The Zeitgeist Movement is *Pure Communism*, page 9

Trolling my own thread thats funny.

What isn't funny is the reality of what it takes to implement PJ's ideals into real world policy. When it doesn't work it will have to be ENFORCED. Period. No ifs ands or buts. "Education" really means "re-education", which is a secondary euphamism for indoctrination or brainwashing (depending on how fast the mind is to be programmed).

First and foremost will require banning all competitive sports. That right there will cause total social collapse. Just look at what people in Eurpoe do over which football team is prefered as better by the fans. They'd burn down their cities if you took 'soccer' alone away from them.

People are competitive by nature. People are tribal by nature. People love water by nature. This list goes on and on I dont care what PJ would have you believe.

There isn't some massive indoctrination conspiracy to make people want to live by water. People always have, and always will.

We aren't programmed to be competitive or tribalistic, we simply are and this innate human instinct is used to manipulate us. PJ uses it to manipulate his own cult like followers into dividing themselves from the masses to then blindly follow him and so forth.

From there the other things I touched on are closer to prospective truth than anything in TVP/ZM propaganda materials. They claim no police, punishment, military or prisons. That one blanket statement is further beyond dishonest than the entirety of lies put out by the Bush Administration in 8 years!

Over and over again ZM minions stepped up to debate me and when the key question of how is it going to work the answer is always "cooperation". You simply will not get everyone to cooperate with everything, without a brutal dystopian totalitarian dictatorship. There's no way around this fact. That means a major culling will have to occur to the point where the remaining 'citizens' know better than to disagree or speak out. Implementing this globally (which is right in the ZM 'orientation') is beyond hellish in scope.

Turning backwards, one facet of consideration that people do learn are traditions and culture. Home is the basis of much of this. To build VP cities all the current cities and infrastructure will have to be bulldozed. His efficient city model is key to its success, but all the places that are a good place to build them already have cities, as welll as pretty much everywhere else inclduing places that are terrible areas to build human establishments. THis means you'll have to force everyone from their homes, for perhaps a 100 years it might take to rebuild everything so they don't have to live the in the tent cities no longer. The whole point of ZM requires pretty much everyone in the world to have their homes, culture and traditions banished meaning even if you do manage to "re-educate" them away from their economic and political philosophies it will still take the most brutal relocation and terror campaign in the history of the known universe (and quite possible the rest of the unknown universe).

Now if you do get some spaceships and go find a new planet and manage to claim it then sure the "Venus" Project might be a great way to build things from scratch, but this is the real world you're talking about that is already arguably over-inhabited, a fact which in itself is a big problem in arguing PJ's claims that everything will be overabundant if we just blindly follow his lead. I think it was even narrated in the 2nd film as 'imagine if we had an open area to build a new city from scratch wouldn't this be the best way to do it' or somethign along those lines. In one of my threads I think I recall quoting it exactly. Big Problem: theres no new continent we're about to discover like "the new world" where we can go try it out. And even if you find a decent enough spto to build one of these cities it doesn't even remotely solve the problem of all of the existing cities. And if you did want to build on the size of New York City the circle design might not end up being a good one while NYC holds less than 1/10 of one percent of total world population.

ZM/VP has some neato ideals and that in a perfect world maybe they would work, but the world isnt perfect, people arent going to all agree and cooperate, the world is already built and inhabited and occupied while every single example in history that even remotely resembles what ZM is talking about was a brutal dictatorship. The truth is that ZM utilizes the exact ideals and motivations and language as the most self-destructive 'social projects' from history, and even in their attempts to enforce those systems they still didn't work because they were bad ideas from the beginning. The only new thing PJ has to offer are some video game'esque city designs and some strong AI and fully automated factories that aren't even invented yet let alone ready to take this thing on. Total pipedream at best, that they say we must fight for now!