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Homeless Hero Stabbed, 25 People Don't Help

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posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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We can't really say what people saw or didn't see.

Anyone ever lived in NYC? You ever messed with a bum? It's a good way to get stabbed or something. Bums are like Billboards, eventually, you just don't really see them anymore and get used to see them sleeping (many times passed out) different places.

I don't think there is enough to say this is strictly a moral judgment.

Add to that the psychological predispositions of people to not get involved in other people's drama, and you have the makings of some bad situations.




posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 10:21 AM
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I would just walk on by too! Think about it people before you go calling the passer byes monsters...(Thats what I have noticed about allot of ATS users, you just don't think things through before assigning blame!)

Even the firefighters were slow to help the man, seems to me all the blood was concealed under his body not visible to them or the pedestrians, they didn't want to go rolling over a possible drunk/addict passed out on the sidewalk and get slugged in the face, stabbed or worse...
This is NEW YORK CITY!!! Not your sleepy little subdivision!



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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This lays bare the notion of what a "civilized" society is. NYC is considered by many to be the height of culture.

Here is the reality. It is the pinnacle of indifferent depravity where "citizens"
will not un-holster their cell phone to call for an ambulance.

Where I live a knife-wielding attacker would have been put down like a rabid dog, with bullets, and real citizens would have provided aid until paramedics could arrive.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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Passers-by are not an organized group. Any attempt to organize without notifying the authorities is against the law. Further, people are not qualified to help a bleeding man. They wouldn't know how. Further, there are cases when those who needed help later sued those who helped them, because of their incompetence. You have no guarantee that the man who is lying in a pool of blood is not a human shark who will sue you for your last penny if he gets a chance. Further, if you are caught near this apparent victim of violence, you may get accused as a suspect of a crime. Further, people may have no idea what the hell just took place and don't want to get involved. The society has special services to deal with such situation (where was the police, anyway?). Further, in the society of spectacle, people are conditioned to WATCH and not to ACT. That is the ultimate goal of society, to passivize and disable people from acting on their own. Passers-by have no authorization to act as medics or police.

There are tons of reasons, some social and some psychological, why people in most cases don't act as Samaritans, especially in alienated, urban environments. Many people are too busy surviving themselves, nobody will stop to help them. That's the way it is. Conditioning, above all.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 10:57 AM
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But what about the woman he saved, i can understand teh rest, but shewas involved.

I thoought some americans would do the polite think and piss on the man and put it on youtube, after years of watching things like bumfights, or jackass.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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This exemplifies the system of greed in this nation, creating a system of The Haves and The Have Nots.

There are the Haves working not too far away from this incident on Wall St. earning millions in bonus money alone, above and beyond their salaries, all while the company itself claimed that it was too big to fail and requiring bailout money from working class Americans.

And the opposite end of the spectrum we've the have nots that not only don't even have a place to call home, but are categorically substandard second class citizens and because they are "Smelly and Homeless" are allowed to bleed to death in their own puddle of blood and die.

There is a God and I do feel that this pour soul is with him now and in a much better place than this egotistical #hole of a society that we live in where your material wealth translates to your worth in society.

Rest In Peace.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Tykonos
 




However, could some of the people that ignored him simply mistook him for being drunk?

Firstly he was lying on a pool of blood..

Secondly even if someone was drunk, but for what ever reason, if I see that guy laying on the ground I would do something about it.. It is retarded of people to be so ignorant, hence ignore everything surrounding them... People get alcohol poisoning, remember?

Just an hour ago a girl got beaten up by one of my neighbors, she couldn't even walk.. I didn't leave her there on her knees coughing and crying, I went and helped her..


He may had been lying in a pool of blood but could that have been seen easily?

I've helped a few people out that have been so drunk they couldn't stand up let alone walk, yet I can understand why people do leave them. Being accused of stealing their money or getting a whole load of abuse doesn't make you wnt to do it again.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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This is heartbreaking. I cant/dont understand this mentality. Dont want to toot my own horn but the one thing I pride myself in is that I have stepped up. Probably bcuz I act before I think, which has caused me a ton of trouble thru out my life. I remember picking my son up from school when a older kid was beating up a much smaller, younger boy. I looked around and was amazed that none of the parents were doing anything but watching. My 1st thought was why isnt anyone helping this kid and realized I was one of those ppl. I got out of my car and ran to help the little guy who was pushed down in the street so hard his shoe flew off. When I ran up the bigger boy had stopped but started to cry when I chased him away. Wanna know what he said?? 'but thats my brother'. He got owned verbally in front of his buddies and slunk away bawling. I was disgusted with the other parents and wondered why they didnt feel the need to help this little guy, especially him being all of 11.
Now, this has gotten me in trouble more than once. Our friendly neighborhood drunk was beating his wife in the parking lot as my husband and I drove into our driveway. I remember bolting out of the car before it even stopped. My poor husband, lol...he's yelling at me to stay out of it...again. I pulled her away and told her to call 911 and of course he promptly dotted my eye. My lack of forethought and probably stupidity has helped others, if not myself, lol.
My mind, my heart cant understand the lack of empathy towards those who obviously are in distress and need help. This poor, poor guy, bless his heart. How many look upon the homeless with contempt. Theyre summed up by their circumstances. He didnt have to do this as I'm sure he hasnt been treated well by society himself. I think we can all learn a lesson from this gentlemen and if, if, if, there is a God I hope He's rewarded in kind.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by higns07
 


That is normal behavior in NYC. In Boston they would have checked his pockets for valuables as they walked by.

Thank God most of the rest of the country is nothing like that. NYC has been that way as long as I can remember. I think it comes from living in a giant sardine can, on top of each other.

You will likely find those walking by are all Progressives. Sorry had to get that in. Only half sorry though as the most disgusting cities are always overrun with them. In a conservative city, the ambulance would have been there in under five minutes and a dozen people would have helped him.

For example. My Wife was recently in a wreck. Within three minutes five cars stopped, two of them called me to inform me what happened and both offered to testify in court against the lying little teenage prick who caused it. All that within minutes. That would never happen in a progressive city, ever.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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Poor guy.. It makes me sick nobody helped him. . If i was there, i would be on the phone with 911 in an instant.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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I am just amazed that some american did not piss over his dead body and film it and put it on youtube. Thats how far your country has gone from the worlds point of view.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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Welcome to the jungle. The concrete jungle, law of survival of the fittest, just like the beasts of the field. Most don't even understand the concept of what separates us from the animals. Many of the replies here underscore that. Most would not piss on someone if they were on fire.

It's not just in the northeast or other countries, in TX I've seen cars driving past a injured person lying in the road.

You don't have to be a hero to pick up the cell and dial 911, or use a foot to see if the poor dude is still alive.

At least I realized a long time ago what kind of "society" I live in. Keep your blood kin close cuz no one else gives a $^!+.



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by merkaba93
Where I live a knife-wielding attacker would have been put down like a rabid dog, with bullets, and real citizens would have provided aid until paramedics could arrive.


Amen, that is what America is supposed to be about.

People like that are losing ground everyday, I would be surprised if we last another 2 generations



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
I am just amazed that some american did not piss over his dead body and film it and put it on youtube. Thats how far your country has gone from the worlds point of view.



Now I'm sorry I posted what I did. You have never been to the US, have you?

All large cities worldwide are cesspools. The country does not matter. Most of the US is wonderful. Why people all pile on top of each other in big cities escapes me.

Tell me what large city you live near and I'll dig up dirt on it for you.

Going through life hating people you don't know must be a miserable life?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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I think that most people just figured that this man was either drunk or all "drugged-out" and nobody wanted to get involved. It's not uncommon to walk around here and see people passed out from drugs and/or alcohol.

There are a lot of bad things that can happen when you approach anyone that you don't know. You could either be attacked by some crazy guy who didn't want to be bothered/woken or you could even be sued if you make a mistake while trying to help. You never know what could happen so I assume that most people simply stay out of it. If we were allowed to arm ourselves or even protect ourselves, it would be a completely different story but because we have to rely on the police to protect us (or try to protect us), most people take the wise option and just stay out of it all together.

If you approach this guy and he attacks you, you have one of two options and neither of these options are attractive. The first option being that you could try to get away with the least amount of damage to your person and property and suck up the losses or the second option is that you could fight back and be arrested and most likely sent to jail. If you fight back and kill or seriously injure the guy, it is then up to you to prove your innocence, which could be very costly and time consuming and then you still only have a chance of making it out of court with your life/freedom.

Most people might say, "well, it is self-defense so you won't go to jail" but it is up to you to prove that it was self-defense, which would be extremely costly, stressful and time consuming and then you still only have a small chance of winning your freedom. No longer is it that you are innocent until proven guilty, but rather, the other way around.

If you do not mind your own business and this person attacks/robs you, god help you if you are a white male and the guy happens to be of another race, particularly African-American. If you then decide to defend yourself, you will most likely be charged with a "hate-crime" and any notion of a fair trial is out of the window. You would then be done.

My point here is that if you don't mind your business, some very bad things could happen and life as you know it would/could very well change and not in a good way either. Most people are very wise to not interject if it doesn't directly affect them. I wish this wasn't the case but it is, at least here in New York City, though I'm sure it's like this everywhere in America to a certain extent. I wish that we could be able to arm ourselves for protection. I also wish we could protect ourselves, whether armed or not, without fear of our freedom being taken away from us. If our justice system even worked a tad, this might be possible but as it stands today, one would be an idiot to put themselves into a position that could either end their life or their freedom and almost surely their wealth. The sad fact of the matter is that our justice system doesn't work, our Constitution is now meaningless and TPTB are looking for any reason to throw you into prison. Why give them a reason by doing something as foolish as interjecting yourself into someone else's business?

As for why nobody called 9/11, if he was just drunk, high or just sleeping, why call the police and have him arrested? If he isn't hurting anyone by lying there, I'm sure no one wants this guy to lose his freedom.

Having said all of that, I'm truly sorry that this hero was murdered, as it shouldn't have happened. While I can understand why most of those people walked by without offering help ( for the reasons stated above) or interjecting themselves into something that didn't concern them, the guy who actually did shake the hero and see the blood has no excuses for not helping. He already interjected himself and saw that this guy posed no physical threat to himself. The only reason I could think that this guy didn't help this hero, is that he didn't want to be sued. Just my 2 cents.

--airspoon



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


If someone looks dead or almost so, and they are lying in the street, and you call 911 to get them looked at, it's no skin off your a$$. It won't cost you a dime and you don't have to even kick them to see if they're alive!

So quit making excuses and start looking out for your fellow man. Everyone's got a mother, father, brother, sister or even a cousin who would give a damn. Maybe you could be the one who puts the poor sick individual in touch with those possible loved ones.

People: quit making excuses for not giving a damn about your less-fortunate neighbors.!!!

Edit: my post about caring took way less time than the one I was replying to. Any thoughts?

[edit on 25-4-2010 by 1SawSomeThings]



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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A little off the beaten path, but going with the discussion. The people who live in the cities, is this something that awareness in schools might help? I imagine that the goverment has always thought of ways to help, but we always know that has a probability of only 25% for coming through.

To my dismay, as this threadbviously goes on, the more and more I hear, the farther and farther my heart sinks. So I thought I add this in, because I think is a completely plausible idea.

First, here is some background.
Homelessness Costs More than Housing

HUD analyzed the costs associated with providing services to 342 newly homeless families in Kalamazoo during the 18-month period. The study found that, on average, it costs $1,614 to house a family in an emergency shelter per month, compared with $813 per month for transitional housing and $881 per month for permanent housing.


This study was done in six different cities. And as you can see, they realized shelters costs 2x more than transitional/permanent housing.

With that thought at the back of my mind, let's provide transitional/permanent housing more often. Anyone see how shipping containers can be converted to housing now? Well what if NYC did this somewhere (obviously the land would need to be found)?

Amsterdam Student Housing

Obviously they don't have to be that good looking, but imagine it. I see hope in it, obviously there are flaws, but I'm just trying to throw some ideas out there. This project for student housing, known as the Keetwonen Project, cost an estimated $32,054,122.

I know it seems expensive, but wouldn't it be better to do things like this then not try to fix the problem at all?



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by 1SawSomeThings
 





If someone looks dead or almost so, and they are lying in the street, and you call 911 to get them looked at, it's no skin off your a$$

While I agree with that, this is NYC, where you will pass 50 different people just like that. Most people assume he is either, hi, drunk or just sleeping. If you call 9/11, they will most likely send the police to harrass the guy, if they do anything at all. Why would you want this poor guy to get harrassed by the cops? Does he not have enough problems if he is already homeless? I personally, don't want to see anyone go to jail or get harrassed, if they didn't impose on my liberties or initiate force against me. People most likely figured that they wouldn't get this poor guy in trouble for being passed out on the sidewalk. Why take his freedom away from him too?



So quit making excuses and start looking out for your fellow man. Everyone's got a mother, father, brother, sister or even a cousin who would give a damn. Maybe you could be the one who puts the poor sick individual in touch with those possible loved ones.


Yeah, it's not that easy. Have you ever been to NYC or any big city for that matter? Why try and rehabilitate him and not the guy on the next stoop or block? How could you blame people for walking this guy lying on the street but not the next 20 passed out homeless people? If your business is to help the homeless, that's one thing but to be an ordinary person, trying to help every homeless person you encounter, it would take all of your time, especially in NYC. I don't have the time for that, though many charities do and it is too bad that one of those charities didn't pass this guy in that exact moment. You have to remember here, that this most likely wasn't the only guying lying on the street looking dead and at any given moment in NYC, you'll pass 50 people like that on a 4-5 block walk. Are you going to stop and try to help all of them? There is no way really to tell which ones might be dead and which ones may just be asleep and not only would trying to figure it out take all of your time, but you are also begging for trouble by doing that. Most of them don't even want to be helped. By interjecting yourself, you are only asking for trouble, especially how our system works. If you feel so passionately about it, move here and start helping these homeless drug addicts and drunks, as you may have the time, courage and foolishness to do it. Maybe you will find someone who is lying in the street, bleeding, and wanting help. Most likely, you won't come across this, you'll find yourself defending your person and property.

You can't blame most of these people for minding their own business. You can't blame them either for not calling the police over to harrass this guy because chances were that he wasn't dying, but rather that he was sleeping or drunk. If he was sleeping, calling the police wouldn't be helping him at all. This article does not take into account all of the other homeless people up and down the street in the same apparent condition?

You should not condemn others' actions, if you don't have the whole story. There may be a perfectly logical reason for these people not interjecting themselves into the situation. You also shouldn't condemn them if you didn't do anything to help either. If you think that all the homeless people in NYC that are sleeping on the street should be helped, then you come up here and spend all of your time on trying to help a small percentage of them. Be prepared to spend all of your time, as there are thousands of them and also be prepared to be assulted, arrested, yelled at to "mind your own business" or even sued for making a mistake. You don't realize how many homeless people pass out on the street and/or park, here in NYC.
--airspoon



posted on Apr, 25 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by 1SawSomeThings
 



Double post.

[edit on 25-4-2010 by airspoon]



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