Christians are discriminated against and 'treated with disrespect', senior bishops warn

reply to post by K J Gunderson


As a non believer, why do you take an interest in Threads that address the spiritual and faith based experiences of believers? Surely it's just a waste of your time?

As I have no active interest in or understanding of, lets say, UFO's, I may, if bored, look at a thread that claims to have proof, but I don't waste my time getting involved, so I don't really understand your motivation.

reply to post by teapot


Being a non believer or agnostic does not mean you are disinterested in the effects of theology/religion... from a sociological perspective. It does not mean that you are ill qualified to give opinion. Do not confuse it as such!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by teapot

 

Being a non believer or agnostic does not mean you are disinterested in the effects of theology/religion... from a sociological perspective. It does not mean that you are ill qualified to give opinion. Do not confuse it as such!

IRM

Who said non believers were ill qualified to give an opinion?!? And I am most certainly not 'confused'! I have learned that IRM is interested in faith based Threads on sociological grounds! And I welcome anything that can help me to greater understanding of the world and it's peoples. So, cheers!

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Christians are trying to force doctrine on others all the time in the U.S.

Yes, here's a pretty interesting news report about the harassment and victimization of 'non-believers' in modern day America.





Pretty shocking realy - I thought tolerance was supposed to be a two way street.

reply to post by karl 12


I totally agree, tolerance is supposed to be a two way street. That is why any intolerance against any religion/atheism should be addressed as a community.

You will see Christianity as being discriminated against more because we simply have more people. If one is attacked, than Christians attack as a community. They fail to realize that other sides get attacked as well. It is wrong, and as a Christian, I am with you all the way.

It is our job to show others that tolerance is a two way street.

thestar.com.my.../2010/3/28/apworld/20100328102103&sec=apworld

321 civilians killed in 2009 massacre in Congo DAKAR, Senegal (AP): At least 321 civilians were killed in a previously unreported massacre in Congo in late 2009, while villagers that escaped their rebel captors were sent back with their lips and ears cut off as a warning to others of what would happen if they tried to talk, according to an investigation by a human rights group. New York-based Human Rights Watch said in its report released Saturday that at least 250 more people were abducted by the Lord's Resistance Army rebels during the attack in the Makombo area of northeastern Congo, including no less than 80 children. Human Rights Watch's senior Africa researcher, Anneke Van Woudenberg, called the massacre "one of the worst ever committed by the LRA in its bloody 23-year history."

"The Lords Resistance Army" claims responsibility for this particular slaughter.
Children were forced to form a circle and kill other children by bashing them on the head until they died.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by rusethorcain]

reply to post by rusethorcain


A truly sad story. But the fact is that the Christians and Muslims in these areas have always been at war. Christians attacked, Muslims attacked. It is a civil war, which has been going on for sometime now.

Both sides are misguided, and I hope this feud would end sometime.

reply to post by rusethorcain


Grief is the only response I have to this type of report. That people who wish to control others through violence, choose to do so in the name of God, that in so doing, they not only curse the name of God, they continue the endless cycle of inhumanity, and bring calamity upon the wider community within which they and their perceived enemy, exist.

As I understand it, professed but not lived, faith as the basis for continuence of tribal conflict for establishing dominance over others, is blasphemy.

In reply to the nycwhateverguy:

My beloved Muslims? So you are the person who foed me? Really, get over it. I'm not a Muslim. IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE OF MANY NON-CHRISTIAN FAITHS THAT ARE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. Are you not bright enough to get why I brought it up? I also brought up the non-religious. Christians need to stop acting like they have some kind of corner in the discrimination market. And if I was that person I wouldn't wear the necklace as there is not one thing in the the bible that commands you to do so. In fact, the bible condemns jewelry in a few passages. Furthermore, considering the hospital rules, she should have taken it off. "Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's?", remember that line? She's a hypocrite plain and simple. If a Muslim wanted to wear a headscarf and it was against the rules I'd be saying the same thing. The rule wasn't "bow down and worship Satan", it's "Don't wear jewelry". Not a big deal.

As if the majority can be pushed around by a minority anyway. What this thread proves is many people only care about religious tolerance when it's their religion getting their butt kissed, otherwise they couldn't care less about who is getting stomped on today.

Originally posted by nycfrog27
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

I am just tired of the degredation of Christianity and how we believe in [insert negative remarks here]. It's offensive. It seems like some members demand our attention about their feelings on their religions/subjects, all the while degrading mine. How is it right to do this?

I'm not demanding your attention. In fact, I could care less what you think. I didn't degrade your religion. Get over it.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by antonia]

OK, I have been corrected. Thanks equinox for pointing that out. My bad and I appologize to karl

[edit on 30-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

As a non believer, why do you take an interest in Threads that address the spiritual and faith based experiences of believers? Surely it's just a waste of your time?

I have to believe in one of your gods in order to find religion interesting? Apparently you have no idea the vast sociological aspects of religion. I find all of that very interesting. I do not believe in demon posession but I loved watching "The Exorcist."

Please do not pretend to know why I might find something interesting based on your personal criteria.

As I have no active interest in or understanding of, lets say, UFO's, I may, if bored, look at a thread that claims to have proof, but I don't waste my time getting involved, so I don't really understand your motivation.

Do people like you understand how often you make such eronious correlations. You talked of my lack of belief in your god and compared it to your lack of interest in something. I believe I have quite clearly pointed out that I find religion very interesting. I am interested in understanding a great many things about it. I do not have to believe in your god to do that.

Originally posted by teapot
Those people are idiots! They claim to be Christian but I cannot identify with anyone who attempts to force doctrine on another.

That is getting to be a very tired excuse. When Christians do something bad, 'oh those aint my christians!' Whatever. They call themselves Christian and they act in the name of Christ. To any non-believer that is a Christian whether you personally acknowledge them or not.

Who are you to judge who is and who is not really a Christian anyway? I am pretty sure your god is pretty explicit about that not being your place.

I did see one post (maybe not in this Thread) advising that the poster had been awoken at 7.30am by people claiming to bringing him salvation! I do not for one moment believe that harassing people in this way is what God wants! And as such, those who do so, are idiots (and maybe worse?).

Yes, I agree there are Christians who are idiots. No argument here.

I do empathise with you guys in America, because you are right, it is nice! Although we do have to contend with the JW's!

We have those here too though I have personally never encountered one. I know many people who have had to post signs to keep them from coming around but I have always been just lucky enough to live between the Mormon and Christian missionaries.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Christians are trying to force doctrine on others all the time in the U.S.

Yes, here's a pretty interesting news report about the harassment and victimization of 'non-believers' in modern day America.

Pretty shocking realy - I thought tolerance was supposed to be a two way street.

Just because you showed a one sided example does not make it one sided. Please explain how the Westboro Baptist Church is anything BUT threatening and intolerant?

I am not denying that people are intolerant all over the place. I have no clue why you are trying to pretend there are not intolerant Christians in the US. The last time I checked, showing up to a soldiers funeral to shout that God wanted him dead because the US has gay folks in it was not exactly the same as a warm hug.

See, like you I can narrow it down to just one simple example. You did not disprove what I said. Thanks for playing.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by K J Gunderson]

You have clearly misinterpreted Karl 12's post. Please go back and re-read before you disagree. He was clearly trying to show intolerance of Christian communities. Did you even watch the video? It was two Atheists claiming to be harassed by a Christian Mississippi community.

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Equinox99]

reply to post by Equinox99


You are right. I did not watch it. I do not have my speakers hooked up and I get so use to sarcastic disagreement that I assumed and that was wrong all the way around.

Originally posted by karl 12

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Christians are trying to force doctrine on others all the time in the U.S.

Yes, here's a pretty interesting news report about the harassment and victimization of 'non-believers' in modern day America.

Pretty shocking realy - I thought tolerance was supposed to be a two way street.

OK, I hooked up my speakers. Good video, so sorry I assumed you were making a point against what I said without actuall watching it. Another star from me. That is a pretty darn good example of what I meant. My apologies.

Originally posted by teapot
As a non believer, why do you take an interest in Threads that address the spiritual and faith based experiences of believers? Surely it's just a waste of your time?

As I have no active interest in or understanding of, lets say, UFO's, I may, if bored, look at a thread that claims to have proof, but I don't waste my time getting involved, so I don't really understand your motivation.

I don't undertand posts like these
What is to you why someone made this thread or why others are posting in it?

I hate when people derail threads like this with conspiracy theories or posters having hidden agendas as to why they are posting.
How about not shooting the messenger and just stick to the topic?

You don't need to understand anyone's motivation, if you want to understand it really then V2V the ATS member and find out privately.

Once again I find myself reading this thread (like many others nowadays) wanting to say something... and after a little thought I have this feeling of 'it's not worth all the flaming and hatred, just let it be..' .. and it's a shame, really. Not because my opinion is so important (or my 'knowledge' which I pretend to have) but more because I'm sure there are MANY other people like me doing the same here. We are missing so many good opinions, arguments, perspectives and pieces of wisdom, as we are not really listening (or reading) each others like a fellow human being.. a friend.. Sometimes it feels more like this place is full of enemies, trying to find each others weaknesses and then attacking them ruthlessly, demonizing everything the other one does, says, feels or believes..

I know it's hard sometimes if something that someone says feels utterly stupid, arrogant, selfish or hateful. But we should still think that this person is not completely evil, stupid or ignorant. I feel I'm so very bad with that myself, but it goes over the limit all the time here. Bashing other people's beliefs and doing everything to make yourself look so much better, wiser, more educated, intelligent, open minded and God knows what else.

So sad..

Because of some of the news posted in this thread and because of some of the replies so far, I will spend some of the remaining characters for this poem I just recently came familiar with. (I found the english translation, as the finnish translation somehow touched me very deeply.)

Sam Keen - "Faces of the Enemy"

To Create An Enemy

Start with an empty canvas
Sketch in broad outline the forms of
men, women, and children.

Dip into the well of your own
disowned darkness
with a wide brush and
stain the strangers with the sinister hue
of the shadow.

Trace onto the face of the enemy the greed,
hatred, carelessness you dare not claim as
your own.

Obscure the sweet individuality of each face.

Erase all hints of the myriad loves, hopes,
fears that play through the kaleidoscope of
every finite heart.

Twist the smile until it forms the downward
arc of cruelty.

Strip flesh from bone until only the
abstract skeleton of death remains.

Exaggerate each feature until man is
metamorphasized into beast, vermin, insect.

Fill in the background with malignant
figures from ancient nightmares – devils
demons, myrmidons of evil.

When your icon of the enemy is complete
you will be able to kill without guilt,
slaughter without shame.

The thing you destroy will have become
merely an enemy of God, an impediment
to the sacred dialectic of history.

I think this poem has so much truth in it, I hope many of you reads it with a thought. And maybe afterwards reflects, how you confront a fellow human being here in this forum - as well as on every day life.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Good catch. So then we just go back to the fact that neither is universal.

the question was, is the search for god or knowledge of god not religion... (I admire your failed curve ball though)

Since you are new here, let me explain to you how accusations work. You have to show the proof, evidence, quote of what you are accusing me of. Otherwise you are a liar. I am sure you have something, so please put it where your accusation is.

see below...

There is no logic there at all. Atheism is not dependent on religion to exist at all. You seem to be confusing something else with Atheism altogether. Do you know what Atheism means? You are mistakenly equating lack of belief with doubt. They are not the same thing.

your religion relies on there being belief/faith in the first place, why else would you guys like saying things like "your god" so often ? I think this has alot to do with the being cool factor.

Hence (do I know what atheism means?) yes I happen to know that... lack of belief IS doubt !

let me take a wild guess here, you must be Canadian?

[edit on 30-3-2010 by Cosmic.Artifact]

Originally posted by Equinox99
You have clearly misinterpreted Karl 12's post. Please go back and re-read before you disagree. He was clearly trying to show intolerance of Christian communities. Did you even watch the video? It was two Atheists claiming to be harassed by a Christian Mississippi community.

majority rules ! and obviously the community dealt with this by shunning the couple that could teach their kids no love for their fellow peers and possibly do others harm. The community was most likely fearing for their children and any influence to their young impressionable minds.

We do not know the whole story behind this family and they were possibly a little too out-spoken and maybe even loud or kind of an embarrassment to the community before the facts of their religious sect even came to light. (we all have these neighbors who do not socialize or cut their lawn ect)

these people are not sincere, they are looking for something possibly a hand out or a law suit... Aside from all of this what is baffling me about that video is why they would dress their daughter up like its her tv debut on american idol or something ? I mean sure I understand they knew they were going to be on tv news but why they choose to adopt some kind of image of normalcy by dressing up instead of just showing they they were/are normal by dressing the way kids really do dress (specially while bowling) lol... I bet mom had high-heels on for her pitch down the isle.

that was strange... and so fake, I think they might even be reptilians !


[edit on 30-3-2010 by Cosmic.Artifact]

grant me one more rant on that video plz...

at the very end where she (mom) says that she don't understand why 'they' can go out and preach on a street corner, blah blah and if she tried to go out and put in the same time...

does she even realize what she is saying ? is she not acknowledging or realizing her religion is non acceptance in the first place ? why do battle if her religion states it does not believe in the battle in the first place...

ignorance is not bliss... well on tv anyway !

lower than the homo's that was pretty funny too