The Missing UFO Evidence Thread.

Star and Flag Karl... great thread, thanks!!!

Even if it's not missing, what can you do about it? Not much.



From the Reagan Diaries

Don Corleone, you once said the day would come when me and Tessio could form our own families. Until today I would never think of such a thing but now I must ask your permission.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by randomname]

Here is another clear example of this time disappearing evidence of a UFO /USO encounter.
This case is so interesting because of the combined radar-sonar contact of a UFO. With perhaps a single exception, it is also the first known sonar-tracking of a USO.
The whole case was already posted here.

reply to post by spacevisitor


RADAR/SONAR CONTACT by WALTER N. WEBB

THE SIGHTING

It was late February (possibly the 28th), 1963, and a contingent of the Royal Navy's North Atlantic Fleet had been participating in exercises off Norway for about three days. Part of this contingent of approximately ten ships included Tim Preston's frigate (a destroyer escort).

Each of the three radarscopes in the room displayed a different height level in the atmosphere. At approximately 0315 hours, Preston recalled, a stationary "bleep" appeared abruptly on the highest-level scope.

The target's vertical height was approximately 35,000 feet, and it was located somewhat west of the zenith (overhead point) at perhaps 70° elevation. The bleep indicated a seemingly hard, solid object giving off a strong reflection; the size of the target on the screen, according to the witness's best recollection, implied an actual diameter or length for the object of between that of a jet fighter and a 707-- in other words, said Preston, roughly 100 to 120 feet across.

SUDDEN APPEARANCE

One of the strange things about this unknown target was the suddenness of its appearance: One moment the screen was empty; the next moment the target was there. If it in fact represented a genuine reflection from a real object at the indicated altitude, the object would have had to have entered the radar field at unbelievable speed, either horizontally or vertically, and then stopped instantly without any deceleration.

JET SCRAMBLE

At this juncture, according to the witness, a call went out for fighter assistance in making an identification intercept. Within minutes, Tom heard the sound of jets through the open door, and he could see the bleeps of two aircraft on the scope racing from the southwest toward the unidentified image. (He believes the aircraft must have been English Electric Lightnings, the RAF's fastest fighters in the early 1960s.)

The observer recalled that when the jets came within about 10 to 15 miles of the unknown, the UFO suddenly performed a steep angular descent at incredible speed, crossing all three radar screens as it descended and passing completely below the radar horizon all within about two or three seconds! The object's path crossed the ship's bow from port to starboard.

SONAR CONTACT

As the target descended, the two sonar operators aimed their pulses in the general direction of the dropping object. Almost immediately in a matter of seconds following loss of radar contact, both sonar operators received audible pings, indicating a strong echo from a fast-moving submerged target at a range of probably 20,000 yards roughly 10 miles.

(Sonar is the underwater counterpart of radar, only the former employs sound waves rather than radio waves. The distance to the submerged object can be found from the time taken for the waves to travel to the object and back to the ship, knowing the velocity of acoustical sound waves through sea water. Tom explained that sonar's usually limited range was extended in this case by means of a classified procedure.)

SUBSEQUENT EVENTS

After Tom witnessed the senior officer enter the UFO observations in the radar log book, their shift ended. Radar room personnel on the early morning watch ate breakfast and then turned in.

Probably sometime between 1200 and 1300, Tom said he was awakened and ordered to report to the ward room, along with the five radar and sonar operators on his shift that morning. There was a little grumbling at having their "sack time" interrupted.

Awaiting the men in the ward room were their senior officer and the commander of the ship. All sat down around a table over coffee.

The senior officer proceeded to go over the events of that morning, asking questions about the radar-sonar observations. He told the six men that their conversations were being taped and explained that until more was known about the unknown target, they were to remain silent about what they had seen. "Gentlemen," the officer said, "we will remember that we have all signed the Official Secrets Act (or words to that effect)." Although there were no threats, the implication was clear that to divulge anything to anyone concerning the tracking of the UFO would be considered a breach of security.

I asked Tom if the meeting might have been part of a general order carried out on other ships in the fleet as well in connection with the UFO incident. He responded that he didn't know if it was or not.

The witness recollected that he was in the ward room about 10 minutes. He said he never heard anything further about the unknown target.

When Preston came on duty once again at 2400 hours, he said he was surprised to discover that a spanking new book had replaced the radar log used the previous morning.

[edit on 4/2/10 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 4/2/10 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Anthony1138
the goverments have a very logical reason of why NOT to make alien life and ufos public information, around 1935 a radio show which stated that aliens were invading, but it was a hoax, like a big joke to them, but thousands of people paniced and freaked out.

I have written extensively on why I think that not only disclosure won't happen any time soon but also why it probably can't happen, but if we're going to put forward some reasons and arguments for or against it, we have to be honest and fair.

The radio show you talk about was the radio broadcast in 1938 of an adaptation of H. G. Wells' novel The War of the Worlds. This episode is frequently used as an example of how many people would likely react to the “disclosure of alien life,” but using this particular radio broadcast to do that isn't really fair. This radio broadcast depicted an alien invasion, not disclosure of an alien intelligence.

There was no preparation—that was in fact the point of it—and immediately people were confronted with descriptions of hostile attacks by alien beings and machines, overwhelming loss of lives on the human side, civilians jumping out of windows and so on. Of course there were some people that panicked—they thought there was an alien invasion going on! But what frequently goes unmentioned is that, despite the horrific descriptions, the majority of people didn't panicked.

So, in my honest opinion, I don't think it's fair to use this as an example of how people would react to the admission of the existence of extraterrestrial intelligent life. Perhaps as an example of people's reactions to an alien invasion, but that's not what we're talking about.

Again, I don't endorse any of the disclosure premises being put forward by the disclosure or exopolitics movements, but I think we should recognize the unfairness in this particular example that frequently gets mentioned.

PS:
Good thread karl!
S&F

[edit on 4-2-2010 by converge]

reply to post by karl 12

The Missing UFO Evidence Thread.

good idea

goverment/miitary involvment and missing evidence is...
a sure sign that it is a real ufo event.







this incident from 1964 looks like a clear cut case of holding back information and radar data...

Pack River River Radar Incident
Patuxent River Naval Air Station, Maryland
December 19, 1964

location map

At 0330 EST, December 19, 1964, Bernard Sujka was on duty in the Patuxent Tower, with two CTOs. Suddenly, two big "targets" - radar blips- were spotted - the largest the CTOs had ever seen on a radar scope. Coming toward the station, ten miles apart, the unknown flying objects were making the incredible speed of 6,000 knots - 7,200 mph. (By error, the speed was reported in the press at 4,800 mph).

Fifteen miles away, the two UFOs turned away. On a second approach they came within 10 miles before swerving. Finally, a single UFO raced toward the base. Eight miles distant, it swirled through a 160-degree turn - a fantastic maneuver at such a high speed.

The radar was checked, found to be working correctly. All three CTOs agreed the UFOs were real solid objects. No malfunction or interference could cause such a large, clear blip. Their elliptical shape indicated the UFOs were oval-shaped, and their speeds proved them far superior to our fastest aircraft. They could not be missiles, only some revolutionary type of machine could make such a violent turn and fly in our dense atmosphere without burning up.

Ignoring these expert opinions, the Air Force publicly blamed the UFO tracking on some faulty radar or poorly trained Navy operators.

Donald E. Keyhoe, Director
National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena
www.nicap.org...
www.nicap.org...

This incident was reported in the press as a single sighting,, a UFO approaching Patuxent at speeds up to 3800 miles per hour. The Air Force a day or so later stated in the press that the blip was caused by faulty radar equipment. Actually, according to Hall, who talked with an unidentified person close to the situation, there were three separate sightings;
(a) Two UFO's about 10 miles apart, southwest of Patuxent, approaching at a high rate of speed, disappeared from the screen;
(b) A single UFO picked up 39 miles southwest of Patuxent, altitude estimated somewhere between three thousand and 25 thousand feet, approaching base at estimated speed of six thousand miles per hour. UFO lost from screen about 10 miles out;
(c) A single UFO eight miles northeast of Patuxent, approaching at high rate of speed, made 160-degree turn, and dropped off the screen.
The Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) station at Salisbury, Maryland, was contacted to determine if any reported UFO's; a radio operator had received a message from a US Coast Guard ship reporting "visual objects sighted" in same locale at approximately the same time of day
www.nicap.org...

Actual CIA document
files.abovetopsecret.com...

I was looking for a thread about the Extra Celestials that someone recently posted. It seems to have disappeared...

I think it's important for anyone that believes these beings are friendly in nature.

The government, technology, ufo, fake rapture, sananda, ashtar command, a female god that wants to be known as celeste, i hope that people here are aware of the deception and will not go into captivity.

sorry if this is not what you meant about missing threads


[nancy burson

Hey, Karl 12, I don't have any missing evidence, but I'd like to thank you for bringing this up. I'm sure a lot of people will have something for this thread. I'm a skeptic, but I did see something once, but all I have for evidence is my word, and that of the person who witnessed the same thing (there were two of us).

So, I have a natural doubt, as a skeptic, but I also know what it's like to know you saw something strange, and have no photos or video to produce. And of course it's understandable for people to want something more than my testimony. I'd be wary of anyone who simply took my word for it.

This lack of hard evidence may be the reason these UFO/alien discussions are so interesting.

reply to post by karl 12


the Gemini 4 UFO case (missing images of UFO)



according to McDivitt , the photo of the Sun glare on the window was not the photo of the ufo.

It was not the picture -- it was a picture of a sun reflection on the window."

he also said the photo of the second stage they showed him was not the picture in question...

"Thank you for sending me the slide of the Gemini-IV photograph. I very quickly identified the object in the photograph as the second stage of the Titan rocket which launched us . . . I am sure that this is not a photograph of the object which I described many times and which many people refer to as the Gemini IV UFO
www.ufologie.net...

The object I saw later was indeed not the upper stage of the Titan II used in Gemini IV. It may have been a lot of other things, but it definitely was not that upper stage."
www.jamesoberg.com...

"There are three visual sightings made by the astronauts while in orbit which, in the judgment of the writer, have not been adequately explained. These are: 1. Gemini 4, astronaut McDivitt. Observation of a cylindrical object with a protuberance. 2. Gemini 4, astronaut McDivitt. Observation of a moving bright light at a higher level than the Gemini spacecraft. 3. Gemini 7, astronaut Borman saw what he described as a ‘bogey’ flying in formation with the spacecraft."
www.ufoevidence.org...

the two known photos that are not the correct one...









according to ufologie.net and other sites, the real photo in question was never released..

NASA captioned the wrong picture as such: "(PAO 65-H-1013) was as follows: This photograph . . . shows the satellite McDivitt observed on the 20th revolution of his four-day space flight."

In conclusion, there is no certainty. The publicized picture is not the correct one, and the correct one will probably never be seen. There are many pros and cons and do not have an opinion one way or another
www.ufologie.net...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by ET_MAN




care to explain how all that relates to the topic of missing evidence ? or are you just copying and pasting the same Stuff into every thread for no good reason ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...




[edit on 5-2-2010 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by karl 12

 

the Gemini 4 UFO case (missing images of UFO)

Hey there Easynow,
Regarding the Jim McDivitt UFO sighting from Gemini IV - let's also remember that astronaut McDivitt states quite clearly in the mission transcript that when he sighted that object, he used TWO different cameras to film it. To quote McDivitt directly from the Gemini IV VTR/air-ground transcript of this incident - "I got a couple pictures [of the object] with the movie camera and one with the Hasselblad..." (MET 29:57:09)

At the 3:40 mark of this video here you can see the actual transcript page from Gemini IV that I am referencing.
www.youtube.com...

Now, I am not a math major or anything, but I am pretty sure that 2+1=3, so that means there should be at least three photographs of this object that were taken by McDivitt. Heck, I would settle for seeing one photo of it at this point!

Cheers gang,
LC

This is a very important UFO sighting at Sea which happened on the aircraft carrier USS John F. Kennedy which was carrying nuclear weapons and whereby the evidence disappeared due the way of making it all classified and demanding from every witness aboard that ship not to discuss about it with anyone without a need to know.

This is exactly what has happened with my grandpa who had together with many other witnesses a Ufo-encounter while they were on convoy at sea during WWII.

It happened while they were on their way to Halifax in Canada.
While it was dark and after a fear storm when they were trying to bring the convoy back together comes by surprise and vertically down a giant disk shaped object from the sky that hovered for some moments above all these ships.

It illuminated the whole area in a very, very bright light and the man on several ships did take pictures and make drawings of it.
After some moments it goes straight up again and disappeared in the dark sky.

When they come in Halifax and want to make a rapport of it they were told/ordered not ever talk about it again.
He did tell it to his wife [my grandma] when he comes back at home and I heard this story from her daughter [my aunt ] who was a witness of that.


The whole case was already posted here.

reply to post by spacevisitor

Here is an interview of Mr. James Kopf, US Navy with Dr. Steven Greer.

Testimony of Mr. James Kopf, US Navy/
National Security Agency
October 2000
Mr. Kopf joined the Navy in 1969 and worked in communications part of the time on the USS JFK which was carrying nuclear weapons. He worked for the NSA from 1980 till 1997. In his testimony he tells how in the summer of 1979 all the electronics and communications on board the USS JFK stopped functioning when a huge glowing orange-yellow UFO hovered above. He personally saw this pulsating UFO, as did a number of others.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4fd7ab5b5df1.jpg[/atsimg]

Art made picture of the incident.

All eight teletype machines were printing randomly and the ship went to battle-station alert for two hours. A radar operator friend of his told him that the radar screens were glowing and then went black - they couldn’t detect anything.

A few days after this incident the Commanding Officer and Executive Officer came on the ship-wide closed circuit TV system and reminded the crew that certain events that take place on board the ship are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone. When the ship finally returned to Norfolk, VA, men in suits arrived to interview various crewmembers.

JK: Mr. James Koph SG: Dr. Steven Greer

JK: …All eight teletypes were just typing complete garbage. Totally incoherent. I had seen one or two mistakes in the messages but never anything this extensive. So I immediately called the facilities control on the intercom to inform them that my broadcast was out and they informed me that they were busy because all communications had just gone out, ship-wide. This had never occurred before.

We had an intercom and a pneumatic tube system that went between the communications room to the signal bridge, which is located at the very top of the island structure of the carrier.

And we heard a very excited voice come on yelling that "God was here. It was the end of the world."

And we looked at each other and thought that that was strange. What was going on there? Another few seconds went by and another voice came on, more controlled. This person said that there was something over the ship. Well, I looked at a friend of mine, a shipmate, and he looked at me and we decided to go have a look…

So we exited the Communications Center and went to the catwalk on the port side of the ship on the edge of the flight deck and we observed a large glowing sphere over the ship. It was hard to decide what size this thing was because there was no perspective. It was late in the evening. The sun had gone down, it was twilight, but it looked huge…

After that, I talked to a few shipmate friends that I had on the ship. One in particular worked in the radar department and he was on watch during the incident. He told me that all the radar screens were glowing- and then nothing. They couldn’t detect anything on radar. We stayed up most of the night talking about it.

We heard that the compasses were not working on the bridge and that the radar navigational system had gone offline…

A few days later the Commanding Officer and the Executive Officer came on the closed circuit television system that we had on board. It was the only way that they could address the crew of 5,000. He [the Commanding Officer] looked at the camera - and I will never forget this - and he said, I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major naval combative vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know. "

And that was all he said…

[edit on 5/2/10 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 5/2/10 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 5/2/10 by spacevisitor]

Thanks Easynow and LunaCognita:
i'll also add the relevant Blue Book microfilm's scans, from:
MISC-PBB1-76
MISC-PBB1-77
MISC-PBB1-78
MISC-PBB1-80
MISC-AFOSR4-501

Another one that comes to mind (pointed out in this thread) by mckyle, is the missing photo taken by Anil Kulkarni, a senior ISRO (Indian Space Research Organisation) scientist:
an article can be found here:
Scientists Describe UFO As Having a "Cylindrical Head With Two Balloon-Type Attachments, a Body, Hands and Two Legs".
Basically, it's not some "officially" missing photo, but all in all there's no way to find it
All we have is this mockup of the actual photo:


Once i've asked to a friend of mine from India, and he replied this way:

This is an old case. I've seen the photographs myself. They beamed it over TV a few years back. It was in the mountains on the Chinese border. Blue and white balloons with a cannister hung below. This was finally identified as a Chinese recon device that had drifted into Indian territory. It did not look like a UFO anyway]

I'd like to take a look by myself though.

Originally posted by internos
Once i've asked to a friend of mine from India, and he replied this way:

This is an old case. I've seen the photographs myself. They beamed it over TV a few years back. It was in the mountains on the Chinese border. Blue and white balloons with a cannister hung below. This was finally identified as a Chinese recon device that had drifted into Indian territory. It did not look like a UFO anyway]

I'd like to take a look by myself though.

Yeah, it's not a far fetched if it's actually a chinese recon device though.

Fine, although I find this thread rather pointless, well, this one is from yourself, internos.

Link

Mod Edit: Removed lengthy post from a different thread and replaced with a direct link.

[edit on 2/5/2010 by maria_stardust]

reply to post by LunaCognita


hello LunaCognita,

thank you for adding these important details..

McDivitt states quite clearly in the mission transcript that when he sighted that object, he used TWO different cameras to film it. To quote McDivitt directly from the Gemini IV VTR/air-ground transcript of this incident - "I got a couple pictures [of the object] with the movie camera and one with the Hasselblad..." (MET 29:57:09)

At the 3:40 mark of this video here you can see the actual transcript page from Gemini IV that I am referencing.
www.youtube.com...

that is a great video !

here we go..


next day comments

Now, I am not a math major or anything, but I am pretty sure that 2+1=3, so that means there should be at least three photographs of this object

hmm.. let me get my calculator and check that math !
yes it seems your correct, the total is 3

I would settle for seeing one photo of it at this point!

i agree and if NASA ever wants to put this to rest they need to provide the correct images in question and not leave us looking at some very questionable black and white newspaper article from the 1960's WTG NASA !









reply to post by internos


thank you internos

excellent find even though the pics are just old newspaper articles.

funny how Air Defense Command changed their story about the Pegasus 2 satellite being 1200 miles away !

But within 24 hours the Air Defense Command publicly reversed the original tracking report. the first fixes, it said, were "imprecise"
www.bluebookarchive.org...

just my opinion but, i don't see any reason to believe these pictures in the article are the correct ones. they don't match the description from McDivitt and we have no way to identify them.



could be images of anything









reply to post by spacevisitor


great cases there spacevisitor , thanks for posting them

no doubt the Military has covered up some major ufo encounters !

[edit on 5-2-2010 by easynow]

reply to post by internos


Awesome post Internos. Excellent BlueBook info about that Gemini IV sighting! Thank you for posting all that up. That Gemini IV incident really is a very compelling case. The actual transcript comments from McDivitt when he was reporting and describing this sighting to MCC Houston are impressive, and the fact that he admits to taking a minimum of three photographs of this UFO using two different camera systems is also important.

Like we were chatting about in above posts, when McDivitt made his initial report of this UFO sighting to Mission Control, he blatantly stated that he used both the 70mm Hasselblad still camera and the 16mm movie camera to photograph it (I guess we have to give McDivitt the benefit of the doubt and assume that the 16mm motion-picture camera had been set to 1 frame-per-second exposure and he was using it as a still camera rather than a motion-picture camera at the time). Keep in mind that McDivitt's assertion that he used two cameras to film this UFO was made to Houston just minutes after the actual sighting and filming took place, so it is not like McDivitt was mistaken and only used one camera or anything. He obviously, admittedly used two cameras during this encounter.

Now (just to throw some more NASA double-speak and contradiction into the mix), in 1978 Jim Oberg wrote an article that was called Astronaut "UFO" Sightings that was published in a magazine called "The Skeptical Inquirer", and in that article, Oberg references this Gemini IV UFO sighting and states that McDivitt apparently has claimed that he "never touched" the movie camera at all during this sighting! This is obviously in direct contradiction to the transcript evidence from the mission where McDivitt is caught admitting that he DID use the movie camera to film it! Why would McDivitt change his tune over a decade after the fact and suddenly deny he used the movie camera at all? Well, by denying that he ever even used the movie camera, NASA then gets to try to claim that that evidence from that camera system never even existed in the first place! Luckily however, the mission transcript tells us the real tale.

In that same article, Oberg also says makes a point to say that the story of this UFO sighting during Gemini IV "has been embellished and distorted in dozens of publications." Yeah, I think that goes without saying! No argument from me there!

online link to the SKEPTICAL INQUIRER article
www.debunker.com...

Cheers gang,
LC

reply to post by LunaCognita

Why would McDivitt change his tune over a decade after the fact and suddenly deny he used the movie camera at all?

maybe McDivitt didn't deny it and Oberg just dreamt that up ?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/204506a7f948.gif[/atsimg]

In that same article, Oberg also says makes a point to say that the story of this UFO sighting during Gemini IV "has been embellished and distorted in dozens of publications." Yeah, I think that goes without saying! No argument from me there!

no argument from me either ROTFL !




are we missing evidence from the famous Apollo 11 UFO incident ?

Buzz Aldrin

"there is something out there that was close enough to be observed,

and what could it be ?"

knowing the Astronauts had many cameras at their fingertips during the flight
are we suppose to believe that they didn't even get one picture of
the UFO that was following them ?




[edit on 5-2-2010 by easynow]