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Originally posted by SilentBob86
reply to post by Rockstar02
Yes, but having a bad attitude, being rude, mouthy, aggressive, or any other type of "socially unacceptable" behavior is in no way, shape or form ILLEGAL....Thats my point, it dosent matter how rude or aggressive or mouthy they are being, as long as they cooperate and take there ticket without directly assaulting the officer, the cop has no right to pass judgement. A persons attitude does not affect whether they are guilty of a crime or not, and therefore has NO PLACE in the courtroom....
Originally posted by djvexd
I was actually trying to support what you were saying rcjw...lost in internet translation. My point was people who are all up in arms about this I don't understand which they are against more, the subtle coding or the fact thier attitude towards the officer being subject to review by a judge. If you are an ass you you put yourself in a position where something the officer could have overlooked and might have given you a break on, i.e. brake light, not using blinker etc. is far more likely to turn a minimal speeding ticket or even a warning into three citations. Even more so when being arrested.Then that fuels thier fire even more becasue thewy think they cop is just being mean and making things up. I would contend to those , arms akimbo, politely and professionally talking to an officer and relaying your disagreement to him in a calm and same manner is far more productive than other means. LEO's are not robots without emotions, although according to some it may be well advised to build LEO versions of Terminators so they don't have to worry about human nature creeping in. Or maybe Johnny 5, he's a tad bit more likable.
[edit on 3-3-2010 by djvexd]
Originally posted by Grambler
So you admit that your code can influence a judges decision. As you put it, if you put the code "AH" the judge could decide to "not give a break" to the defendant. Hence the argument that you have been making the whole thread, that your code has no bearing on a judges decision, is not true.
What you don't understand is that it it is not your job to "judge" people, it is your job to enforce the law and arrest and cite people, and then let judges determine if they are innocent or guilty.
By introducing extra opinions on behaviors into the case, something that has nothing to do with rather or not a law was broken, you have the potential to influence a judges decision based on more than mere facts, and that is illegitmate.
Your claims that they broke the law anyway are insufficient. As an LEO, you are not a judge, and I know this might be shocking, you can make mistakes. That is why we have a seperate body for judging the crimes.
Look at it this way, I would imagine that of all the people you personally cite and arrest, not all of them have been found guilty (unless your some kind of crazy supercop). But in a crazy Judge Dredd type world were you are a police officer and judge, evryone you arrest you would find guilty. This proves that the courts at least sometimes find your assessment of them being absolutely guilty to be wrong.
Even though you are "100 %" sure that someone commited a violation, they should still have to be found guilty in a court.
So your claims that regardless of the codes you write, "they still broke the law" might not be true, and now your code may persuade a judge from looking at just more than the facts making the case more of a popularity contest than an actual fair hearing.
You also didn't answer the point about judges possibly being corrupt or vindictive. Even though you are a good, honest cop, the judge may not be so honest. He may want to teach someone a lesson just for being rude, and use your code as an excuse to overlook the facts of the case and just say guilty.
Also, I'm not sure how it is in Georgia, but here in PA we have varying amounts of fines you can get for traffic violations. In that case, maybe a judge gives someone a maximum fine of like $250 instead of the normal $100 fine they would normally give because your code showed they were a jerk and deserved it.
Either way, you have claimed all through this thread that you are someone who is only finding people guilty on the basis of the law, and so why take the chance of screwing it up? If we look at it from a positive/negative point of view:
Negatives: has the potential to be used to decide cases based on like or dislike of defendants rather than actual guilt, and even worse as the OP video shows could lead to widespread accusations and mistrust of law enforcement
Positives: you have yet to give any other than it somehow pleases you
As someone who clearly is concerned with the sanctity of the law, it seems as though your only moral choice would be to stop using the codes.
Originally posted by rjmelter
You people can argue the laws all you want.
but I highly recommend you just stop arguing what you do not understand.
PURCHASE a Criminal and Traffic Code book... learn the rules...
and then come back.
This conversation will never please anyone because its like arguing God to Atheists and Agnostics To Chrstians and Muslim Faith to the Jewish faith... your just not going to win
Law is created to be feared... So that you dont create chaos in society.
Its simple really.
Dont break the laws and you dont get fined.
Respect your fellow man and you may have less charges
Laws are Man Made, even officers have to follow them. Im my hometown off duty cops travel at the speed limit, not 5 over or 5 under.
Most of you seem to think that cops truely believe that they are ABOVE the law (some do) but you are mistaken. Power does corrupt and there is nothing you can do to fix that except become a cop and learn the reality of the situation. WHEN EVERYONE HATES YOU, When you dont get paid enough, when the chances of you getting a divorce are 70%, when the chances of your wife cheating on you are 75%... and pretty much you see the worst of the worst day in and day out... I mean I could leave a suitcase with 500000 dollars in it, and I bet 60% of your ethics will go out the window. Then try this again when the economy worsens... i bet 90% of your ethics would then go out the windows.
The law is predictable, and so are criminals. If you create a law, they will try to break it. Thank the criminals for your sense of insecurity's with the law.
Originally posted by richierich
Such logic fails the sound mind...the immoral stand that the police take is sickening. He assumes guilt BEFORE the trial..he is pronouncing all people he targets for arrest GUILTY, so he is in fact judging them...thank God it goes to a trained and real judge, one that has to answer to higher courts..if left to the cops this entire nation would be a police state with them as demi-gods.
Originally posted by Grambler
Challenging bad laws and immoral pratices in law enforcement doesn't hurt it, it helps us make it more fair, effective, and respected, which I believe everone on this thread would be for.