If you are something through and through yet completely deny it to all extremes it seriously calls into question your motives.
The founders and official materials of this movement explicitly claim to be different from Communism, yet their items of reference lead to...
How does The Venus Project compare with Communism?
Communism used money and labor, had social stratification, and elected officials to maintain the communists' traditions.
*The reality of the "money" is that they were units of measurement, like what they call "credits" in dystopian scifi films. The Zeitgeist crowd
seem to be unable to explain a concrete model of how it will lack any forms of units of measurement of value or resources. In being unable to do so
this is a total pipedream as this couldn't be more critical in the entire idea of it all.
*The key premise of communism is the end of social classes (social stratificiation). There is absolutely no debate here, unless of course you don't
know anything about communism. This is an outrageous lie!
*The only one that's 'shaky' is the bit about elected offficials. My asnwer to this issue also applies to the issue of "labor". Under ZP, a total
machine takeover which they promote would make this statement 'true'. Nevermind that the technologies for this don't even exist meaning we'd have
no choice but have human operators of the system 'for now'. If they weren't elected how far would this system go in the real world? Since if we
were to implment this system today humans would be centrally controlling it (i.e. Soviet Union), to say that it wouldn't have human operators would
be a lie.
Classless society refers to a society in which no one is born into a social class. Such distinctions of wealth, income, education, culture,
or social network as might arise, in such a society would only be determined by individual experience and achievement. Since these distinctions are
difficult to avoid, advocates, such as socialists, communists, etc. of a classless society propose various means to achieve and maintain it and
attach varying degress of importance to it as an end in their overall programs/philosophy. en.wikipedia.org...
It becomes appartent that ZP is being misleading in the response to charges of being communist. If you look closely, it more responds to the failure
of the Soviet Union in becoming the promised land that Pure Communism is dreamed to provide:
Most importantly, Communism did not eliminate SCARCITY nor did they have a blueprint or the methods for the production of abundance.
They didn't eliminate it, but their dream of the government operated system was infact "superabundance":
Communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled, as well as a political philosophy and
social movement that advocates and aims to create such a society.
Karl Marx posited that communism would be the final stage in society, which would be achieved through a proletarian revolution and only
possible after a socialist stage develops the productive forces, leading to a superabundance of goods and services.
Jacque Fresco argues for no social classes or private property, superabundance via "his" ideas, and that "his" ideas are the eventual outcome of
the final stages of productive (robot) forces.
Stateless communism, also known as pure communism, is the post-capitalist stage of society which Karl Marx predicted would
inevitably result from the development of the productive forces. Stateless communism is closely related and connected to world communism.
At this point the only difference between ZP and Karl Marx's original ideas of how far his communism would go is that now robots able to replace
humans as slave workers is on the horizon
They even lack a solid reference list that empirically shows how true the whole idea of abundance is in the first place. And the reality is that ZP
doesn't actually have a concrete bluerpint for how to get all of this abundance, other than using renewable energy and robot slaves (that don't yet
exist). When there aren't robots to do 100% of all possible work
guess who will be doing the labor
Perhaps through no fault of their own, they also had to maintain huge military expenditures to protect themselves from invasion of fascistic
and capitalistic institutions.
If the whole world doesn't agree with ZP, won't the ZP sectors of earth need defense forces?
Communism being similar to a resource-based economy or The Venus Project is an erroneous concept. Communism has money, banks, armies, police,
prisons, charismatic personalities, social stratification, and is managed by appointed leaders.
-Already covered "money".
*The Soviet Union had a "bank", but it was nothing like the sorts of banks we have in the 'West':
The Soviet state used Gosbank, primarily, as a tool to impose centralized control upon industry in general, using bank balances and transaction
histories to monitor the activity of individual concerns and their compliance with Plans and directives. Gosbank did not act as a commercial bank in
regard to the profit motive. It acted, theoretically, as an instrument of government policy. Instead of independently and impartially assessing the
creditworthiness of the borrower, Gosbank would provide loan funds to favored individuals, groups and industries as directed by the central
It's hard to see other than the reality of them being Pure Communist (PC), and using the shortcomings of the Soviet Union in comparison to the PC
model. From there, they've yet to fully articulate how their system would be different. It would eventually need some form of units to measure total
resources by, for efficiency alone, and when 'individuals, groups and industries' have new ideas they'd need resources allocated to them to pursue
the idea for the collective good. These resources would have to be allocated to them by the authority in these matters. In teh Soviet Union they
called this a 'bank' (or at least we do).
*Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph are "charismatic personalities". PJ's brother Eric probably isn't a christmatic leader, otherwise we'd surely
know his name as well as we know PJ's.
*Trading human operators for machines that are 'elected' by "agreement" mutes this item. "Agreement" is how they explain this will all work, but
when people dont agree then they WILL need police and prisons in order for the utopia
As to the need for government, only during the transition from a monetary based society to a cybernated high-technological resource based
economy of common heritage would it be necessary to utilize the services of systems analysts, engineers, computer programmers, etc. They will not
dictate the policies or have any more advantage than other people. Their job will be to carry out the restoration of the environment to near natural
conditions as possible on land and in the sea. They will also economically layout the most efficient way to manage transportation, agriculture, city
planning, and production. This too is always in the process of modification and updating to fit the needs of an ever-changing civilization. There are
no final frontiers.
Communists also call for the abolition of private property. ZP claims that the "technicians" wont dictate policies, but what else would they be
doing carrying out measures based on the "scientific management" of literally everything?
This quote also shows into their environmentalist agenda, which is the main operations center of modren communist agenda setting:
Last but not least
, this might be of relevance: Co-creator of the Zeitgest films,
, the brother of
Peter Joseph Merola
the animation director
for Micheal Moore's "Capitalism A Love Story" anti-capitalism propaganda piece.
[edit on 13-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]