Jewish leaders to put on trial a man who posed a threat. Pilate's actions with respect to Jesus are recorded in the Gospels. Harsher critiques of him can be found in the historical writers, Josephus, Philo, and Tacitus. Pontius Pilate was a Roman Governor of Judaea from about A.D. 26-36. Pilate was recalled after he slaughtered thousands of Samaritan pilgrims. Under Caligula, Pilate was sent into exile where he commited suicide in about 38.

reply to post by ashanu90

ok thats not what you meant so i apoligize for misenterperetation,
but i do not think judas priest is going to make people worship the devil

No worries, and thank you. So far as Priest goes, I still like a few tunes of theirs, but I want to point out, that the default state of our society is to like what we consider Luciferian. It takes a weeding out of society to actually appreciate that, so I could explain. Picture a Buhddist monk, and envision what their ascetic lifestyle must consist of - one of humbleness, meditation, and a foregoing of worldly possessions in favour of the lifestyle they have found. Is that a fair examination? There's more to be said, lots more, but those are some key traits you can point out.

Christianity isn't much different for many. It can lead to that same kind of lifestyle, and the thing to note is that in both lifestyles, modern culture in all its ways which present themselves as infantile, are sacrificed for the search of something "better". By better, I would have to define culture, to see where it is degraded in a moral or proactive perspective, and to say
better, is to mean more chivilrous, educational, purified of its evil elements, and beneficial to our development, which is in harmony with the health and development of others. There is benefit in caring for ourselves, we are billions of cells put together, with intricate working subsystems, and all of those cells have lives we are caretakers of. Others are the same, like it or no, respectful of that fact or no, and who are we to harm another who is such a caretaker also? It does take a new depth of perspective once you do away with senseless violence, which is arguably the biggest symptom of problems we have.

Bill and Greg have an arguement over what show to watch, and bloody each other up, but become great friends after and the audience has a laugh. ... Millions of cells just died. The caretakers laugh? It really is sick.

Fred is 60, with diabetes, and drinks diet soda. He's heard about aspertame but shrugs his shoulders; it's his life after all. Problem? the soda has aspertame and will cause his brain very bad damage in a matter of years. Tinfoil hats can kill you.

Helice listens to thrash metal her whole life, and parties with her friends as often as possible. They get wasted as every patriotic weekend warrior should and occasionally get their Christian friends to live it up a little and get a life. Poor chumps, now they know what they are missing!

Maybe you see something wrong with the last scenario, maybe not. Maybe you see my points, maybe you overlook them. In summary though, music promotes lifestyle, and encourages the over-riding of logical and good lifestyles, while employing maximal emotions to evil intents among many a band. It takes a certain strength of character to see past it, to see past labels and actually consider the subjects deeper. I listen to music on a lyric for lyric basis, to see what they're saying. I can excuse some, but not an entire song that is obviously counter-productive to our lives! As Matthew Good says "Come and be joyful, cus that # spreads"!

Anyone who realizes what I just posted in the "happy thread" is going to brand me bad now, I know it To explain, I'm feeling a bit better now.






[edit on 28-4-2010 by Northwarden]

reply to post by ashanu90

What's the point of praying you ask?
To speak with your Creator one on One. To tell Him your deepest fears or ask that someone be healed from sickness if it is His will. I have had many prayers answered. I pray for strength when I am at work and tired, I pray for understanding when I am confused, I pray that He will help me stay on the straight and narrow. In truth I pray about many things and praise Him in prayer as well. You are right though He does know our hearts and souls. By us talking to Him and praying we show that we believe and that we are willing to set that time aside to enjoy His presence.
No need for expensive therapist either lol. We as Christians (well some Christians) are able to give our burdens to the Lord and not worry about them. Prayer can be a very powerful thing my friend. There is not any magic mumbo jumbo involved.

reply to post by Quadrivium


can you prove that all those books were not made up by the church to spread their religion?

reply to post by ashanu90


your Joking right?


you think that Historical books that are studied by historians as a great source of education to be made up to spread religion?.......

Originally posted by the illuminator
reply to post by ashanu90

 

your Joking right?


you think that Historical books that are studied by historians as a great source of education to be made up to spread religion?.......

yes, im not saying history books in total ae made up, but they could be and that would be a perfect excuse to spread a religion
you dont take every little thing you read in a book as fact do you?
i mean fiction writers use real people and real places in their works all the time dont they?
another thing asssume your a christian and you beleive in the nwo and tptb dont you think they could rewrite the bible to suit their agenda a long time ago? thats what i would do if i were them

blind faith is ignorance

Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

can you prove that all those books were not made up by the church to spread their religion?

Read the post again. You may notice that a couple speak out against Christ and that was the reason I included them.



[edit on 28-4-2010 by Quadrivium]

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by ashanu90



Read the post again. You may notice that a couple speak out against Christ and that was the reason I included them.

yes i am aware that some speak against jesus, its difficult make something believable with out some one opposing it can you?