Originally posted by Helig
I tend to try not to steal things, and even in a survival situation its still theft if its not explicitly my property.

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Is it stealing if you think the owners are dead? What is the difference between stealing and salvage?

Originally posted by NotThat
In the book, "The Road" by Cormac McMarthy, the father found a hidden bunker full of survival supplies including cases of food. He stayed for a few days and then moved on. He never stayed long in any one place, thinking it was safer to keep moving.

I just got done reading it... They left because of dogs bringing attention to the area. Dogs owned by the cannibals, most likely...

It left you guessing.

its ugly but i think i'd fool the guy first,then snap his neck,burn the bunker.Im kidding,but its not in everyone's heart to kill another human being for survival. I would like to think most people on ats feel the same way,however,you never know how you would react

Originally posted by Arkady
oppapaperclip, what is the point of surviving if you have to kill children to do it?

Easy, you get to play the game a bit longer and try and make up for past sins...

In a world's-end situation, it's kill or be killed, eat or be eaten

Anyone who thinks otherwise won't last long

Forums are filled with people boasting about their well-stocked hideouts and those in the know just smile. Because some people imagine a world's-end scenario being like a movie or kid's fantasy, where you and your family/group sit there comfortably in the cave or hideout/whatever, watching the unprepared stumbling past

Listen, the more you have to protect, the more vulnerable you are

If you're sitting there in your well-stocked bunker down by the stream, you'll have to guard it --- with your lives -- 24/7

You'd be crazy to think otherwise for one second

The have-nots will take from the haves and they won't think twice about killing, raping, torturing, to get what they want

They will form roaming gangs. They'll be ruthless, merciless. They will stake out your bunker or whatever and approach from all sides. Or they'll smoke or burn you out. They will fake it and scream horrifyingly in the scrub for hours on end, pleading for water, for help. You'll need a lot of nerve to wait it out. And your nerves will be shredded by every snapped twig, every bird-call, every silence

You'll be there in your bunker with your gang fighting exhaustion. You'll be sweating like pigs, afraid to make a noise or even to whisper to each other. You'll have to soil yourself where you crouch, all of you

If you manage to survive the first encounter, you'll be too scared to leave your bunker/cave afterwards. Your hideout will stink. You'll go stir-crazy and begin to argue. One of your group will snap. You'll have to slash their throat to silence them in order to safeguard the rest. That's likely to cause a mutiny within remaining members

Some of your group will freak and say they're getting out .. they just can't stand it. The rest of you will bar their way, because if they blab or are tortured, then your hideout will be secret no more

So you'll have a war within your hideout and you'll be staked-out from outside. You'll wish you were dead

If you manage to win against one group of starving, ruthless invaders, the noise of the battle will alert who knows how many other roaming gangs out there in the wilderness

You wo't be able to use a fire, because the smoke and scent of cooked food will be like an invitation to the starving

You'll wish you were dead. In the end, you might even kill your group and yourself to prevent yourselves dying, now or tomorrow, at less kind hands

Originally posted by Dock9


The have-nots will take from the haves and they won't think twice about killing, raping, torturing, to get what they want

They will form roaming gangs. They'll be ruthless, merciless.

That is pretty much what happened in all the recient disasters. Gangs of young men took whatever they wanted.

So just sit and die?

I still think cooperative groups are the way to survive.

when the appololypse comes i hope im very very very far away from most of the people in this thread!

by the sounds of it , any sort of survivial situation is going to be used as an excuse for executionfest 2012!

USA!!! USA!!! USA!!! USA!!!

if it was an end of times situation, yes, protection is all very well, but theirs no point freeking surviving if its just you, your wife and 2 kids with you and noone else... whats going to happen to the human race, are you all going to breed with your children or something, considering you will already have killed anyone that comes within 100 meters of you? think about it!

If it was obvious they weren't coming back, I'd stay in the bunker. In a survival setting, you have to make sure you are okay. I would not consider that stealing because the bunker had been abandoned.

If the people came back, I'd sweet talk them when they arrived and prove to them how useful I could be.

If they insisted that I leave, I'd leave and find somewhere else to go.

Either way, eventually I'd have to find others to survive and get things going again.

Are any of your watching the BBC show "Survivors"? I think this is a realistic account of what would occur. Some people will go crazy, but many people will just band together because they have to.

Haha, I just watched "The Road" the other day and was mentally putting myself in that situation. He did a lot of things I wouldn't have done for sure, but in a SHTF situation I agree that banding together is the best option. But that will require work ahead of time, because once the s*** does hit the fan people (in general) will be in hysterics. So once the mass wave of looting and plundering, I think it will just come down to the point where no one really trusts anyone.

For the question, I think it's just very situational. In "The Road" the father did see a dead body in the house before finding the bunker. In which case, his reasoning would be ok the owner has passed away this is ours for the taking. In the movie he was spooked by the sound of a dog and with that dog it's owners, but he did take food with him in a cart.

So in that scenario, I would do the same. He had prof that at least one of the owners was dead and if any where left alive why would they keep their loved ones decomposing body in the house?

Now if the house did looked lived in and there was evidence of people, I'd stick to the tree lines and observe to determine would course of action to take, but I wouldn't go sneaking into their bunker or take it by force.

But you also have to think about a Russia in Afghanistan scenario... The tenacious Mujahideen would find a cache of food left behind by fast-moving Soviets, right, consume it and either die of poisoning or find out (too late) that they had consumed tracking devices, so the Soviets would come back and kill their asses later.

As that pertains to a SHTF scenario in America, I can easily envision booby-trapped bunkers, poisoned food & water, and straight up man-traps — Build an inviting bunker, stock it up, then retreat into the surrounding terrain and WAIT for somebody to come loot it.

Whereupon you surround the interlopers, take their supplies, and either kill them or enlist them into your service, right.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
But you also have to think about a Russia in Afghanistan scenario... The tenacious Mujahideen would find a cache of food left behind by fast-moving Soviets, right, consume it and either die of poisoning or find out (too late) that they had consumed tracking devices, so the Soviets would come back and kill their asses later.

You know the most interesting things! Thanks for sharing.
It never occured to me that a cache of food could be poisened and left as bait for people.

If it does come to this then everything is going to be tits up. People are going to get killed, raped, beaten and tortured, Survival instincts kick in and we'll see humanitys true colours.

Personally i would just adapt depending on the situation. Its good to have allies but if i was desprate or there wasn't food i wouldn't think 2x about killing other people to get what i need.

Originally posted by BaldTaillessApe
if i was desprate or there wasn't food i wouldn't think 2x about killing other people to get what i need.

I have decided that I will share my food and I will do my best not kill anyone. It would be better to die than to live without compassion.