Homosexuality is a choice and nothing else!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Okay, I know i'm going to get flamed here
and people, let's keep it civil so mods don't delete the thread!

Too many people say that homosexuality is not a choice, some say "I know how I feel, I feel diferent", of course you feel different... you are different!

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what. Lets just rely on logic.

If it is not mutation but also isnt a choice then heterosexuals would also say it is not a choice. And saying it is a choice means it is a mental decision while saying it is not is a physical one.

Thoughts

Wouldn't a genetic mutation suggest different thought patterns, thus....it is probably natural to that particular person....

So its not a choice its how this person thinks....its what hes attracted to, no different then what you'll find in all species in nature.

I just don't get these homosexuality posts. I mean who cares? Why would I waste my time and energy to concern myself (to this substantial degree) with the sexual exploits of my fellow brothers & sisters? Perhaps the underlying issue is a subconscious issue in the mind of the OP. Perhaps an unresolved interest in exploration of the Gay lifestyle. My advise, put the Judy Garland records on. Crank the Hi Fi dial to 10 and proudly step out of the closet. PEACE

Originally posted by HUMBLEONE
I just don't get these homosexuality posts. I mean who cares? Why would I waste my time and energy to concern myself (to this substantial degree) with the sexual exploits of my fellow brothers & sisters? Perhaps the underlying issue is a subconscious issue in the mind of the OP. Perhaps an unresolved interest in exploration of the Gay lifestyle. My advise, put the Judy Garland records on. Crank the Hi Fi dial to 10 and proudly step out of the closet. PEACE

You will find this in many cases. Some people who go out of there way to put gay people down, chances are, they are gay, or confused, and the best way to hide it is to throw hate at them because you want people to know that you are straight. I would say to the OP to go with his feelings. If he is gay, he is gay. Or if he is confused, then try to talk to someone about it.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

The problem I always have with people who claim homosexuality is genetic is; how is the gay gene passed down if gays aren't interested in the type of sex that results in children?

it could be a recessive gene, so unless two parents have that gene there is no chance the gene would show up

reply to post by Odin57410

Who says gay people don't have children?
In many cultures having children is a duty, while people practice their true proclivities in private.
Charles had two children with Diana, but always loved Camilla.

Gay people are not intersex or transgender, they are normal men and women attracted to the same sex, and many have had children, and will continue to have children.

However, just like straight people have options (like serial monogamy and divorce) in modern times, so gay people in non-homophobic societies now have a choice to raise those children legitimately in open, truthful relationships.

reply to post by halfoldman


Do you honestly believe it's right for a child to be raised by two same sex parents?

reply to post by Death_Kron

I think good parenting depends on so many factors, and just being gay or straight doesn't automatically make anyone a good candidate for parenting.
But, yeah, especially in a supportive community of uncles, aunts and grandparents, gays and lesbians can be great parents.
We never question single moms or single-sex boarding schools.
I think if a couple is closely scrutinized and chosen by adoption services then the sexual orientation of the parents makes no difference.
If couples have some private way of gaining children using their own fertility then nobody can really interfere.
There are all kinds of questions around adoption.
In SA (considering our officially segregated past) the main issue is race.
Many black people feel that whites shouldn't adopt a black child.
Yet, blacks don't have a culture of adopting children unless they are part of the clan or extended family.
So many Aids orphans will spend their youth in boarding schools and under-resourced orphanages (if they are lucky - many become street-children).
So these debates are quite abstract, because gay couples or adoptive parents are successfully getting on with it, despite all the nonsense that people speak.
People in polygamous marriages are also having kids (like our President) and they also turn out normal.
I cannot believe that the US wants to arrest polygamous parents.

Most of the abuse seems to go on where nobody is looking - "normal", religious, heterosexual suburbia.
I saw a clip from the southern US on "Wife Swap" and this straight couple had a daughter who was just winning beauty pageants since she was nine-moths old. Her parents did all her homework, and just wanted her to be pretty. As a teenager she had no basic spelling skills, or basic history and maths skills.
Now people like that should not have children.

reply to post by halfoldman


Fair enough, good points. Without wanting to bring up a raft of old posts, I've asked that question before and in all honesty my opinion changes each time; your probably right but I still can't shake the feeling that it's not "right" for a child to be brought up either by two mums or two dads.

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by halfoldman

 

Do you honestly believe it's right for a child to be raised by two same sex parents?

Yes, I do. I know two such families, and I don't see what the issue is. In fact, the inferences are offensive.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Well, that's understandable.
Religious homophobic groups dwell on those stereotypes, and like to reinforce them.
However, if one thinks about it "moms" and "dads" are roles that have changed for heterosexuals too.
Some straight relationships these days may have a very gentle dad, and a workaholic mom.
At least generally a lot of the violence against women and children that was socially tolerated in the 1950's (even until the 1970's and 1980's) as an excusable hallmark of masculinity is now increasingly unacceptable.
Is being a mom or dad about what those roles have between their legs?
(Which would imply that Freud was right, and childhood is a perversion of "penis envy" for girls and an Oedipus complex for boys - yeah, very healthy.)
I think those roles are about nurturing in different ways, and have nothing to do with the sex organs of the parents.
Gender roles are between the ears, and even straight people do not not always conform to them.

What I find unnatural and dated is how religious propaganda deals with this.
I have a Christian book about the so-called "gay agenda" (The Pink Agenda (Hammond and McCafferty), and the cover shows two stick figures with triangular dresses saying "mom", "dad" above them.
How many women only wear triangular dresses?
What does this imply about the people who wrote the book and the fears they are evoking?
It appears they have an agenda to keep society static and nostalgic for an abusive form of patriarchy.

I believe homosexuality, heterosexuality, bisexuality etc... is a choice. Everything in this reality is a choice. Depending on your choice (thoughts, believe, past events, fear, love etc) will create the universe you want and will lead to future events.

Those type of sexuality are just words with meanings that could describe what it means so basically they don't mean anything. What matters is the emotion behind it. If you are a guy and you like/love another guy is the emotion that you put to it. It is only a matter of perception.

Now, there is two type of love. Love from the brain and love from the heart. If you think and believe you are gay, then you are in your reality. Others will perceive it as being "gay", others will perceive it as being what a cool guy, even though he is gay. Being homosexual doesn't really matter. homesexuality is just a concept to determine if a human love the same physical anatomy.

In the end, we're all the same right? If humans on the earth would stop thinking for a moment and use their heart and see the deepness of a person instead of trying to determine what he is, peace would be.

I can be an homosexual, i can be a bisexual or whatever. I don't care. The worst thing in that is, the humans that think they are homosexual will act as a fag "girly way" to make other people perceive those persons as homosexual. This is really bad because when a person does that he is just trying to accept his thoughts that he is gay, that is different. He really wants to believe his thoughts so badly that he act like that. But in the end, he will be the same with the same heart, with the thoughts and will die unhappy.

It is just a question of perception. Forget the physical... love from the heart Ex; When a mother gives birth to her child, the tear that she drops is pure love... from the heart and not the brain.

I say i love my girlfriend, yea i love her but from my thoughts... it makes my thoughts happy with my environnement until my thoughts change then it brokes up. Think about it ... A mother will always love her son even though his thoughts are different from hers. unconditional love...

So to respond to your question. Yes, homosexuality is a choice... it is thought... a believe to make your past/current and future thoughts in harmony, but the question is: Are you really in harmony? or it is just your thoughts... if it is your thoughts, then deeply you are un-happy.

love to all.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by Blinded
I can be an homosexual, i can be a bisexual or whatever. I don't care.

Unless you are speaking rhetorically, I'd suggest that you would have to be Bi...because straights just don't think that way. So it seems that the point you miss is just because it is a matter of personal choice to you, it follows that it is the same for all. 'Fraid not.

reply to post by Blinded


It annoys the hell out of me that some people believe that we choose to be gay,bi or straight. I did not choose to fall in love with my wife. I did not choose to love my mum,dad,sisters,brothers etc. I did not meet my wife and think"oh, im going to choose to be attracted to you, and then i am going to choose to love you. Its all a load of rubbish in my opinion.

Ok, letes look at the gay people that live in countries where being gay is a crime. Do they choose to be gay so they can be beated,toutured and murdered? You say that is a complete insult to the people who have suffered for being gay!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Okay, I know i'm going to get flamed here
and people, let's keep it civil so mods don't delete the thread!

Too many people say that homosexuality is not a choice, some say "I know how I feel, I feel diferent", of course you feel different... you are different!

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

There is so much data out there, some saying it is a choice some saying not, there is both so now what. Lets just rely on logic.

If it is not mutation but also isnt a choice then heterosexuals would also say it is not a choice. And saying it is a choice means it is a mental decision while saying it is not is a physical one.

Thoughts

Many people who believe in reincarnation say that the person in their last life was a man and now in this life is in a woman's body.... and that some now in this life are in a man's body... but were a female in their last life and they choose to hold on to their femininity and/or masculinity from the previous life they had before their current one. (Please don't shoot the messenger!...this is what some people believe)

Too many people say that homosexuality is not a choice, some say "I know how I feel, I feel diferent", of course you feel different... you are different!

But to say that homosexuality is not a choice and there is some DNA change causing homosexuality doesn't mean you are calling them mutants?

I am serious, if they are not homosexual by choice then please explain to me how that is not mutation.
No I am not calling homosexual mutants, if YOU say they do not make that choice then YOU are saying they are!

Having grown up with a gay brother, I'm pretty convinced it's not a choice. He didn't WANT or CHOOSE to be the way he is.

Looking back, there are plenty of signs. It's simply part of who he is. It'd be easy to say he CHOSE this, but I simply don't believe it's so. I don't think he chose to be so different or chose a lifestyle that is scorned by others.

Whether it's genetic, or a brain abnormality, or simply natural, who knows (nobody yet), but I really don't think choice factors into it.

Did I CHOOSE to be hetero? No, I don't think so. I simply find women attractive. The idea of sex with a dude is pretty repugnant to me, but I'll support another's right to happiness. Conversely, the idea of two women together = HOT, so does that make me a mutant too? If so, I want some kind of cool mutant power....but I'm not going to Xavier's school.....

reply to post by Gazrok

Having grown up with a gay brother, I'm pretty convinced it's not a choice. He didn't WANT or CHOOSE to be the way he is.

Looking back, there are plenty of signs. It's simply part of who he is. It'd be easy to say he CHOSE this, but I simply don't believe it's so. I don't think he chose to be so different or chose a lifestyle that is scorned by others.

Whether it's genetic, or a brain abnormality, or simply natural, who knows (nobody yet), but I really don't think choice factors into it.

Did I CHOOSE to be hetero? No, I don't think so. I simply find women attractive. The idea of sex with a dude is pretty repugnant to me, but I'll support another's right to happiness. Conversely, the idea of two women together = HOT, so does that make me a mutant too? If so, I want some kind of cool mutant power....but I'm not going to Xavier's school.....

I agree with you 100% My brother and sister are gay. My brother was a very popular bloke when he was younger, but when he came out, he lost almost everything. He had to leave his hometown because he lost all his friends and got abuse. At one point he did think about suicide.

Now, he has a long term partner and is very happy. It really annoys the hell out of me when some people say its a choice. These people are ignorant and arrogant to think this, but to be honest, you will never get through to them. Maybe they are confussed themselves about there sexuality. You find in some cases that gay bashers are actually gay, so it would not suprise me. Oh look, i have just told them how their mind works!! How annoying is that for them!

reply to post by Emerald The Paradigm


Not entirely. Do you believe that Jesus is God? If you do, then your Jesus God never spoke to the issue of homosexuality. If you don't believe that Jesus is God, that still leaves him to be the Son of God, and the "word" of God, and in either case, Jesus never spoke to the issue of homosexuality. To be clear about homosexuality as mentioned in scriptures, you must be knowledgeable about what type of homosexuality the scripture is speaking to and when.

And, what is your take on Naomi and Ruth, and David and Jonathan?

reply to post by dampnickers


There is this wonderful documentary I watched. It's called 'Wild Sex'. It exhibits many strange sexual things in the animal kingdom, such as female hyenas giving other female hyenas head, two male lions engaging in homosexual sex, molluscs involved in orgies, naked mole rats mating with their mothers, chimpanzees using hand-made dildos to masturbate, male dolphins gang-raping female dolphins (and sometimes other males), dragonfly's digging other male's semen out of the female...

I'd recommend you watch it, of you have doubts. Everything wonderful and disturbing that people do, animals do too.

There is NOTHING unnatural about homosexuality. People who think there is, are blocking themselves off from love and pleasure. (So are absolute homosexuals, too, in my opinion), but it isn't a choice. A lesbian woman might spend most of her life, due to society's oppression, trying to be attracted to men, even engaging in sex with men, and it just doesn't do it for her.

A gay friend of mine spent many years having sex with women, but he didn't enjoy it at all, and stopped repressing himself and trying to change who he was, eventually.

Can a straight man help the fact he is arroused by erotic images of nude women? No. Can he help the fact he isn't aroused by an image of an equally erotic image of a nude male? No. It is not a choice.

I'm a pansexual woman, and I think deep down, all of us really are pansexual.

Originally posted by breakherlegs
I'm a pansexual woman, and I think deep down, all of us really are pansexual.

I am fascinated by the fact that people tend to define everyone else's sexuality by their own. I think that is a big mistake. I am very tolerant of gays, even though the thought of me indulging in gay sex is abhorrent. To me.

That's my problem...but it's the way I'm wired. That does not give me call to judge others, I figure.

Live and let live.

Dude, it is neither a choice, nor a 'mutation'.
In the same manner of which someone finds blondes attractive, and someone else likes large breasts, and someone else likes muscle, and someone else likes a sense of humor... -.-
It's really just a matter of preference.

That preference can not be changed. It can be repressed, but that will most likely lead to unhappiness.

I just don't understand why so many people have such an issue with homosexuality, as if it is a terrible crime which causes harm, or something. It is just love and sexual arousal.

Nobody bring up the whole 'gays can't reproduce' argument, because I most heterosexual people I know aren;t screwing each other to make babies. Seriously.

Or the 'a child needs a mother and father figure', 'cause I know plenty of single parents who bring their children up okay. Gay couples don't nessecarily raise gay children. If that were the case, seeing as gays can't breed, there wouldn't be any heterosexuals givig birth to gays, right? >.>

Animals indulge in gay sex all the time, so saying it isn't natural doesn't work either.

As for the marriage thing, I really don't see how it effects you if two dudes, ro two chicks get married. It effects you no more then some dude and some chick getting married does. HOWEVER, I do have a respect for religions, and some religious people disagree with it (Because even though the Bible also says stuff like 'don't cut your hair' and 'women who aren't virgins at marriage should be killed', it does also say 'men should not lay with other men), so I do think that if a certain priest doesn't want to have to perform that ceremony, then he shouldn't have to...

Really.... I just don't understand why heterosexuals spend so much time thinking about and talking about gay sex and marriage. Why don't you leave that to the homosexuals themselves? >.> Srsly.