Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

Oh god must this continue?

According to OP, since pedophilia is wrong and if it is accepted that pedophilia is not a choice, then it must be true for homosexuality. That's a big no-no.

So, to accept that homosexuality is not a choice is to accept that pedophilia is not a choice which means pedophiles can't help it and therefore they are innocent.


So everyone... OP's logic is clear now.

Let's end this stupid thread. It is clear that OP will not listen to reason.

I read the first page, and didn't read any more.

My stance is this....

The reason why we have male and female to begin with is for procreation purposes only. If we didn't, then we'd be androgynous, not needing another party at all. Heterosexuals are designed this way by nature. So what purpose is there for homosexuality at all, if not for self-gratification only? For that matter, ANY sex that serves self rather than the act of creation is selfish, is it not? So on that note, I'm inclined to side with the OP and other posters who say it is a choice. We all choose what we do and how we master our flesh and desires.

Of the people I've encountered being gay, only a small percentage have been gay their whole lives. All the others have flipped over to the "other side" after some traumatic relationship that went bad. i.e., lesbians who were raped, abused, molested, or even had the love of their life die and left them alone....then magically one day they decided that women were less threatening than males. Surprisingly, my gay male friends are not that much different, and a couple of them have also mentioned being molested or abused when young by dominant males in their life. Of course, this by no means makes it cut and dry for me, and the abuse and molestation is not predetermining factor. I know plenty of people who are not gay who have overcome these obstacles in their lives.

It should be noted I have many gay friends, but I don't discuss this stuff with them. It's their life and their decision, not mine.

HOWEVER, I have a very difficult time understanding where it comes from. I recall reading an article a while back that linked homosexual tendencies back to when they were in the womb - if the mother experience prolonged periods of increased cortisone from stress, then the cortisone would literally change the sexual orientation of the baby. I believe this article also claimed that it was in the DNA, but I've not seen solid evidence since then to support those claims.

At any rate, I have one thing to say, despite the genuine care I hold for all my gay friends....if it IS a gene, then they should NOT procreate AT ALL and risk passing those genes on. I am shocked by the sheer numbers of gays I see every day, and it's startling. Without a natural inclination to join yin to yang (instead of yin to yin and yang to yang), then the human race is in self destruction mode.

I would go further in adding to the OP that if this is INDEED a trait that is in the DNA, then shouldn't we be trying to find a cure? I don't mean to offend those on here who are gay, but strictly addressing this from a species survival aspect, it is certainly something that is destructive and abnormal. Granted, we're not in any danger of becoming extinct...yet. But SHOULDN'T we care about the genes we're passing on? Back in the day, couples use to visit the doctor to find out if their blood types were compatible, then the families would double check the family tree to make sure they weren't too closely related. Even further back, marriages were arranged based on auspicious dates, blood lines and genetic traits. These days, nothing seems to matter any more.

But here's where I get to make an equally startling statement....what if the blame is on the MOTHER? Then we have to ask why the mother is so stressed out. Is it her abusive mate? Or maybe no mate at all? Is it her job? Is it her finances? Society in general fosters a great deal of stress, period. As a race, I think we should take greater care of pregnant women, ensuring that they don't get too stressed. (Assuming that this article is correct, that is.) The blame appears to have fuzzy lines, as usual. Where does it begin......mostly importantly, where does it end?

here are many straight people who have plenty of sex, and never have kids. So, is that wrong too?

Alot of the stuff you say here is wrong. Alot of gay people know they are gay at a very early age. Oh, and by the way, we re not all born straight. Did you know you were straight all your life?If so, then i find that hard, considering as children we dont look at the oppisite sex like that. Its only as we get older and puberty hits, thens when things change.

Also, i hate hearing people so gay people are gay becase they has a bad relationship. What a load of rubbish. All i see here are people trying to justify gay people by saying what they think is the reason. Thats all, what they think. They dont know how a gay people feels and to me, its an insult to gay people.

And i say this agin. So all the gay people in these anti gay countries. Did they "choose" to be gay so they can be murderd, beaten up, and basically have a life of hell?

Us, as a race are still very primitve in thinking im afraid

Can't this society just live and let live?

I completely agree! When two adults are having consentual sex, who gives a hooch if they are the same or the opposite sex??

An even better question is why even care what others are doing in their bedroom? It's none of your business and has no influence over you (if you truly are straight).

It is fear/hate. They hate and fear that which can not be explained and thus things like "homphobia" form.

Make love not war. Love is a gift from God to forget all the pains.

Lets be gay now. Boink any guys every day and night like no tomorrow. Scream loudly like there's no hell.





[edit on 4 13 2010 by wisdomnotemotion]

Arguments against homosexuality and counterarguments:

1) Homosexuality is wrong because it is a choice to act against nature.

My counterarguments: a) Homosexuality appears to occur naturally in the animal kingdom. How then is homosexuality somehow aberrant? b) There is no proof that homosexuality is a choice. Assuming that it is however, why does it being a choice make it inherently wrong or flawed?

2) Homosexuality is wrong because only heterosexual sexual acts have a potential to result in reproduction.

My counterarguments: a) Are those heterosexuals who engage in sexual acts but are infertile aberrations of nature? b) Are those heterosexuals who engage in sexual acts but use contraception because they choose to be responsible and do not feel that they are prepared for parenthood aberrations of nature?

3) Despite all above counterarguments, homosexuality is wrong because it is inherently wrong because it just is.

My counterargument: This is simply a fallacious argument with no supporting basis.

I respect everyone's opinions, but I have yet to see any credible argument that would invalidate the above points definitively.

This is ignorent and unproductive. There is even scientific evidence that shows the nuerology in homosexuals is slightly different than heterosexuals just as there is a slight difference in nuerology between males and females.

This is completely backwards thinking to suggest homosexuality is a choice. I understand some poeple can be just curious and want to experience what it is like to be with a man as the same thing occurs in homosexuals. Some homosexuals are curious about having a sexual experience with a women. But a true homosexual can not choose to like women more than men. There is so much more evidence to suggest this as none of the therapies that try to convert homosexuals ever work.

They have to deal with all kinds of crap from people like you and some are driven to suicide because of this bull#. You think your helping anyone out with this crap? You think you shining a light on the situation?

This is absurd and you just lost all respect in my book.

Originally posted by Hullabaloo
This is ignorent and unproductive. There is even scientific evidence that shows the nuerology in homosexuals is slightly different than heterosexuals just as there is a slight difference in nuerology between males and females.

This is completely backwards thinking to suggest homosexuality is a choice. I understand some poeple can be just curious and want to experience what it is like to be with a man as the same thing occurs in homosexuals. Some homosexuals are curious about having a sexual experience with a women. But a true homosexual can not choose to like women more than men. There is so much more evidence to suggest this as none of the therapies that try to convert homosexuals ever work.

They have to deal with all kinds of crap from people like you and some are driven to suicide because of this bull#. You think your helping anyone out with this crap? You think you shining a light on the situation?

This is absurd and you just lost all respect in my book.

Well said. But you have to realise that people like this will never change their mind. No matter what you say, they will hold the same views. But he has disapeared again anyway, so maybe this thread can die. I think people have made it clear that they disagree with him completly. Well, apart from a few haters

D1ss1dent--

If you truly believe that statement of yours to be true, then I would have to opine (by the sheer banality of your jejeune expressions) that you yourself do not know the first rudiments of the Nature of 'true love' - you sound like a pre-pubescent teenager (or maybe that's just your emotional age?) who thinks two men holding hands in public is 'yucky'.

But in a way, I have to thank you for providing us on this discussion with a near-perfect example of what we call 'the blindness of societal programming', born from lifelong exposure to a woefully unsophisticated cultural millieu wholly lacking in the capacity for original thinking and the concomitant puerile rigidity stemming from an inferior education.

This is what a modern anthropologist would call 'the rural imbecility of the herd' or as Qvintvs Horativs Flaccvs once wrote in his Odes:

Odi Profanum Vulgus, et Arceo.

& I (for one) could not have summed it up better in this case as it pertains to the attitude you have voiced on this thread.

Well, to approach this from a philosophical standpoint, I'd say that "we", collectively, are confused on the issue, and we're simply debating it within the collective mind. That's what humans do....we debate, we influence, we learn, we form opinions, we change opinions, and we learn some more. No sense in getting upset about it. We need to learn how to separate ourselves from the physical experience, STOP directing personal attacks, and STOP taking statements as personal attacks - this is not about YOU, this is about US as a whole. We are NOT what we do in bed...we are spirits in human bodies, reacting to the desires of our own flesh...think and debate this from the spirit stance, and not from the physical stance, and maybe, just MAYBE we could have an educated debate about it. Clearly, if the whole world agreed with same-sexed relations, then we wouldn't have this problem, now would we? I figure it's about like having your right hand fighting your left hand...we're all part of the whole, so let's approach it as such.

I don't think it's wrong for anyone to voice their thoughts or opinions. I love my gay friends the same as I love my hippie friends, my conservative friends, my military friends and my anti-government friends. No one is pushing their agendas here, but everyone wants to feel heard, because that's how humans are wired.

I don't know what it's like to be gay, so therefore I cannot adequately empathize. I've had gay dreams, and I've looked at people who are my own sex and I've thought, "dang, they're hot - if I were gay....", but it doesn't make me gay. I've been hit on and invited to do strange things over the years, and if I had said yes to all those things, no telling how messed up my life would be right now. But that's just it....I made a choice....scratch that, I made MANY choices to stay on one particular path, and I don't regret it. But for ME...my experiences have been a CHOICE, and my life could have been completely different had I chosen to say yes one too many times.

So, for ME, I would ask gays to understand how I've formed my own opinions based on my own experiences. I've CHOSEN this life. I do not have gay tendencies, but I can easily see how if I let my youthful curiosity get the better of me, I could be sitting here arguing the other side of the debate. So if I have experienced this, you can understand how I can come to the conclusion that many self-proclaiming gays have arrived at their "gayness" by the same methods that were presented to me all those years ago....except they said yes and never stopped saying yes.

Now, this doesn't mean I believe ALL gays fall under this umbrella, but I do believe a lot do. For the other VERY small percentage, I do believe there is a DNA issue, which I mentioned before. In which case, I want to know if it's good or bad....and if it's bad, then maybe we need a cure. I say "we", because our collective body is growing enormously with the gay community and it DOES affect each of us. The "live and let live" concept is great, and I agree to a certain extent. However, what people don't realize is that when you witness something in someone else, it is a reflection of you and what is going on in the collective human spirit. So "we" DO need to be interested in this, and we DO need to talk about it, and we DO need to explore it from a truthful standpoint so that we can either adjust to it correctly or fix it if it needs to be fixed.

Can everyone understand where I'm coming from, without feeling offended? I am not offended by harsh gay comments because I'm straight, and no one here should feel offended because you are gay. Insulting you is the same as insulting myself, and vice versa. You are a part of me, and I'm a part of you, plain and simple. If we all approached every problem or conflict in the world with this same philosophy, people would pause before they said anything, and would immediately consider what it is about themselves they don't like, that they see reflected in the world around them.

reply to post by emeraldzeus


This is my preference, as well; to communicate, inform, and learn without attacking. Attacking does nothing but create further inflammation between people which further reduces the likelihood of honest and productive communication and learning, in my view.

The problems arise when people reject information for the purpose of adhering to their own viewpoints. The free synthesis of knowledge through influence and learning, facilitated by respectful and peaceful communication that you describe, are how I believe we should all conduct our dealings. I don't see those who believe homosexuality is a choice as "evil" anymore than I do homosexuals (who I do not believe have a choice in their sexuality.) Nevertheless, many of the former seem to utterly dismiss out of hand any evidence that homosexuality is natural and not a personal choice or preference.

What do we do then? I agree that attacking those individuals is never the solution, personally. That's why I simply post what information and experiences I have, and let everyone else's discussions and thoughts make of it what they will. It's just sad that often homosexuals are discriminated against and decried by those who are not open to even the possibility that they might be wrong. The free flow of communication and the respect you elude to require open minds in my opinion.

Though I dont agree, im going to give my opinion. Having sex with another man, is a choice. BUT, having feelings for another man is not a choice.

And this is my reasons behind it. I ask you or anyone else as a straight male, if you yourself could so easily or at all, force yourself to have feelings for another man or force yourself to be sexually attracted to another man, being straight. Can you?

Its the same with homosexual males. They are simply not attracted to woman, and even if they wanted to, just like you, they probably could not force themselves to be attracted or sexually attracted to females.

Therefore I dont see why they would live a miserable life having sex with woman and dateing woman when they werent feeling it and did not want to, just because other people say its wrong or a sin.

But you brought up a good question and I look forward to the answer of my question.

I believe that in humans, both options are possible. I know several gay people who adamantly admit that its a lifestyle choice. I know several that say it has always felt natural to them and they believe they're "wired" to be gay. Why does the answer have to be one or the other for all gay people?

According to Natural Selection, if our DNA mutates and drives us to a non-breeding sexual lifestyle, then its possible that the DNA recognizes a flaw that it does not want to be continued in the gene-pool. Meaning that genetically gay people MIGHT (this is a theory based on natural selection. i'm not putting this forward as fact) have some defect that is not supposed to be passed on.

However, in modern times, with our ability to breed via science and not via sex, then even someone with that possible DNA flaw would still be able to pass it down.

Again, not putting this out as a final position. Just more of a thought experiment.

But my short answer is: Both options are more likely the case than either option by itself.

Originally posted by josheboyxiii

But my short answer is: Both options are more likely the case than either option by itself.

Absolutely if you are in the middle of the spectrum.

NOT if you are to one end or the other.

Does anyone on this thread think that HETEROSEXUALITY is a choice? Some have opined that HETEROSEXUALITY is only the result of programing by families and Society to procreate for its own survival and has nothing to do with nature at all.

I wonder if this is in anyway true, since there are so many persons on this tiny planet who (for example) stick to the 'religion' they were 'raised with' by their families/society, even if they don't really 'believe' in it.

People seem to be incredibly influenced (especially from childhood) into believing THIS ACTION IS RIGHT and THIS ACTION IS WRONG basically 'because my MOMMY told me...'

Could this be the case with sexuality too? that HETEROSEXUALS merely CHOOSE to take the PATH of LEAST resistence so their families won't disown them?

Originally posted by Sigismundus
Could this be the case with sexuality too? that HETEROSEXUALS merely CHOOSE to take the PATH of LEAST resistence so their families won't disown them?

Yep i am sure plenty of queer males just go along even though they really are not that interested in females.

Just like breathing is a 'choice'.

You can stop any time you choose.

In fact if you would like help, i would love to help you.

[edit on 22-4-2010 by slank]

reply to post by slank


Its technically not a choice, its controlled most of the time by the subconscious and we can interrupt it, that in turn meaning we are not choosing to breath, but our body is automatically doing it.

Anyway back onto topic.

I personally think homosexuality is a mix of things, yes there are a few scientific papers suggesting its something to do with DNA, some suggest its to do with testosterone deficiency. Even some papers suggest homosexuals brains work the same way as females.

But i split homosexuality into two groups, nature and nurture, meaning the following:

Nature: The biological approach, you are born gay, either because of DNA or testosterone deficiency, or any other biological reason.

Nurture: The psychological approach, something like lack of a father figure, lack of things that condition a male to act the social norm.

I've met loads of gay people and am gay myself, yet I haven't heard of one case where they have said they are the way they are out of choice.

Bi-sexual people of course do have a choice between which sex they will have a relationship with, even though they are still attracted to the same sex.

You say we can't procreate, yet we are fertile. Gay couples can be fantastic parents and can have children from one of the partners in that relationship with a donor of some sorts. Just like hetro couples where one is infertile, they will seek a donor, are they wrong too?

I'd much rather see people have children who decide to have them rather than see children being created by accident.