Massive Federal Raid in Lenawee County

I don't like these sealed warrants (another government innovation)...hopefully the defense attorneys will be able to get these unsealed, before the indictments come, so they can be challenged. However, since they're probably protecting the identities/testimonies of the infiltrated informants (used as probable cause), I'd say they have maybe a 1% chance at best.

so first it was "they were selling pipe bombs", then it was "threatening islamic folk", and now its threats againt the police.... im sure there are thousands if not millions of people out there who will find this story of the gov't going after a christian militia group preparing for the end times very offensive..

reply to post by whatukno


Then it becomes an even more sticky situation.

Let's say Intrepid were to raise an army of Canadians that came across Lake Erie to sack Toledo for refusing to call thick sliced ham Canadian Bacon or whatever. And you and I grew tired of his constant gloating of taking Toledo and he threatened to either hit Detroit or Cincinnati.

You and I decide to pool our resources and form the ATS Militia, midwest division. We go to Lima to meet and head north. We encounter the Ohio National Guard in Ada and state that we know him well and will try to slip in and take him out, but do not wish to be a part of the Ohio NG. Of course they refuse, but Ohio University Campus Police will join the Ohio NG if we will stay in Ada to protect the campus.

If you and I were a fully regulated militia under Article 1, Section 8 then we would be committing an act of Posse Comitatus. Which may or may not be legal at the time. With the ATS Militia being a volunteer, at will group; then the campus police could make that deal with us. Or, since we are unregulated we could ignore the Ohio NG and complete our plan as intended (which would probably be along the lines of Odysseus and Polyphemus except with beer).

Originally posted by K J Gunderson

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
targeting police officers.

that's what FOX just said,

BUt,

Information last night said they were targeting Islamic groups.

MSNBC just said that threats against police prompted the raids. They did not really say too much else about the catalyst.

According to CNN broadcast news they were posting instructions on how to target and kill law enforcement officers and agents, setting traps for them and using fake 911 calls... etc.

If true, it is a weak case at best, and a very stupid thing for these militia members to do.

We don't have any facts yet, the feds control all of the information and can control whatever is leaked to the media.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Fractured.Facade]

reply to post by Stormdancer777

Federal officials have remained tightlipped about the three-state raid Sunday that nabbed seven people and arrest records have been sealed. Michael Lackomar, the leader of Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, a separate Michigan-based militia group, told ABC News he heard that threats toward Islamic groups made by extremist group the Hutaree may have fueled the arrests.

OK, so here it says arrest record were sealed, yet we have a speech at an Islamic convention that knows what is happening?

www.detnews.com...

Nine members of a militia group arrested in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois and Ohio were planning to "levy war" against the United States and "oppose by force" the nation's government, according to an indictment released this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit.

The eight men and one woman are members of the "Hutaree," identified as an "anti-government extremist organization" in the indictment, and each faces three to five charges, including sedition, attempts to use weapons of mass destruction, teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials and two counts of carrying weapons in relation to a crime of violence.

WOW!!

www.google.com...

Nine suspects tied to a Christian militia in the Midwest are charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral in the hopes of killing more law enforcement people, federal prosecutors said Monday.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Makes you wonder if the photographic evidence will be something like this


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b0fbc2e2e6ef.jpeg[/atsimg]

Nothing like keeping a story straight.

reply to post by Ahabstar


That damn Intrepid, always messing with our ham.

Had he decided to hit Detroit, I think he would find more of a hassle than he would want anyway.

But according to the constitution, if we were a legitimate militia, congress could call us up to act against the rampaging Intrepid to stop his barbarism.

Being a group of civilians, we could organize in a way an not be uniformed soldiers which is a great advantage in a warfare situation. We are civilians, not military personnel. Not required to be uniformed, not under any international laws as far as the Geneva conventions go.

We could act in a way that the regular forces could not.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Janet Napolitano, and the DHS labeled most Americans as "possible terrorists", and now they seem to be going at least after some groups of such Americans.

This sort of reminds me of the saying "first they came for the Jews, then the Capitalists, and when they came for me there was no one to help me" There are many versions of the saying, but their meaning is true. [edit on 29-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

Yep, you are absolutely right with that statement, EU. We are all terrorists in TPTB's eyes, and that's just how it is. A long time ago, right after the Civil War, we were all labelled "enemies of the State," so I guess there isn't too awful much difference here, is there? I have a few names for them too. Trouble is, me calling them names doesn't hurt them any.

Seems it will be unsealed today...the warrents that is

From faux news, they were going to attack/ambush police...murder them, then ambush the funerals to get the rest of the cops...a basic grassroots overthrow of the government kind of thing.

They had IED's, tons of modified guns, etc etc etc..

Plans of direct attacks on other various infrustructure and appearantly it was set off to go soon (I would think April 19th...15 year anniversery of oklahoma bombing).

Freedom of speech ends when there is conspiracy to overthrow the government overall...

These guys give a seriously bad name to milita. no doubt someone from the inside woke up one day and said, wtf...these guys are nuts...time to contact the feds before they go do something stupid

From the WiKi:

In the criminal law, a conspiracy is an agreement between two or more persons to break the law at some time in the future, and, in some cases, with at least one overt act in furtherance of that agreement. There is no limit on the number participating in the conspiracy and, in most countries, no requirement that any steps have been taken to put the plan into effect (compare attempts which require proximity to the full offence). For the purposes of concurrence, the actus reus is a continuing one and parties may join the plot later and incur joint liability and conspiracy can be charged where the co-conspirators have been acquitted or cannot be traced. Finally, repentance by one or more parties does not affect liability but may reduce their sentence.

Fed prison is no fun from what I understand.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


What it sounds like is the Feds went after one of the less funded Militias to trump up some charges to see if they can get them to stick. Makes sense why they went after that small group of people, less money, than say if they went after one of the bigger militias. If they can get a precedent in legal system for taking down the militia the rest will be right behind them.

Now considering what you just posted is true, they are really starting to cross the line at this point.

The eight men and one woman are members of the "Hutaree," identified as an "anti-government extremist organization" in the indictment, and each faces three to five charges, including sedition, attempts to use weapons of mass destruction, teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials and two counts of carrying weapons in relation to a crime of violence.

What weapons of mass destruction were they supposedly going to use?

I think the definition of WMDs needs to be spelled out a little better. I do not care how big a pipe bomb is, I do not think it could qualify...

I think the smallest thing that could be considered a WMD would be the size of the bomb Timothy McVeigh used or the one used by the first WTC bombing...

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Okay, that is quite the accusation. Makes my above post look bad. Time will tell if this one has merit or was put out to quiet the rabble.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Logarock

 

I believe that militias are a constitutionally legal entity, but read what the constitution says about militias.

Legitimacy is what is needed for Militias.

You are correct about the national guard, but in reality they are a DOD entity, and therefore do not fall under the clause of Militias. Militias are to be non enlisted people that if the united states were to be invaded can be called up by congress to act.

If they refuse to be legitimate, then they are nothing more than violent street gangs.

[edit on 3/29/2010 by whatukno]

I did read.... thank you.

But in fact if you look closer that discription given is exactly what the national gaurd is. Armed by the fed, officers apponited ect ect. UNDER THE EMPLOY...ect You would have to have some form of enlistment if you are going to get trained and paid by the fed....which is what the NG is....as directed under this section.

I wonder if these christian militants think if Christ were alive today, he would be heading up the plans to slaughter police officers.

Must have missed that entry...

Milita 1:4-7
And Jesus said:
"Go forth, and kill the roman guards...then when everyone is at their funeral, go kill the ones attending...it will be great...God loves that kind of stuff" And the people listened, and they made pipe bombs...

One of those lesser known parts of the bible.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Ahabstar

 

But what I want to see is legitimacy for these militias. Remember, the constitution completely condones militia corps. But, I disagree with police forces being called militias. For the constitution does not specifically state that militias are an arm of the executive branch. (Which police really are.) But specifically has Congress as the executing body for these groups.

I agree, from a Constitutional standpoint, taking the State Police as an example:
The State government, in the form of Attorneys all, are illegal in that the original 13th Amendment is broken. So, in effect, all who work for, or are under contract to, are again illegal in that they are all in it together. If my boos in committing a treason, and I work for him/her, then I too am committing a treason, from a legal perspective.

"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."

APFN Website

No record has been found that the State of Connecticut ever acted
to either accept or reject this original 13th Amendment. Yet, it
was published in three separate editions of "The Public Statute
Laws of the State of Connecticut" as a part of the U.S.
Constitution in 1821, 1824 and 1835. Then, without record or
explanation, it mysteriously disappeared from subsequent editions
prior to the Civil War between the states. However, printing by a
legislature is prima facie evidence of ratification, and it has
been found to have been printed as part of the Constitution in
this and many other states until around the Civil War period -
when it mysteriously disappeared from subsequent printings. It
was found to have been printed by the legislature of this State in
the following: 1821 - The Public Statute Laws of the State of
Connecticut, as revised and enacted by the General Assembly in
May, 1821 pg. 19 1824 - The Public Statute Laws of the State of
Connecticut, as revised and enacted by the General Assembly in
May, 1824 pg.18-19 1835 - The Public Statute Laws of the State of
Connecticut, compiled in obedience to a resolve of the General
Assembly passed May, 1835, to which is prefixed the Declaration of
Independence & Constitution of the United States and the State of
Connecticut, published by the authority of the State of
Connecticut. The Marginal note in all three publications reads:
"Citizenship forfeited by the acceptance, from a foreign power, of
any title of nobility, office or emolument of any kind, &c." The
prima facie evidence of ratification of this Amendment is
overwhelming. Since the creditors of this bankruptcy are foreign
powers and this "unacountable committee of lawyers'" spoken of by
Robert H. Bork have accepted and retained the "office of trustee"
for these creditors and foreign powers, their Citizenship has
been forfeited by this acceptance.

source

"Christian Militia".. ?

Hmm, never heard of that before. But heyho, I suppose nothing spreads the words of "love and peace" of Jesus like a nicely armed gang of trigger happy extremists.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I wonder if these christian militants think if Christ were alive today, he would be heading up the plans to slaughter police officers.

Must have missed that entry...

Milita 1:4-7
And Jesus said:
"Go forth, and kill the roman guards...then when everyone is at their funeral, go kill the ones attending...it will be great...God loves that kind of stuff" And the people listened, and they made pipe bombs...

One of those lesser known parts of the bible.

Your point is made however they are ridding this christian thing into the ground for obvious reasons. One would think that for the sake of all the mass amount of good christian/citizens of this country that would never do such a thing they would lighten up.

[edit on 29-3-2010 by Logarock]

So they were going to kill police officers and then attack the funeral to kill more of them?
This sounds goofy. This is not the plan of a patriotic group. This is the plan of some stooges.
I bet the group was infiltrated and set up as a way to trap the other militias.
One news story says that the Hutaree group called another militia group and asked if they could hide out with them --- obviously trying to set up the second militia group for trouble and search and seizure.

reply to post by Cabaret Voltaire



If this is what they had in mind then they should have been taken out. But its early yet.