Homeless Hero Stabbed, 25 People Don't Help

reply to post by airspoon

Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.

One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.

As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.

He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"

The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."

"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.

To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."

Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"

At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "It made a difference for that one."

Source: The Starfish Story by Loren Eisely


[edit on 25-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings


Look, I get your point and I even understood it before that nice story. The point that I was making though, is that how do we not know that the people who passed by the "homeless hero" didn't stop at the fuy after him, or even the guy before him? We don't know.

Now, in relation to your story, those were starfish, a harmless little fish and the man throwing them into the surf was obviously on a beach with the extra time to help these starfish. Starfish can't seriously harm you. Starfish also won't sue you if you throw it into the surf the wrong way. You can't be imprisoned for throwing the starfish down if it attacks you. Also, most of those starfish could care less whether they were thrown back into the surf or not, or at least they don't have the free will to decide that they want to stay beached.

We are talking apples and oranges here. Not only are you exposing yourself to a probable attack by stopping to help the homeless, especially if your untrained to do so as many of them are mentally unstable but you are also exposing yourself to imprisonment or even loss of life. Quite different from throwing starfish into the surf. Also, alot of these homeless people do not realize that they need help, or don't want it alltogether. There are plenty of homeless shelters and charities that work with the homeless and chances are, if you are homeless in Queens, you are going to know about many of them. Personally, I don't blame these people for not going to a homeless shelter as many of these shelters are dangerous or have crazy rules, but that is besides the point. The point here is that not only are there thousands of homeless in NYC who pass out on the curb, but many of them are dangerous or the system makes it dangerous to help them. We can't blame those people for walking by and minding their own business. The same people who walked by, probably walked by at least 20 others in the same apparent situation, maybe they didn't want to get hurt. Maybe they didn't have the time that day to even take the chance. We simply don't know. I do however know that it is foolish and dangerous to walk up to homeless people and shake them as many of them are mentally unstable, unlike starfish. "Please don't shake the homeless people". Furthermore, because it is common to see homeless people passed out on the street, many people most likely didn't want that poor guy to be harrassed and/or jailed by the police.

When I first moved to New York, I tried to give a homeless guy the lunch that had packed for myself, for the day. It was something like a store bought flatbread with hummus, some rice and beans and a canned tea that was wrapped up in a white or brown paper bag. I thought I was being nice as he was begging for change and said he was a veteran. I am a veteran also so I always try and help fellow soldiers. Anyway, this guy just freaked out and threw it at me and then continued to pursue me down the block, threatening me, saying that I had poisened the food or something. He was clearly mentally unstable and delusional. If he would have attacked me, I could have gotten hurt. If I fought back, which I certainly would have done, I most likely would have gone to prison or at the very best, payed for a high priced court defence to prove my innocense with only a small chance of winning my freedom. There was no "hate-crimes" law back then but if there was and I had to defend myself, even a high priced lawyer wouldn't make a difference as I would be modern-day lynched by the public.

Starfish are one thing while the homeless population, many of whom have mental problems (the reason they are homeless in the first place) are something entirely different, especially when you can go to prison for defending yourself against one. Don;y hate the messanger, hate the system that makes it so.
--airspoon

a social psychological phenomenon that refers to cases where individuals do not offer help in an emergency situation when other people are present.

If someone in the same situation worn an expensive suit...would the result been different ?...

Some of those people's actions were truly despicable. Like the man who lifted him up to discover the blood and just left him there after that.

The person who took the cell phone shot and then left is another compassionate hero too.

I think this happened for a reason. So that folks like us who read about this wont behave the same if a similar event occurs.

People did not help because of the machine in their heads:

www.primitivism.com...

This false self is observable in the frozen facial expressions, stereotypic gestures, and unexamined behavioral patterns of the general public. This false self determines much of our everyday lives, so that we are seldom the origin of our actions. We lapse into the false self at the first sign of danger, under stress, or simply because it is the path of least resistance. In this unthinking mode of social role playing, we internally reproduce our own oppression.

reply to post by pai mei


While I don't agree with your assessment as it petains to this particular incident, I do agree with the premise, at least for society on a much broader scale. Great video too!

--airspoon

reply to post by Tykonos

He may had been lying in a pool of blood but could that have been seen easily?

I've helped a few people out that have been so drunk they couldn't stand up let alone walk, yet I can understand why people do leave them. Being accused of stealing their money or getting a whole load of abuse doesn't make you wnt to do it again.

Heard about the law enforcement agencies? If someone is so drunk that he/she can't walk, should the ambulance, or law enforcement agencies be called to come and rid them of public areas? They are dangerous to themselves and others..

It is not about drunks etc etc. It has much to do with the lack of moral with in mentioned society. When morals decrease, trust becomes a big problem.. Check it out..

This reminds me of when I used to live in NY, about 10 months ago, and I was waiting for the 7 train. A man fell in the tracks and couldn't get out. I didn't know what was going on because I had my ipod on but when I saw people screaming and pointing at the tracks I went to find out what was going on. The people around were just pointing and saying call 911. I understand why. It's very dangerous to go on the tracks because you can get electrocuted.

I then saw the train approaching. The conductor was not going to stop because he didn't know what was going on and he couldn't make out what people where doing, and he also couldn't see the body in the tracks because it was half way stuck between cracks or opening of the tracks as he stated afterward.

I looked around and saw women crying and men putting their hands to their heads. The conductor slowed down when he saw me making an attempt to jump to the tracks but was not stopping. I then jumped, I was about 50 yards from the train, and started waving at the conductor to stop. He did and at that moment a police officer arrived and asked me why I was down there. I told him as I picked up the man, who was drunk, and passed him to him. He told me I did a good thing and to give him my name and number because he was going to reported to the news so I could get credit for what I did. I said no and left. The news did come out as "unknown hero saves man and leaves the scene".

My point is that while the man was going to die, people was just there lamenting what was going to happen without no one making an afford to help.

Well I can honestly say that's NYC!!! But on a serious note it is sad.. I was on the train one time and this guy was on the floor and he wasn't a bum or anything. He was dresse in slacks with a shirt and tie and people just acted like he wasn't there. So at the next stop I signaled to the police that this guy was knocked out or something. And you know the nerve of people to get pissed saying stop holding up the train... WTF? It took like half a minute for the police to take him off the train. Turns out he was drunk or something.

reply to post by -Thom-


This is quite true. I'd read about the 'bystander effect' last year, then I went to a music festival and on one night I noticed a young man laying in the mud and rain, not moving, and everybody was just walking past him. Because I'd heard of the bystander effect, I decided to do something, and I went over to him and woke him up. He'd passed out due to too much drink and/or drugs and after I shook him a little, he shakily got up, picked up his six-pack of beer and wobbled away towards the camp site.
I always wonder since then, if I'd not woken him, would he have been there all night in the pouring rain, possibly drowning in the mud puddle as he was on his stomach?!

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Tykonos

 

He may had been lying in a pool of blood but could that have been seen easily?

I've helped a few people out that have been so drunk they couldn't stand up let alone walk, yet I can understand why people do leave them. Being accused of stealing their money or getting a whole load of abuse doesn't make you wnt to do it again.

Heard about the law enforcement agencies? If someone is so drunk that he/she can't walk, should the ambulance, or law enforcement agencies be called to come and rid them of public areas? They are dangerous to themselves and others..

It is not about drunks etc etc. It has much to do with the lack of moral with in mentioned society. When morals decrease, trust becomes a big problem.. Check it out..

Don't ever go on a night out in Manchester UK, you could spend half your night dealing with really drunk people.



i do get what you're saying, I just thought in that video clip, some of those people that walked by may hvae thought the guy was drunk, kinda his own fault. If there was visible blood then there is no excuse.

I remember seeing a guy getting beaten up in a busy street, I was the only one who went to help him and stop the attack, even whilst I was doing so, no-one came to help me or backed me up, they just looked and walked by.
I did feel anger towards them afterwards but I put it down to that they didn't know what to do. I trained as a kick-boxer so I didn't give it a second thought.

Maybe, helping your fellow citizen in situations like that should be taught in schools.

This just demonstrates that there are no alpha human beings left. IE humans capable of thinking for themselves and taking action. All i see around me are beta-humans not capable of thinking critically, discerning information, making decisions without seeking others approval. Where are the fellow alpha's?

these stories hurt and anger me to the deepest levels. how can no one care? why is it more convenient to not give a crap?

I would never let this happen, I couldn't live with myself without knowing I did everything I could.

and yes, this is a fantastic comparison to kitty genovese.

Sure is a puzzling and tragic situation.

My question, like the Kitty Genovese question, was why no one called the cops? and then I thought, it's easy to blame everyone around. Could it have something to do with the cops themselves?

Has anyone here considered that maybe someone did call the cops and it took that long for them to respond?

consider that unless it is an anonymous call, the police can check the caller for outstanding warrants, tickets, etc. This has been done in certain parts of a west coast city if they are called by inhabitants of that neighborhood, so people are hesitant to call them now.

I don't understand the woman though unless she did make a call and it wasn't answered.

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not insulting, judging or making any other offensive remarks.

I do find a bit intriguing that when something like this happens in some Asian/African country, everyone starts to make judgment calls and making racist remarks about "why those countries are so poor, and why people behave like animals".

But when something like this happens in the heart of modern civilization (New York...which is....NEW YORK), it's just "how our society works today" and it's "too dangerous to help someone like that".

It's funny how close-to-home problems are so much easier to justify than the problems outside our country.

Since we are having fun posting moral stories, here is a portuguese "joke" about hypocrisy:

Maria was out on vacation for a week. She comes back and wants to hear about the news. So her neighbor starts to tell her what has happened in the last week.

N: 300 people died in China in a Earthquake on Monday.

M: Really? Well. They are so many that it doesn't even make a difference. *laughs*

N: 150 people lost their houses in a flood in England..

M: Oh, poor english people. They have a bad weather up there.

N: 75 people lost their jobs in a fire in France..

M: My god... I hope they can find a solution pretty quick! Those people can't live like that!.

N: 10 people died in a car crash in Spain.

M: That makes me so sad. Those highways are getting more dangerous by the day. I'll send a letter to some families.

N: 2 people are missing after a boat accident in Algarve (south of Portugal).

M: Damn! I'm so angry! People don't play it safely when they are on vacation! They should be more careful! I'm joining the search and rescue effort.

N: Oh...and Lucy broke her finger yesterday while shopping..

M: OH MY GOD! Is she okay? Does she need help? I better call my cousin who is a lawyer, and my uncle who is a doctor! I'm going to call her right now! This is so upsetting... A person gets back from vacation and this happens!.

Take it like you wish.

reply to post by Tifozi


That's all fine and dandy and I some-what agree with you that most people are like that, since we tend to care more for things/people that we have a deeper connection to. It's kind of the same reason why you will morn the death of a friend/family member but not someone else whom you may not know. Humans have been that way since the beginning of recorded history but what we have here, in this particular instance, is really non-significant. Basically, what it boils down to, is a bunch of people walked by a homeless guy lying in the street, in NYC of all places. In this city alone, this happens everyday to millions of people. The only difference is that this guy happened to be severely wounded and on his "death-bed", which in of itself isn't even that uncommon. The only reason that this story had traction is because the guy got hurt while performing a heroic act, which it's certainly reasonable to suggest that the passers-by were completely unaware of. While this story is tragic, it really is insignificant because all we can really deduce, is that a bunch of people walked by a homeless guy (probably a bunch of homeless guys) lying in the street, in NYC of all places, completely unaware of any and all pass deeds, both heroic and/or sinister, of the victim in question.

--airspoon

I just saw the vid on CNN and I gotta say that it's quite disgusting! It's hard to believe that we as a society believe that were more "civilized" then the rest of the world when seeing something as ugly as that... Shame on those that did nothing and shame on those that feel that nothing should have been done. If empathy is beyond some peoples ability just simply imagine yourself in that situation. Wouldn't you want someone to help you out if you were lying there dying? It's quite simply barbaric. If we continue to let apathy rule our nature then truly were spiraling into a dark place.

reply to post by airspoon


There you go again.
You expend a lot of energy (multiple posts) in writing that there is no way that anyone should bother themselves with a seemingly "dirty" person with a little blood leaking out from under their torso.

You also admit that the "dirty" person jumped up to stop an anonymous woman from being attacked by a knife-wielding assailant. If that person who was attacked was someone important to you, would you still feel the same way?

Is it possible that you may be trying to shake off some guilt by posting repeatedly that those lying in the street don't deserve a second look, because they may hurt you? Maybe you walked away and someone croaked that you knew?

In case you say, "well you haven't lived in the big NYC like I have" as in your previous post, well try living in Mexico City, D.F. for 1.5 years as I have. You ain't seen nothin' like that.

P.S. I'm glad you're not my neighbor. People like you are why this kind of thing perpetuates. Get a grip, help someone that you don't know and who can't repay you. You might like it.

P.S your signatures make no sense.

[edit on 27-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]

reply to post by 1SawSomeThings

In succession,

First of all, your trying to put words in mouth. I never suggested that people shouldn't help "dirty" people. I could care less how clean anyone is. Also, you have no idea whether blood was oozing out from underneath him and it's a wild assumption to make. Even if a little blood was oozing out from the torso, that doesn't mean that people actually saw the blood, at night and on an already dirty street. You are falsely suggesting that there was an obvious blood pool with no evidence to support that wild claim.

Also, I did not admit that anyone was dirty although you apparently did. Your suggestion that I am labeling him or other homeless as "dirty" is only a shameless ploy to try and discredit me and my stance as to imply that I have some type of prejudice or disliking of homeless people.

I was not trying to imply that those lying in the street should not get a second look. My point was simply that a homeless man lying in the street is very common and there was nothing out of the ordinary as to alert people that something was amiss. There are literally tens of thousands homeless people in New York with a large fraction who pass out on the street. People in this thread seem to be blaming all the passers by without putting the situation into context. There was nothing out of the ordinary. To the passers by, it was just another drunk passed out on the curb. They probably passed 10 - 20 others in the exact same seeming condition. Unless you witnessed this guy getting stabbed, you are not going to think that anything is out of the ordinary with him. This isn't Smithville, PA where it would be strange to see someone lying facedown in the street.

Just picture yourself coming into the city, in a seedy neighborhood at that, at night. You may have just walked out of a pub and you are walking back to your hotel. Are you going to stop for every homeless person you see lying in the street? If they don't respond to your verbal calls, are you going to try and shove this stranger to see if he is okay? First of all, you will have about a 10% chance of not getting into an altercation and possibly assaulted if you try to physically shove someone. Second of all, you will be there all night trying to check on every homeless person within the blocks back to your hotel. You might as well of not even reserved a hotel since it would then be your mission to check on the many homeless. Now, if you happened to walk passed one and that guy was actually dead but you didn't notice because nothing was unusual, could we then blame you for not doing anything?

Look, I don't care where you have lived. I was merely suggesting how in NYC, it is very common to see homeless people lying in the street and so nothing would seem amiss to any passers by if one of those homeless were actually dead. It's not about helping anyone as I am always happy to help anyone, whenever I can. The point here is that these passers by, probably didn't even know that help was needed as nothing was really out of the ordinary. Is it really that difficult to understand? There was nothing to suggest that this guy was any different than everyone else lying in the street that night. It really has nothing to do with whether he was homeless or not.

Please don't use those shameless tactics to suggest that I am against homeless people, such as claiming that I'm calling them "dirty" or basing my assertions on their cleanliness. Your hole premise is based upon the assumption that everyone who walked by, knew that this guy was in imminent danger. That premise is flawed because it requires a very far fetched assumption. People are to quick to judge by their emotional reaction, instead of using logic and reason. At first glance, it is upsetting but after it is put into context, you see that it's just media sensationalism, playing on emotions.

reply to post by airspoon


Wel hell, I guess as long as your so sure of yourself I'll give you the win.
You've written enough pages after all. To the people who walked by while that homeless guy was trying to save that woman even though he did not know her, well I'll give them the win too.

And if someday I walk by and don't notice you bleeding, or you me, that's OK. Cause you might try to hurt me since ......whatever...

Please save yourself the trouble and don't write anymore long-winded self-defensive posts. I won't respond to a lost cause, because you don't see what I'm sayin' either.

See ya'