The Zeitgeist Movement is *Pure Communism*

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posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
First,
What causes Imperialism Corporatism Capitalism Differential Advantage


Greed by a few, with ignorance and domestication of the masses.


The Venus Project - if extrapolated away from its humble motives at this stage - to world wide implementation.
]

Hey sign me up! If we all get 21.5 acres of pristine subtropical land with ponds and lakes, 10 buildings, hook me up yo. Even better is I also get an income of 150,000 units of measurement of value, then I wont need to bother buying solar panels (which apparently JF hasnt any in Venus, FLORIDA).


Would have NOTHING to do with Imperialism, because it would be built on co-operation and sharing.


It will FAIL for one simple reason, I alone wont agree to it. When I wont agree to it, and I do as I wish, it will have to stop me, simply because it wont be able to work without my and everyone elses cooperation with one another. It will need to be able to predict decades in advance of how to globally manage all possible resources in order to predict how to ensure abundance, but it wont be able to predict our every move in order to do its job. Therefore it will have to tell us how to use every scale of resource, or it will FAIL.

And to even ensure total abundance harmony, it will be even more doomed to attempt to work without being able to average out total global resources, meaning without total global control it cannot work.


Capitalism creates scarcity.


Proper capitalism denounces scarcity as if you have access to cheaper resources you have better ability to compete. On the flip side, the connectedness of everything ensures that only those with near-direct access to the needed resources feel this advantage. Otherwise everything spreads out to effect the market values directly.


Scarcity creates tension.


It does. And screwing us right out of the value of our 'dollars' is about the most immoral thing ever. Especially being the 'world reserve currency'. By tightening the grip on EVERYBODY, this isn't even capitalism, its outright exploitation.

[quote[Oh and implementing a WORLDWIDE - EDUCATION - and - RESISTANCE to an FOREIGN POWER -through "CONTROL" of the MEDIA- Sounds a little too Communistic to me to warrant a tip of the hat. so for now I guess you better just

Did I actually say "control"? News in this nation travels worldwide. Taking back our media, from the multinational corporatists, in itself would be heard around the world. There is such a thing of capitalism wihtout corporatism and mega-conglomeration. But even without it, per say, the Internet connects majority of theworld now.




posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 


Lemme get this straight - your solution is to do one of the following or a combination.


Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So come on lets hear it people. Are you willing to go down with ship?
www.usdebtclock.org...

Let me know is I miss any possible ways out...
*New societies.
*Off the grid into obscurity.
*Stick it out with the consumers.
*Move to Costa Rica (if you're loaded).
*Move to an island (if you're a multimillionaire).
*Move to Argentina (not a bad idea!).
*Move to New Hampshire (and hope theres time for their plan to work).
*Watch American Idol and forget about it.
*Buy a (big) house sailboat ($$$).

I've even thought long and hard about constructing artificial islands ("Waterworld"), for a few years now. Choice example:

The problem is building them so that they could handle the open seas.

If there's any other way lets hear it!



So really your only solution for the betterment of society is to build a new one...

Hmmm, seems familiar...

How are you going to do that so that it either A) doesn't perpetuate the problems of the world already B) does function on a large-scale to solve the worlds problems ??? Tell me man, I wanna know.

We can't all run into the woods and play Robinson Caruso to somehow solve the problem.

So far you got nothing, no alternative, nothing - you're just picking petty holes to divert your own short-sighted worldview from feeling out of its depth.

So I still think you should



I'd rather go to a Utopian Theme-Park than you're crappy floating island.

Atleast one is an educational-prototype for the betterment of world - not just a half-baked escape fantasy.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:45 AM
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You seem to think the world will be run by Skynet under a VP style society - haha - there's a massive difference between true AI, and a functional data-management system.

Humans would still have the dominant role.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:55 AM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
First,
What causes Imperialism Corporatism Capitalism Differential Advantage

Greed by a few, with ignorance and domestication of the masses.

The possibility for Greed to even exist comes from Differential-Advantage - 99% of which wouldn't be possible under the resource-based-economy that TVP aspires to (which is atleast a 100 years away of being able to be fully implemented).

Domestication is a by product of the consumer-culture that Capitalism produces.


Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Capitalism creates scarcity.

Proper capitalism denounces scarcity as if you have access to cheaper resources you have better ability to compete. On the flip side, the connectedness of everything ensures that only those with near-direct access to the needed resources feel this advantage. Otherwise everything spreads out to effect the market values directly.

Cheaper resources - how about free resources?

Why do I need 50 different kinds of breakfast cereal - when I only need the 3 most nutritious.

Capitalism is want and need (scarcity) - Communism is have and give (co-operation).

I'm still waiting for a better alternative.

[edit on 15/4/10 by ghostsoldier]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
So really your only solution for the betterment of society is to build a new one...


It was an outcry for ideas, not a blueprint for telling people what to do.

It was an outcry for ideas of how to improve assuming we cant change people, or cant stop the eventual transhumanist societies that are soon to emerge. Don't obfuscate by skimming limited quotes.


How are you going to do that so that it either A) doesn't perpetuate the problems of the world already B) does function on a large-scale to solve the worlds problems ??? Tell me man, I wanna know.


As I've written all around, lead by showing there can be a better way than it is. If people could actually observe sovereignty they would actually seek it. ZP doesnt support odeas of sovereignty in any capacity whatsoever, therefore it will fail for that reason alone.


So far you got nothing, no alternative, nothing -

Nope! No solutions to any of our problems are to be found anywhere inside of these three threads. If you're just now seeing in, nothing to be seen in any of these threads worth noting. There is NO solution to ANY of our problems other than ZP!

[edit on 15-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
You seem to think the world will be run by Skynet under a VP style society - haha - there's a massive difference between true AI, and a functional data-management system.

Humans would still have the dominant role.


Would they? Until which point? If humans arent collectively smart enough to manage ALL global resources "scientifically", then therefore the machines will have to be smarter than us. As soon as they're as smart as us, they will be able to go into a "hard takeoff".



Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Domestication is a by product of the consumer-culture that Capitalism produces.


Oh? Do YOU own any pets? Or are pets not going to be allowed in your utopia?


I'm still waiting for a better alternative.


I've presented many alternatives, as have others. Just realizing the problems of the system tells us where to attack. How hard is this? PJ shows the systems faults, but then instead of fixing those faults the ONLY way is to go into *Pure Communism*.

[edit on 15-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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Another poster here at ATS put together a thread on Zeitgeist,"debunking" it.

He says the "Venus Project" founder is also a member of the Raelian cult.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
(With links to the Youtube videos,etc,...)



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
It was an outcry for ideas, not a blueprint for telling people what to do.

Outcry for ideas, not a blueprint for telling people what to do you say, hmmmmm I wonder what TVP is..... ???


It was an outcry for ideas of how to improve assuming we cant change people, or cant stop the eventual transhumanist societies that are soon to emerge. Don't obfuscate by skimming limited quotes.

Limited quotes?! I went through your whole 2 page thread, and read all your replies, and that was the best one. So I haven't hidden anything, it's you who has failed epically.

Assuming we cant change people, what can we change, I know provide an alternative environment to live in...

hmmmmmmmm I wonder what TVP is.... ???


As I've written all around, lead by showing there can be a better way than it is. If people could actually observe sovereignty they would actually seek it. ZP doesnt support odeas of sovereignty in any capacity whatsoever, therefore it will fail for that reason alone.

Just because resources would be internationalised, there would be no sovereignty - is that what you're saying?

I think you are alone and failing through your reasoning.

Lead by showing there can be a better way than it is - you say....

hmmmmmm I wonder what TVP is trying to do with its plan for a theme-park?


Nope! No solutions to any of our problems are to be found anywhere inside of these three threads. If you're just now seeing in, nothing to be seen in any of these threads worth noting. There is NO solution to ANY of our problems other than ZP!

Fission Mailed if that was an attempt at sarcasm - because you still haven't written an alternative.




Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Domestication is a by product of the consumer-culture that Capitalism produces.

Oh? Do YOU own any pets? Or are pets not going to be allowed in your utopia?

Don't disconnect my response from yours,
you said all the worlds problems come from greed and domestication of the masses.


I've presented many alternatives, as have others. Just realizing the problems of the system tells us where to attack. How hard is this? PJ shows the systems faults, but then instead of fixing those faults the ONLY way is to go into *Pure Communism*

Write these alternatives out, in this thread. Or link to your posts where you show some actual alternative, not some half-baked BS.

Fixing faults in a system that is by design faulty seems self-defeating.

PJ may have went to the empth degree (ie 100 years into a possible future) - but really it is the only solution to the problem (communistic tendancies that is), not just a bandaid, that you want to apply.

Again,

YOU PROVIDE ME WITH AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE WORLDS ILLS - THAT DOESN'T HAVE A COMMUNIST UNDERTONE - AND I'LL TIP MY HAT TO YOU

IF NOT.








[edit on 15/4/10 by ghostsoldier]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 06:19 AM
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Very good debate here. Im gonna have to side with ghostsoldier on this though. I believe he has a better argument, but maybe im just a communist.. Liek he said, people aren't going to build technology to kill us. It's not like terminator or anything. I think your imagination is going a little too wild there.
Someone said earlier that capitalism isnt bad in itself but i have to disagree with you there. Capitalism encourages competition, which isn't a bad thing, though it means that people will only think of themselves and not help or share with others. It makes people greedy. also capitalism promotes inefficiency because if companies made their products efficient and last as long as possible, people would not keep buying those products. They purposely make their products break down after a while so they can make more profit and sell more goods. Because of this, Companies use more resources and the old products create more waste, so i believe capitalism is a bad system



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 06:30 AM
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reply to post by bulletproof_monk
 


You totally missed the logic of what I was saying. "Greed" is a human trait,"Capitalism" is a system. Greedy people will always exist,but not all capitalists are greedy,and most provide good jobs with fair wages that enable individuals and families to prosper.

Unfortunately,many companies have gotten too big and answer only to those wanting larger profits at the expense of quality and fairness to employees. The "system" didn't make them behave that way. Their own consciences let them do it. The way you make it sound is that people don't have a choice to do right or wrong,when that is clearly where the responsibility lies.

Sorry you don't see it that way. I guess you will love Communism then.

Yeah,trust the government to do what is moral and right!That's a joke

[edit on 15-4-2010 by On the Edge]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 08:21 AM
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"Greed" is a human trait

I'd have to say... tell that to the monks in tibet, or amazonian natives, australian bushmen... do you think they are greedy? They are human right?



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 09:06 AM
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ok yes, sorry i misunderstood you. And i agree, there will always be greedy people, but i think capitalism makes more people greedy because in capitalism it is survival of the fittest, and people are made to not care about each other. That is why we need to change the system to promote sharing and love for each other. The way capitalism is, it makes people not able to trust each other because they are afraid people around them will take advantage of them for their own personal gains. Capitalism makes people love money more than their neighbors, and that just creates conflicts



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Outcry for ideas, not a blueprint for telling people what to do you say, hmmmmm I wonder what TVP is..... ???


ZP is a blueprint for a globally dictatorial system. ...A system that will have to micromanage every single thing we do and use in order to be able to make futile projections to attempt to ensure abundance. ...A system where we will be monitored every second of our existence to be able to fulfill this utopia, same as the NWO is building now. ...A roadmap to scientific domination where humans arent smart enough to actually manage the worlds resources as described, therefore machines smarter than humans will be needed which inherently means we will be obsolete. ...Where this scientific dictation has us all as numbers, cogs in the machine you are just a statistic whom doesnt own your own property, meaning you can be forced relocated as decided best fit for ensuring abundance. ...A system where unless everyone agrees, tyranny and oppression will be needed to force this system down their throats for there to be any hope of it being able to work. ...A system that promises abundance, and may have to exterminate scores of humans in order to provide it. ...A system that has been tried before over and over and has failed every single time, and the larger the system the more millions have been murdered by the government trying to enforce it. ...A dystopia.


Assuming we cant change people, what can we change, I know provide an alternative environment to live in...


But what you people mean by that is force a global system down everyones throats. 'Agree, because you have no other choice'. FACT: It cant work unless EVERYONE agrees. As has already been beaten to death, libertarianism provides a world of choices, communism / fascism (not much different when in pure form) enforces a world of conformity. Which would you prefer based on said criteria? Do you prefer a monolithic system that weilds ALL power, our power spread out across the society?


I think you are alone and failing through your reasoning.

Lead by showing there can be a better way than it is - you say....

hmmmmmm I wonder what TVP is trying to do with its plan for a theme-park?


No I'm not, nice try. I say demonstrate sovereignty, you say RE-EDUCATE everyone into being pure communists. Communism is the inverse of sovereignty.

Like I said, go ahead and build your theme park (make some $$$ for ZP), or just save all those resources by sending everyone to Epcot.


Fission Mailed if that was an attempt at sarcasm - because you still haven't written an alternative.


I've written many solutions all about, as have others. The burden of proof isnt on me (to derail my own thread) to show a better way in the first place, instead its on you to explain how to do your pure communism without it turning into tyranny as it always does. Your attempts to make me outline every possible solution that has or could be discussed is a desperate attempt to derail the discussion away from the pitfalls of your idealistic pure communism pipe dream. You say 'lets do pure communism', and over and over I've described how bad it is, and instead of trying to hammer out and correct the various pitfalls you declare I alone have to solve all of the worlds problems since you're incapable of coming up with solutions in regards to attempting your pure communism without it becoming Stalinism as I've described.




Oh? Do YOU own any pets? Or are pets not going to be allowed in your utopia?

Don't disconnect my response from yours,
you said all the worlds problems come from greed and domestication of the masses.


I didn't say ALL! But I did say 'domestication'. And my point was people who engage in the domestication of others cannot be totally exempt in the mentality I was aiming at. Interesting how you didn't actually answer either question. It seems you arent answer hardly any of my questions directly, yet demand I answer yours when you're the one who seeks to force this system upon the globe.


Fixing faults in a system that is by design faulty seems self-defeating.


Wow!


Self-defeating to fix faults... again you have us returning to the idea that the Federal Reserve system is the ONLY possible way to have a 'monetary system'. It's also like say that since pure communism is faulty (which it IS) once its running and becomes corrupted it would be (following your logic) self-defeating to fix it where its obviously broken. But I see your point, if there's a profit motive then its faulty, fine, but the difference is to do your pure communism we have to go ALL IN. To do it any other way doesnt mean it has to be all in in regards such as international central bankers, fractional reserve banking, multinational corporatism where corporations have the same rights as human beings, and everything else related to crony capitalism. The system is currently designed to screw everyone the less you have, but it doesnt have to be. And just like thats the difference between libertarianism and fascism, thats also the difference between libertarianism and communism, except the sad thing is even fascism can provide aspects that are flexible. It's actually possible to mix various aspects fascism and socialism, but pure communism is all in or nothing. That all being said, please fidn the part earlier where I was talking about The Iron Law of Oligarchy.

Heres another case where: The Burden of Proof is on you to lay out in concrete how its possible to have a global-scale 'scientific' system that doesnt use units of measure of worth (currency).



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:11 AM
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"I've written many solutions all about, as have others. The burden of proof isnt on me (to derail my own thread) to show a better way in the first place, instead its on you to explain how to do your pure communism without it turning into tyranny as it always does."



I definitely agree with the above. And I'd also say that it's impossible given the results of the "experiments" in Russia, China and Cuba. If a signifigant amount of the populace must be shot or imprisoned for your theory to work (as occurred in Russia, China and Cuba) then I think you might have the wrong theory.

Just to recap some of the oppression which went along with communism which you'd need to somehow explain/debunk:

1. Russia: Soviet Gulags, the works of Alexander Solzenitzen himself a prisoner in the gulags, the mass murders committed by Joseph Stalin and the social policies he instituted resulting in many more deaths, denial of freedom of speech and freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, "disappearances" of political undesirables, etc.

2. China: Mass murder of ALL opium addicts, Deaths resulting from Mao's Cultural Revolution, Tiananmen Square crackdown/government firing on its own citizens, "Disappearances" of Tiananmen square dissidents, Mass torture of citizens, Denial of due process and habeas corpus for political dissidents, etc.

3. Cuba. I don't know too much about Cuba, but I do know that Fidel's "right hand man" Che was quite probably a psychopath and that he was directly responsible for murdering many people. Also Fidel solved his criminal problem by shipping all of them to south florida in the 1980s.

These examples don't strike me as anything approaching something any sane human being would want. I know I wouldn't want anyone around me to have to go through this type of hell.

Is this your idea of utopia? Is this your cure?

Let's look at the experiments which did survive for a short time. Black Bear Ranch, one of the few communes that lasted more than a few years in this country in the 1960s and 1970s, disregarded all those who insisted on perpetuating the "class struggle". They put aside the enemy which Marx insists on creating and simply lived according to the dictates of their hearts. THAT turned out well. Why? Not because of communistic ideas (in fact I would posit their living situation more resembled Locke's state of nature then anything imagined by Marx) but because of the power of the human heart, something which Marx/Stalin/Mao did not understand in the least.

Your thoughts?

[edit on 15-4-2010 by Cincinnatus]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by bulletproof_monk
Liek he said, people aren't going to build technology to kill us. It's not like terminator or anything. I think your imagination is going a little too wild there.


Oh?
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Originally posted by ghostsoldier
PJ may have went to the empth degree (ie 100 years into a possible future)


Ah yes, PJ and JF the original idea guys...

Sort of like JF proposing *Pure Communism* as if he came up with it all on his own, even though I showed another pure communist saying the exact same thing at least 160 years (1847!) ago. Likewise, they use ideas from all sorts of other former and modern futurists and present them as if the ideas are their own.

For instance, JF's ideas, 'his' inspiration for TVP, come from the 1930's Technocracy Movement, a movement riddled with ideas of social engineering, futurism, getting rid of what we call 'money' and authoritarianism.


The technocracy movement is a social movement which arose in the early 20th century. Technocracy was highly popular in the USA for a brief period in the early 1930s, when it overshadowed many other proposals for dealing with the crisis of the Great Depression. The technocrats proposed replacing politicians with scientists and engineers who had the technical expertise to manage the economy.


JF was born in 1916, and claims his futurist ideas are his own, yet a 'later' Technocrat treatise titled "Engineers And The Price System" was written in 1921. The "Technical Alliance had already formed by the time JF was 3 years old.

So you see, these people who seek to take your private property away are akin to being intellectual thieves. But not in the property sense, my point is they present all these ideas as if they're their own, without referencing where these ideas came from so that we might efficiently learn the background behind the various things their proposing.

But the real point of me going into all of this is these futurists don't even get into the potential pitfalls of what modren futurism teaches us, such as the Technological Singularity, which threatens to wipe humanity off the face of the earth. Inherently, ZP promotes a total dive into the technolgoical abyss, without even warning us, much like it promotes Pure Communism without admitting thats what it is.



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by bulletproof_monk
ok yes, sorry i misunderstood you. And i agree, there will always be greedy people, but i think capitalism makes more people greedy because in capitalism it is survival of the fittest, and people are made to not care about each other. That is why we need to change the system to promote sharing and love for each other. The way capitalism is, it makes people not able to trust each other because they are afraid people around them will take advantage of them for their own personal gains. Capitalism makes people love money more than their neighbors, and that just creates conflicts


I think somewhere along the line you've been brainwashed. I would hate to be in your shoes if you truly feel the way it sounds. You can't trust people because they might take advantage of you? So,do you advocate taking away all personal responsibility ?

By the way,for years the Bible has been the #1 selling book,and nowhere will you find the promotion of love and sharing more pronounced. God gave us the command to love one another,even our enemies. Do you think if more people cared about what God said that the world would be a better place?
(Communism is nearly synonymous with Atheism,by the way.)
God tells us we are all equal in His eyes,and we will all be judged as individuals for the choices we make.

I don't see how you can rationalize that "people are MADE not to care about each other". As long as we have freedom,people will be people,with all their good and bad traits. We also have the freedom to go on and do great things. Not all Capitalists are evil people! Have you ever had a decent job? Thank a Capitalist!

And please,learn some History!



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by ghostsoldier
Lemme get this straight - your solution is to do one of the following or a combination.


Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So come on lets hear it people. Are you willing to go down with ship?
www.usdebtclock.org...

Let me know is I miss any possible ways out...

...



So really your only solution for the betterment of society is to build a new one...


You know, you're a very vile person. You were so short sighted that you didn't even realize that in my appeals and considerations I had people like you in mind to have a system that would allow people like you to go on and try out your own ideas for how to build new societies.

You say we need a system we can all agree on, yet you push for a global system that only allows the system you desire. This is why the control freak ideals of people like you will always lead to tyranny, while libertarian'esque ideas motivated by freedom to control ones own destiny and to be able to live how you wish will always be the only real chance at a world where everyone has a chance to be happy and prosper.

[edit on 16-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]



posted on Apr, 15 2010 @ 11:22 PM
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reply to post by On the Edge
 


Yes, I know that communism never worked out in the past and im not saying communism is the way to go, but I think America and the entire world needs to take another path instead of capitalism.
The way the government is looking now, America is being run by the top corporations, and theyre killing others for their own profit. If you think ive been brainwashed into hating capitalism then you are very wrong. I am just educating myself on what the government is really doing. They are not doing things to help you or me out, they are making the decisions they do so that it helps them.
And when i said that capitalism makes people not care about each other, maybe i should elaborate. So im not saying that it makes us all hate eachother, but what i am saying is that capitalism creates competition, and when some people are in competition, they cheat or they try to get rid of the ones they are in competition with. This just creates mistrust and conflict. Im not saying every single human being in the capitalist system would compete this way, but there are a number of people who would. If we had a system where one persons gains were everyones gains, then everybody would work together and help eachother instead of hoping that their competition fails and they end up on top. Capitalism creates a huge gap in society where there are very few who have everything they could wish for and more, and a large number of people who have pretty much nothing. If you think this is a good system then i think you are the one that is brainwashed and i feel bad for you
Im sure almost any system of government will become corrupt, because there will always be corrupt people who need to have power and be above everyone else.



posted on Apr, 16 2010 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by bulletproof_monk
reply to post by On the Edge
 


Im sure almost any system of government will become corrupt, because there will always be corrupt people who need to have power and be above everyone else.


I think you summed it up beautifully with that last sentence! That much we do agree on.

Too bad we can't all follow that old Golden Rule
o Unto Others as You Would Have Them Do Unto You.

But we'll never be able to legislate morality,and no one is holding corporations or governments accountable for the evil deeds they do,so I don't see things improving.

Being an "end-times" Bible-believer,I see things getting alot worse before they get better. The "world dictatorship" described as happening fits in perfectly with the Communist doctrine.



posted on Apr, 17 2010 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by ghostsoldier
 


I think the only one who has failed to show an actual alternative is TVP. It is not an alternative because there is no reality to its application.

The whole idea of TVP relies on technology that does not exists. Most of its propaganda uses some examples of technology that we have applied in a very limited and minute ways, yet TVP expands on these examples like they are a given solution.

How does the TVP resolve the issue of intellectual property as a resource?
Given that it is derived from individuals and not from a shared environment( like say other resources like metals or agriculture that would be allocated purely by need).
In a commercial sense, it is the market that drives innovation or stifles it, in TVP, there would be no incentive other then a service to the Ideals of TVP or the good of the collective. In order to achieve that, the whole concept of service to TVP or the collective good would have to be instituted in order to drive the mechanisms of progress and innovation. It then becomes the "state of TVP" priority to motivate people were currently in our world, it is up to the individual, or individual businesses and corporations that are driven to succeed in a market place that currently provides that motivation.
TVP probably won't discuss its scientific socialist paradigm because it will have to answer the question of how it will motivate the population to strive for scientific excellence, innovation and diversity that it will rely upon after removing the mechanism that drives it now (money).

The over riding agenda would be to simply serve the collective system, which I think the OP stresses, leads to a road of tyranny. We have examples of that happening.

I think TVP is naive to think that money is the problem in that it causes scarcity, does that mean that when it gets rid of a monetary system it will generate abundance?
No, this will not happen. TVP will then have to allocate resources based on its own system (now we have politics) and people who will have to explain the system( now we have bureaucrats and politicians wether you rotate them or not). This will place a value on that resource or a value on those that it is allocated too in it that places their needs above others. Once that happens we have two classes of people, those whose needs were served over the needs of others.
TVP is not a solution. It is communism repackaged as a means to value, acquire and distribute resources that are currently valued, acquired and distributed via currency, which we use money to represent.
TVP is a new currency and its new monetary system will be the resources and technology. How will it deliver a new technology, say a piece of technology is made, and there are just 100 pieces of this new technology. Who gets it first? Again this creates a hierarchy or a system where people will have to make decisions, and a hierarchy of people who will be the beneficiaries of that system. So TVP is not really an alternative.
Like money or any other representation of currency, this will be used or manipulated or used to corrupt people or will be allocated unfairly or distributed unevenly by people. This will create disparity, classes and poverty and crime.
The other problem is that TVP does not really say how it will replace the monetary system as a means to gauge what it is that people actually need or require. It simply says that its "super computers" will take care of that. But how?
TVP technology and resources can be equated with money, we can envision similar problems.
An abundance of money helped people create bubbles by building what ever they want rather then relying on a sustainability of profit via the scarcity of savings.
If resources are that available and so is technology, the same applies because there is no real value to what we do. TVP would have to value our actions or what we do for us. Tyranny.


[edit on 17-4-2010 by Derised Emanresu]





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