Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Originally posted by bkyle
The Zeitgeist crowd seem to be unable to explain a concrete model of how it will lack any forms of units of measurement of value or resources.
They are unable to explain one because there intentionally isn't one. There cannot be one. As soon as objects have "value", then we all just go back to fighting over who has the most, why I don't have enough, why you deserve more, etc.
Imagine a system of true abundance for all of humanity's needs. If food, shelter, education, medicine, and all the needs we have can be produced in abundance for all, then there value is zero.
You still haven't explained anything new.
It's all based on an unproven notion that there will be endless resources, and endless energy. These things don't exist. The technology to replace petroleum based products doesn't exist, and I'm not talking about gasoline and diesel.
The machines to figure it all out and dictate to us how much we can use, and how we dispose of things, to ensure the abundance doesn't exist.
ZP isn't real, it's sombody's IDEAL. It's utopian, and without being based on real things it's doomed to become dystopian. There's no way around this. And worst of all they're trying to set it up globally, where everyone and everything is subject to the oligarchy of humans that will have to operate it until they get their global 'Skynet' system, if that's even possible, and then it might be smart enough to ration etc where humans absolutely are not.
So, without all that, there will need to be something that represents your consumption of the utopia. Just saying there wont be isn't an actual model. That's more akin to rejecting the idea of needing a model of a proposed complexsystem. Economics isn't simple, nor is resource management, and all the rest that goes with any society, let alone the entire world.
And never mind the pollution that would happen if every month a faster CPU is manufactured and everyone decided they want the new one even though their 'old' one is still good. That is just one tiny example of the absurdity of all this. Having to save money is a good thing in many ways: you only get the best you can afford, but more importantly only as often as necessary. If all people were upgrading their computers just for the sake of being able to do it each month, the waste disposal this world would be up against would have us all already living in a post apocalyptic waste land.
[edit on 10-7-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]
Utopian is a weird word. Because a utopia would be very dys-topian because it would be static which would be a nightmare and NOT Utopian.
But we DO have things like Artificial intelligence that has more CPU power than the human mind and in ten years time will have 500 times the power of a human mind in accordance with moores law. So we do have the machines today. We have things like nanotechnology that will lead to nanomachines and nanofactories that could make things without any human labor. It's an Interesting subject which is beyond politics. It's Technology. The world is on the cusp on a major breakthrough that will either send us into what we could call Utopia or Oblivion.
Just my thoughts on what I have read.