Originally posted by Grambler
So you admit that your code can influence a judges decision. As you put it, if you put the code "AH" the judge could decide to "not give a break"
to the defendant. Hence the argument that you have been making the whole thread, that your code has no bearing on a judges decision, is not
Only in a good way. Again your blurring the lines between being cut a break or paying full price for YOUR violation. People on here have been trying
to say the code is illegal and unfair, its not unfair because you still broke the law and are paying the full cost of the ticket. NOT MORE! People
are making it out that my code is taking a Stop Sign ticket and making it more than what it is...and thats simply untrue. They are saying YOUR NOT
THE JUDGE...thats right, I am not, and that has NOTHING to do with the code. YOUR STILL GUILTY! Is the real issue that being an ahole makes you pay
full price rather then half price? So is the REAL argument people are pissed because nice REASONABLE people who act like grown ups may not get a
ticket or pay as much for the same violation?
What you don't understand is that it it is not your job to "judge" people, it is your job to enforce the law and arrest and cite people, and
then let judges determine if they are innocent or guilty.
Again i am not deciding guilt or innocense, see that blurry like. I may be deciding if you pay full proce for your violation with my code, but not
that your guilty of it.
By introducing extra opinions on behaviors into the case, something that has nothing to do with rather or not a law was broken, you have the
potential to influence a judges decision based on more than mere facts, and that is illegitmate.
It may make a judge decide to not make someone pay full price, may make a judge throw it out, but again the violation DID occur. So arguing
"innocense" isn't getting you anywhere. Again the blurred line. the person who paid only $5 who was nice, compared to your $50 who was not, is
still as guilty.
Your claims that they broke the law anyway are insufficient. As an LEO, you are not a judge, and I know this might be shocking, you can make
mistakes. That is why we have a seperate body for judging the crimes.
Again, NOT judging the crime, BLURRY LINE....focus! Nice person is also guilty, just handled it better, meaning better outcome for that GUILTY
Look at it this way, I would imagine that of all the people you personally cite and arrest, not all of them have been found guilty (unless your
some kind of crazy supercop). But in a crazy Judge Dredd type world were you are a police officer and judge, evryone you arrest you would find
guilty. This proves that the courts at least sometimes find your assessment of them being absolutely guilty to be wrong.
If I arrest you, your guitly cause I have proof of such. I am not going to take you to jail and charge you with something I cannot PROVE happened.
That is a waste of time. Hell ask all the women who get PISSED when we go to the house because she says he is beating her and she doesn't have a
mark on her....ANYWHERE, yet her statement is, he choked me and kicked me...ok, where? Can't show it, I can't arrest...its called probable cause.
Make him leave for the night and help he get a TPO, sure, but sorry maam, no jail for him.
Even though you are "100 %" sure that someone commited a violation, they should still have to be found guilty in a court.
Agreed and nowhere have I ever stated differently.
So your claims that regardless of the codes you write, "they still broke the law" might not be true, and now your code may persuade a judge
from looking at just more than the facts making the case more of a popularity contest than an actual fair hearing.
Correction...I read that wrong...sorry. I meant, he only looks at the facts. The code has NO bearing on guilt or innocence of the crime, it only has
bearing on his decision to fine you for the crime, or how much. No judge I ever went infront of looked at my tickets and said hey, he put AH, hey
defendant, your guilty, I don't care about anything else but the AH. They have ALWAYS looked at the facts and detrmined if I had PC.
You also didn't answer the point about judges possibly being corrupt or vindictive. Even though you are a good, honest cop, the judge may not
be so honest. He may want to teach someone a lesson just for being rude, and use your code as an excuse to overlook the facts of the case and just
I am sure there are some corrupt judges out there...I have been lucky to have not sat before one that i know of...or atleast on my cases. As for
overlooking the facts of the case, I agree that would be wrong, but I can't see a judge doing so when he knows it could be his a@@ and a cushy job
goes bye bye...of course weirder things have happened.
Also, I'm not sure how it is in Georgia, but here in PA we have varying amounts of fines you can get for traffic violations. In that case,
maybe a judge gives someone a maximum fine of like $250 instead of the normal $100 fine they would normally give because your code showed they were a
jerk and deserved it.
Exactly...this is the real argument I think most are trying to bring up. They are mad that one person only got the $100 fine. They got the $250
fine...why...LOOK IN THE MIRROR...(not you, the violater...lol) Their behavior got them the full amount, NOT a question of guilt...see the blurry
line. GUILTY is still guilty, their piss poor attitude got them the full fine...blame the cop all they want, had they not been children, they would
of saved $150. Also, I worked in PA before GA...lol. Reading/Berks County.
Either way, you have claimed all through this thread that you are someone who is only finding people guilty on the basis of the law, and so why
take the chance of screwing it up? If we look at it from a positive/negative point of view:
I am not screwing it up. The code isn't in place of probable cause or evidence. It reverts back to the above issue...$$$$$, not guilt.
Negatives: has the potential to be used to decide cases based on like or dislike of defendants rather than actual guilt, and even worse as the
OP video shows could lead to widespread accusations and mistrust of law enforcement
I still don't see it deciding cases. Deciding punishments, sure, deciding the guilty part, no. Like I said, the nice guy was still guilty too, the
courts decided his behavior earned him a lesser fine, the AH was also guitly, just not cut a break.
Positives: you have yet to give any other than it somehow pleases you
I don't have to give positives, PLENTY of drivers who got cut breaks posted here glad they got the code and acted right. That in a nutshell says it
As someone who clearly is concerned with the sanctity of the law, it seems as though your only moral choice would be to stop using the codes.
My feeling on the law are still the same. If you don't run the stop sign you can be the biggest ahole you want. When you violate the law AND be an
ahole, your guitly of violating that law...not of being an ahole, but again, the real argument I see is now coming out...those who act out feel hurt
because they didn't catch a break like the nicer person or did. By the way, I don't write AH on tickets for those who are upset...its NORMAL to
bitch about getting a ticket..its the over the top childish tantrums that WILL and continue to get you the AH code...but remember, the code doesn't
make you guilty, YOUR violation did.
[edit on 3/3/2010 by rcwj1975]
[edit on 3/3/2010 by rcwj1975]