Christians are discriminated against and 'treated with disrespect', senior bishops warn

If she has such a need to let everyone know that she is a Christian, why not ask to be allowed to embroider a cross on her uniform lapel? This way everyone is happy and she won't run the risk of being strangled by an epileptic patient grabbing the chain by accident.
If they refuse a little embroidery on her uniform, then she'd have a case for discrimination.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
No, that was not what I was saying. I am not justifying discrimination or saying people that do it are not wrong. I am saying that there is no reason that .3% of the population should even be heard by 72.8%. Why should such a small number of people even matter to such a large number? If one person in this entire state opposed me...I am pretty sure I could carry on.

But, it's not necessarily just 0.3% that discriminate. Also, the 72% figure is slightly misleading, because a lot of people will just put down 'C of E' as their religion just because they may vaguely be religious, or because they have a family history of belonging to the church etc. I'd say the real figure of serious Christians in the UK is probably nearer the 30-40% mark.
It's also completely different over here to the USA in regards to the prominence of religion and Christianity in particular - religion is thought of as a much more personal thing in the UK. For example, there are many people I know well that I have no idea of what - if any - religious beliefs they hold. It used to be said that the three things you shouldn't bring up at the dinner table were religion, politics and sex !

To cut to the chase, what I'm trying to say is that the Christian majority in Britain is largely invisible, so it doesn't matter whether it's .3% discriminating against 72%, or 10% discriminating against 40%, it is still the same basic principle of fairness.
There are no advantages that being a Christian has over any other religion, so they are not a privileged majority.
The numbers do not matter, as discrimination in this context is always a personal injustice and not an injustice against the whole group.

reply to post by Benji1999


That just leads me to ask who is at fault for that majority being so invisible?

Mostly though, if religion is such a personal and private thing, then why is it so reliant on a necklace in this case?

Originally posted by Yissachar1

Christians are discriminated against and 'treated with disrespect', senior bishops warn

www.dailymail.co.uk

Senior bishops today claimed Christians in Britain are being 'treated with disrespect' while followers of other faiths are dealt with more sensitively.
The six bishops and Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, said the 'apparent discrimination' against churchgoers was 'unacceptable in a civilised society'.
In a letter to The Sunday Telegraph, the bishops point to the case of Shirley Chaplin, a nurse who was banned from working on hospital wards for wearing a necklace with a cross.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

(visit the link for the full news article)


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[edit on 28-3-2010 by Yissachar1]

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[edit on 28/3/2010 by Mirthful Me]

Interesting

Maybe instead of whining about it ... they should be asking themselves the big question
>>> WHY

Ironically, the very bible she believes in features verses condemning "adornments" such as jewelery.

Everything I need say about this thread is in my avatar.

However, I would like to add that in my view, it is perfectly fine to deem any religion, especially Christianity as irrelevant. That is the greatest disrespect anyone can cast on a religion. The nutters hate it as well, as their attention whore behaviour is restricted by doing this.

Parallex.

reply to post by On the Edge

I would like to lead the discrimination against the whole rotten edifice - the whole profiteering, woman-fearing, guilt-gorging, truth-hating, child-raping institution - while it tumbles, amid a stench of incense and a rain of tourist-kitsch sacred hearts and preposterously crowned virgins, about their ears.

I work in a hospital surgery and our dress code says no earrings bigger than a dime (tiny big bigger than a 1/10 ounce Krugerrand, if that helps). Every nurse is also taught not to wear a necklace because a deranged/belligerent patient could grab it, but that isn't part of our dress code. One of my Christian coworkers violates this EVERY DAY by wearing huge, swinging, rhinestone encrusted crucifixes on her earrings, not to mention a HUGE crucifix on a necklace. When confronted by management, she grabs her crucifixes and claims, "she needs them. Ok, can't she put one in her pocket where she can look at it, hold it, whatever if she "needs" it? She's just playing the religion card to see how far she can push things and it angers her coworkers. Recently, a coworker brought the issue up to management again and the earrings have disappeared. It will be interesting to see how long it it takes them to reappear. This has been going on for YEARS.

Living in Texas, I have noticed that the more outward the religious display, the greater the degree of hypocrisy.

A "real" Christian would conform to the dress code.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
That just leads me to ask who is at fault for that majority being so invisible?

Mostly though, if religion is such a personal and private thing, then why is it so reliant on a necklace in this case?

Well, I think the majority being invisible is a good thing, so no-one is at fault, because they don't need to be visible.

Religion is a personal and private thing, but people have the right to express their faith and religion through clothing, jewellery and anything else they wish to without being discriminated against because of the particular religion they are representing.
This case, I think, is a bit of a red herring because it's more likely health and safety regulations than any kind of discrimination against Christians.
However, the letter sent by these Christian leaders are in relation to a general attitude and other incidents where Christians are treated more harshly or discriminated against, while followers of any other religions are treated with respect and are not singled out for their religion.
I am not a Christian, although I do have Christian friends, so I can kind of see this discrimination taking place, but it's very subtle in a lot of cases.

The point is that if people don't like religions or don't have any time for religious people, then at least they should have that attitude across the board, rather than single out any one religion to discriminate against.
Really though, people should be mature and civilised enough to respect all religions - even if it's not their cup of tea, or even if they think the whole notion is a bit silly - it's merely a matter of civility and respect, which I think both religious and non-religious people should be afforded in equal measure.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Benji1999]

Originally posted by Benji1999


Well, I think the majority being invisible is a good thing, so no-one is at fault, because they don't need to be visible.

Then why am I so fully aware of their complaints?

Religion is a personal and private thing, but people have the right to express their faith and religion through clothing, jewellery and anything else they wish to without being discriminated against because of the particular religion they are representing.

What you just said is completely contradictory. If religion is so private and personal, then a public fight about wearing jewelry to EXPRESS that faith makes no sense all the way around.

Either it is personal and private or something to be expressed outwardly. Pick one, please.

This case, I think, is a bit of a red herring because it's more likely health and safety regulations than any kind of discrimination against Christians.

That would be the main problem here. Obviously there is a good reason for people not to have something around their neck in this environment. Yet, here I am in the states reading all about how this is persecution of something so personal and private.

See the paradox there?

However, the letter sent by these Christian leaders are in relation to a general attitude and other incidents where Christians are treated more harshly or discriminated against, while followers of any other religions are treated with respect and are not singled out for their religion.

Such as?

I am not a Christian, although I do have Christian friends, so I can kind of see this discrimination taking place, but it's very subtle in a lot of cases.

Are you sure it is really discrimination? If I turn away every Christian missionary that comes to my door, could they not gather and discuss my discrimination against them? Of course, if they were to talk to the Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons that I am also turning away...not so much.

It sounds to me more like whiny "why me" attitudes.

Let me give you an example. I used to run a team of 32 people in a warehouse. There were a few really bad apples that always needed some kind of discipline. I would constantly have to go remind "Robin" to stop talking and get back to work. It did not take long before Robin began to cry about how she was picked on, discriminated against, singled out, blah blah blah. From her myopic little world, I guess she was right. That is because it was not Robin's business to know that I had to do the same thing with "Charles" just as often.

Is it possible these Christians feel discriminated against because they are only thinking about themselves? Do any Muslims feel discriminated against there? Are they wrong? Is it possible that everyone has to make concessions in life and just because you only look at your own does not mean you are the only one making any?

The point is that if people don't like religions or don't have any time for religious people, then at least they should have that attitude across the board, rather than single out any one religion to discriminate against.

Since this thread is specifically about this article in the OP, I am not sure what you are saying lives in reality with it. Are you talking about the world in general? Based on what? Are you talking about something else you have not elaborated on? What is it? Are you addressing the OP? Well, according to the policy, no one of any religion can wear a necklace. How is that not across the board?

Really though, people should be mature and civilised enough to respect all religions - even if it's not their cup of tea, or even if they think the whole notion is a bit silly - it's merely a matter of civility and respect, which I think both religious and non-religious people should be afforded in equal measure.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Benji1999]

Exactly, just as Christians should respect other religions as well as those without religion as well as the policies set by the institutions in which they choose to work.

Now that I have had to hear that religion is so deeply personal and private twice, I would really like to know why the heck it NEEDS to be expressed outwardly then.

reply to post by antonia


I've been reading several of your responses, and frankly this topic is not about Islam. You have not given your two cents on the subject at hand. This isn't about Islam. Make up your own thread in the rants forum and defend it all you want to THERE.

But, now that you mention it, I fail to see Christians doing the following IN PUBLIC (like your beloved Muslims do):

Hangings
Beatings
Stonings
Rioting
Promoting Terrorism
Mutilations of others

Where's my credibility? How do I know anything about Islam? I've spent 4 years in Afghanistan. I've seen Sharia Law, first hand. It's true, not ALL Muslims adopt the hatred and unacceptance of other religions. But the majority do. Quit attacking Christianity, it's getting old. What people believe in is their choice, not yours. No one likes a braggart and boastful person. Your credibility on this topic is null and void because of your one-sidedness. Look at it from a Christian's point of view, for once. How would you feel if you were that person?

reply to post by nycfrog27


I just read your post and frankly, this topic is not about Islam. Why would anyone take the time to post about how someone else needs to take their talk about Muslims to a different thread and then do nothing but bash Muslims?

reply to post by K J Gunderson


b/c she's been rambling on about how muslims are being mistreated and such. This is off topic. I am sorry if I offended you, I meant no disrespect. I am just tired of the degredation of Christianity and how we believe in [insert negative remarks here]. It's offensive. It seems like some members demand our attention about their feelings on their religions/subjects, all the while degrading mine. How is it right to do this?

Originally posted by nycfrog27
reply to post by K J Gunderson

 

b/c she's been rambling on about how muslims are being mistreated and such. This is off topic. I am sorry if I offended you, I meant no disrespect. I am just tired of the degredation of Christianity and how we believe in [insert negative remarks here]. It's offensive. It seems like some members demand our attention about their feelings on their religions/subjects, all the while degrading mine. How is it right to do this?

I am not at all offended. I did not mean it that way. I was just enjoying the irony of a post decrying the off topic discussion of Islam that then turns out to be nothing but yet another off topic discussion of Islam. I just hope you can see how that might make someone chuckle.

reply to post by K J Gunderson


I do, and it was done on purpose. She brought it up about how everyone else is mistreated and such. So, since I was on the topic about it, I told her what I felt.

*gracefully bows out, wheras not to let my emotions get the better of my judgement*

It's a good world where logic and reason trump the boogeyman. She could have taken the necklace off and at the same time stopped violating a central tenet of her faith by doing so!

After all, anyone who requires a physical item to represent their faith and worship is an Idolater, and isn't the punishment for that stoning to death?

Silly radicals trying to blow up a non-issue into a kerfuffle.

I find it a touch ironic, bishops complaining about about the "disrespect" paid to Christians, when there seems to be a large amount of disrespect, mis-placed pity, and sometimes downright condemnation placed upon those who make a point of not following the Christian faith, or any dogma at all for that reason.

Surely, as Christians, they could just FORGIVE those who "sin" against them, or better yet...turn the other cheek and quit complaining.

In the UK, there is little MSM coverage of incidences of violence, abuse or discrimination against Christians. The case of the woman with a necklace is a red herring that MSM seized upon to ridicule and undermine Christianity in the UK.

This Thread has referred to incidences of hate, by non-Christians, against the general population in the UK, yet even on enlightened ATS, when Christians reveal that their faith is not the way of the wimp, the response of the general population is to denigrate Christianity in general and the faithful in particular. This Christian is not responsible for any of the illegal actions of other people, past or present, who claim to be Christian. I suspect that not many Christian ATSer's are either. I do not appreciate the obsessional distraction of being labeled a criminal or a supporter of criminal behaviour or deviancy just because of the fact that all human institutions are corrupt.

One case that can demonstrate the absolute 'news' black out of anti-Christian acts or discrimination (I wish I could remember where I saw the article), a couple of years ago I read about how THE PREVIOUS YEAR, there had been groups of Islamic youths gathering outside churches on Sunday mornings for the sole purpose of cursing elderly women with sexual expletives, threatening to kill them and their families and just generally spewing hate and causing a public nuisance. The authorities adopted their usual practice of Moslem appeasement and nobody was prosecuted.

Had elderly Christian women demonstated outside a mosque, using inflamatory, hate filled language, would the authorities have been so lenient and indulgent? We suspect not. (By we, I refer to all the people, Christian or otherwise, who I have spoken to about this case.) We suspect that the authorities would have clamped down decisively and the whole been reported immediately in the MSM.

And if the story had been made into a thread here, would there have been a more empathetic response from non faithful or non religious ATSer's? I suspect not.



[edit on 30/3/2010 by teapot]

My thoughts on this are:

1. Religions have always been vilifed by others who do not believe in those religions. That, unfortunately, is why we have had religious wars since history began.

2. No-one ever learns from their mistakes - and that includes countries.

3. I said a long time ago that if someone cannot conquer, they just move in and take over. No-one seems to notice these takeovers until it is too late.

4. Why has no-one noticed this except me? Or maybe they have?

5. Why can't the human race realise that it is too late, because of all the hatred, the destruction, and the vying for power, that we will all lose in the end (soon)?

Originally posted by Milleresque
Surely, as Christians, they could just FORGIVE those who "sin" against them, or better yet...turn the other cheek and quit complaining.

This, forgiveness, does not mean Christians should shut up, which is what non believers really want.

Ask any Christian when last they were accused of attempting to force doctrine on others just because they admit to being Christian!

Forgiveness does not mean adopting victimhood.