The Missing UFO Evidence Thread.

page: 1
85
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
+41 more 
posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 03:15 AM
link   
As discussed on another thread, it seems there's been quite a number of instances over the years where 'UFO evidence' (ie: reports, photographs, log books, government documents, radar information) has gone conveniently 'missing'.

Of course there could be a perfectly normal explanation for this as I'm sure things get misplaced all the time (especially via military channels) but there does appear to be quite a few examples.

If anyone knows any other instances of 'missing UFO evidence' then please post away (thanks to Internos for encouragement on this one
).



Here's the first case dealing with a missing photograph of a huge, unknown object over Scotland:




The missing Pitlochry UFO Photographs.




Artist Impression:




Witnesses reported seeing a large, diamond-shaped object hanging in the air next to a RAF Harrier above the A9 at Calvine, north of Pitlochry, on August 4.

The UFO is said to have hovered for about 10 minutes before zooming skywards at high speed and disappearing from view.

The apparent close encounter of the Caledonian kind was photographed by members of the public whose images appear to show a blurry, diamond-shaped craft next to a jet.

Fearing the pictures would spark significant media interest, the MoD decided to bring it to the attention of the Government...

"On this occasion, however, the MoD has been provided with six photographic negatives of an alleged UFO... and has been asked for comments almost certainly for inclusion in a forthcoming story."

The memo suggested the media should be told that "no definite conclusion had been reached regarding the large diamond-shaped object".

It has also emerged the MoD went on to commission a series of line drawings of the object the following year, noting that the "sensitivity of the material suggests very special handling".

Former MoD civil servant Nick Pope, who dealt with UFO reports, described the image as the "most impressive" ever shown to his department.

He said: "The MoD has all sorts of equipment and expertise that we used to analyse and enhance imagery to tell whether there were any signs of fakery.

"This picture was assessed by our digital experts, who concluded it was a real photograph showing a solid-structured craft which was estimated as being around 25m in diameter.

"There were no wings and no visible signs of any propulsion system.

"It was exotic and unknown in a way far beyond even the most modern stealth aircraft being trialled at that time."

Pope, who served in the MoD for 21 years until 2006, claims they were unable to come up with any firm answers about the craft and its origins.

"I remember going to a briefing with the defence intelligence staff where the photograph was discussed.

"My opposite number in defence intelligence pointed his finger to the left and said, 'It is not the Americans,' then to the right, saying, 'It is not the Soviets,' and finally, he said, 'That only leaves...' and pointed his finger directly up."

During his time with the ministry, Pope had a blown-up copy of the photograph on his office wall until it was personally taken down by his superior. He recalled: "My head of division removed it and put it in his drawer because he was convinced, wrongly in my opinion, that it showed a top secret prototype craft.

"Somewhere along the line the photo disappeared, but I have no idea whether it was genuinely misplaced or whether it was treated as something we shouldn't have seen and put through a shredder."


Link

Thread
edit on 13-9-2014 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 03:17 AM
link   
reply to post by karl 12
 


Thanks for creating this thread! I personally don't know of any missing evidence or have any but I'm sure people on ATS won't let us down!

Star and Flag for efforts!



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 03:58 AM
link   
reply to post by Wolf 
 


Wolf, thanks for the reply and I'm sure there are many, many more examples out there.

There's an interesting letter below sent by Dr James E. Mcdonald to Major Quintanilla regarding a missing UFO report for the Davis-Montham case where pilots of a B-36 bomber witnessed two shiny, round objects overtake their plane - the Major in charge of the investigation states the report was the 'thickest he ever filed on a UFO' so God knows what happened to that - the letter also makes mention of another incident in which a park ranger got his hat blown off by a UFO!





The Davis-Monthan AFB UFO Incident -1952



The case of the Missing report:


This case is a classic. The late Dr. James McDonald made a valiant attempt in get details from original witnesses after discovering that a major report, submitted to Blue Book by the “UFO Officer” (who was one of the witnesses!) at Davis-Monthan, was missing.

The following letter from Dr. McDonald dated July 14, 1966, was sent to Major Quintanilla, Blue Book head:




Dear Major Quintanilla:

Following our second unsuccessful effort to locate in the Blue Book files any record of the B-36 incident at Davis-Monthan AFB, I have asked Maj. Postalozzi to put down in a letter to me an account of such details as he can still remember with confidence..

He recalls filing a rather thick report on this B-36 case, the thickest he ever filed on a UFO. It included not only his own observations and those of the B-36 crew which he personally interrogated, but also that of an airman who was standing beside him during most of the time of his own observation...

NICAP Link



Letter:








NICAP Link

The Davis-Monthan AFB UFO Incident -1952


Cheers.
edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:09 AM
link   
Testimony about the removal of Naval log books and subsequent orders never to discuss UFO/USO incidents:




Brand New Log Books / Do not Discuss:




Feb 1963 Royal Navy North Atlantic Fleet:

After Tom witnessed the senior officer enter the UFO observations in the radar log book, their shift ended. Radar room personnel on the early morning watch ate breakfast and then turned in. Probably sometime between 1200 and 1300, Tom said he was awakened and ordered to report to the ward room, along with the five radar and sonar operators on his shift that morning.
The senior officer proceeded to go over the events of that morning, asking questions about the radar-sonar observations.He told the six men that their conversations were being taped and explained that until more was known about the unknown target, they were to remain silent about what they had seen. "Gentlemen," the officer said, "we will remember that we have all signed the Official Secrets Act (or words to that effect)." Although there were no threats, the implication was clear that to divulge anything to anyone concerning the tracking of the UFO would be considered a breach of security.
I asked Tom if the meeting might have been part of a general order carried out on other ships in the fleet as well in connection with the UFO incident. He responded that he didn't know if it was or not.
The witness recollected that he was in the ward room about 10 minutes. He said he never heard anything further about the unknown target.
When Preston came on duty once again at 2400 hours, he said he was surprised to discover that a "spanking new book" had replaced the radar log used the previous morning.








----


USS Reeves:

All of a sudden I lost Sonar Contact like it was never there, but CIC still had it at last bearing with an abrupt positive altitude change. The chatter was look at the size of that thing. I went outside through the sonar door on the Port Side and visually saw a large moonlike shape that flew upward over the ship at a 60 degree angle and disappeared into the sky in seconds. I heard no noise from the object when it went over us. I saw a full moon that night on the other side of the ship, but it remained fairly constant give or take a few ship rolls.

When we pulled into port a few weeks later, all records in the Bridge, CIC, and Sonar logs about that time were torn out. Whoever tore them out made one error, the pen imprint on the next page was still there. No one spoke of the incident again








----


USS Reclaimer:

The F-14 went to full afterburner right off the deck, pulling a rooster-tail7 behind it. It rattled the ship severely as it went by. This USO thing pulled easily ahead of the jet, crossed the horizon in seconds while underwater... no visible wake. It just... I mean this thing was FAST. Well, we just stood there. Wow, you know... what do ya say. We speculated about what it was. Guam told us it was a classified matter not to be reported or discussed.








----


Carrier USS Kearsarge:

The cameraman was able to get some photos, not sure how many, before they all took off almost straight up and out of sight.
The cameraman turned the film into to his superior officer and was told to not ever mention it. My dad said he and his friend were asked about the incident by their NCO and also told not to ever talk about it.








----


Sonar operator Account -British Destroyer Warship:

One of Sanderson's sources stated that no less than 13 craft recorded in their logs that their sonars had tracked this object. Allegedly, the unknown target continued to be tracked for four days as it maneuvered down to depths of 27,000 feet! (This must have been in the vicinity of the Atlantic's deepest point -- 28,374 feet below sea level -- in the Puerto Rico Trench.)
If the above story is true, nothing of known earthly origin can travel underwater at such speeds or maneuver at such depths. The fastest nuclear subs can attain 45 knots (52 miles per hour) and dive to around 3,000 feet. The bathyscaphe Trieste, with a specially constructed pressure-resistant hull, descended to a record 35,820 feet in 1960. However, it was incapable of maneuvering about.
It is unfortunate that more than 21 years elapsed before the Preston case reached the attention of a UFO investigator. We have here yet another example of government UFO secrecy at work--this time a foreign nation, Great Britain. Largely due to his apprehension over potential repercussions if he revealed his experience,Tom felt compelled to keep his knowledge of the event to himself. Since it hadn't occurred to him at the time that the radar log notes would be removed,he had only his memory to rely upon during our interviews.








----


USS John F. Kennedy

So we exited the Communications Center and went to the catwalk on the port side of the ship on the edge of the flight deck and we observed a large glowing sphere over the ship. It was hard to decide what size this thing was because there was no perspective. It was late in the evening. The sun had gone down, it was twilight, but it looked huge…

After that, I talked to a few shipmate friends that I had on the ship. One in particular worked in the radar department and he was on watch during the incident. He told me that all the radar screens were glowing- and then nothing. They couldn’t detect anything on radar. We stayed up most of the night talking about it.

We heard that the compasses were not working on the bridge and that the radar navigational system had gone offline…

A few days later the Commanding Officer and the Executive Officer came on the closed circuit television system that we had on board. It was the only way that they could address the crew of 5,000. He [the Commanding Officer] looked at the camera - and I will never forget this - and he said, "I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major naval combative vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know." And that was all he said.








----


USS Edenton

During one of my scans of the night sky, out of know where, four red circular lights appeared. The lights where hundreds of yards apart from each other and formed a square.
After relaying the contact information a second time, the four lights, in a flash, darted towards the horizon amazingly fast. The lower two lights in the square went first, with the top two lights following directly behind them in a curved swooshing motion and there was no sound.
Next, after a half hour had passed since the sighting, the radiation detection system (gamma roentgen meter) on the bridge started making a loud clicking sound. At first, no one seemed to know what was making this sound then a very loud bell went off notifying us as to what was going on, we were being radiated.
The captain stated not to log the instance concerning the radiation exposure and left the bridge. During the rest of my watch duty that night, no officer or enlisted person spoke of what happened, and also acted liked nothing happened.








----


Submarine repair ship 'The Volga' ,October 7, 1977.


"Were such reports made public?"

Azhazha shook his head no. "At the time, naturally, they were classified top secret. Now we have a more open attitude in this country. We are able to talk about such things. On a few rare occasions I did publish some UFO information, but I paid for it under Leonid Brezhnev.The official reaction was very harsh, very negative. My career suffered as a result, and the directorship of a scientific group was taken away from me."








----


Captain of Navy R5D aircraft,February 8,1951:

Crew members and passengers witnessed UFO emerging from the Atlantic ocean:

When we landed at Argentia (Newfoundland), we were met by intelligence officers. The types of questions they asked us were like Henry Ford asking about the Model T.
You got the feeling that they were putting words in your mouth.
It was obvious that there had been many sightings in the same area, and most of the observers did not let the cat out of the bag openly. When we arrived in the United States, we had to make a full report to Navy Intelligence.
.
I found out a few months later that Gander radar did track the object in excess of 1800 mph".








----


USS Waldron,1968-Near Puerto Rico:

They were tracking two bright lights, that didn't answer up to IFF – they weren't enemy, friend, foe or commercial aircraft. And were flying at speeds in excess of 400 knots and making turns at right angles. Nothing we knew of could do this but they did.

We were on an operation called Racer Run near Puerto Rico. Ship officials supposedly logged a report to Washington but we never heard anymore about it.

I've told several people about this and many acted as if I had 3 heads, but I have witnesses and evidence: there were about 20 in the 2 bridge watch sections, the combat watch sections (CIC), the ships log and the report sent to Washington.



USO Research


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:15 AM
link   
Missing Photograph of the object involved in the Portage County Incident:




Missing photograph.






Police Chief Gerald Buchert of Mantua photographed the object from in front of his home.The Air Force told him not to release the photo, but The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the photo showed an object that was like two saucers put together, with a light upper saucer upside down over a dark lower saucer. The picture was only seen by a reporter and Mr. Weitzel, NICAP investigator, who was not convinced, but it was never available for analysis.


Link

*Above BlueBook* - Ohio UFO Chase , Portage County April 17, 1966


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:21 AM
link   
I'm very glad you've created this thread:
as said in the other one, i believe that the results could be very surprinsing:

i'll add some data on the Cecconi's case: the relevant thread is
The “Cecconi Case”: an Italian UFO Cover-up!


I'll limit this report to the part strictly related to the missing evidences:
(and humbly soggest to all those interested to visit the thread).

First, the evidences collected:

- Radar plots
- Pilot's report
- 84 photos taken using a gun camera

Then, the missing evidences:

- Radar plots
- Pilot's report
- 80 photos

The fact that the evidences in question magically disappeared, has been confirmed by Italian MoD in this letter, which had been sent in reply to a request of informations from an italian UFO researcher.


Since the UFO at the time had quickly been dismissed as solar balloon, the italian MoD would have been much interested in releasing all the photos, which supposedly would have confirmed it was a solar balloon, but unfortunately, they've vanished like a puff of smoke.

I have also to say that the Pitlochry UFO Photographs case is even more frustrating than this one: at least in the Cecconi's case some photos were leaked out, while in the Pitlochry's case the evidence got lost, and it was admittedly an impressive evidence related to some admittedly unexplained case.

I hope that more has to come.
In the meantime, thank you for creating this thread



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 07:22 AM
link   
Hi Karl,

Excellent post!!!!! S&F!

Yes, I personally believe there are thousands of pieces of evidence that is not 'available'. I know they're keeping us in the dark just from my own personaly experience.

To date, the biggest evidence that is missing in my personal opinion is the O'Hare incident, wittness by no less that 10 credible pepple and some passenagers. UFO Hunters did a 'snipet' of it, and by that, I seriously think there should have been at LEAST 2 episode to review this case file!!


From UFO Hunters, if I remember right, it didn't hover for 2 mins, it hovered for 8-10+ mins!!!

No doubt you and the rest of us most die hard UFOologist on here know about this. I'm posting it for others to look deeper..

The O'Hare Incident

The other one is the Stephensvill incident which had ALOT more witnesses than perhaps the few at the airport.. normal people, some that never believed in such ridclue are now full believers based on what they saw.

Stephenville Incident

HUGE amounts of publicity and lots of testimonies, but, little evidence from those that have the means to decypher exactally what it was..

I wanted to post these 2 in the light of yours since we need to be tracking these to perhaps presuade the minds that will rationizle it all away.

My last one is of a personal one and so wish I had a tape recorder the night I heard something hovering outside my 2 story bedroom window, 30 years ago.

So yes, even I have missing evidence LOL.. but, if I had some, you can bet I'd be sharing it...not Hiding it!!!




posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 07:30 AM
link   
reply to post by internos
 


Internos! (in my bestest cartoon character narrator voice introducing a super hero) LOL

AWESOME PIC man!! Never saw that one before!!!

intresting to say the least. an Unidentified Hovering Object that large suspended in mid air, which from my rough estimation of how high it was in the sky, about .. 5,000ft-7,000ft.

oh .. but it was just a balloon... that spead off at near light speed .. doh!




posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 03:02 PM
link   
A hat blown off was mentioned but see no reference now.
It can't matter now anyway as the obvious reason is the
direction of the hat.
If blown in the direction of the ship then its ET origin is exposed
and some other statement must be given.
The direction of the hat most likely has been overlooked.
Official records on top secret ships must go to the top Illuminati.
The Tesla ship theory might also stand as the force from above
the craft takes the ship to any desired altitude as stated by the
inventor. That also is ignored with a passion.

ED: The rush of air bent the tree tops.
Did the tree tops bend toward the rising ship.
The ship mass has to be supported somehow.
I can't accuse the lack of observation and record keeping to
ho hum events but the lack of nailing down the unusual is
wanting at times.


[edit on 2/3/2010 by TeslaandLyne]



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 03:49 PM
link   
The 'missing evidence' aspect of UFO reports is one that creates the most cognitive dissonance in me. The implications are baffling.

Some FOIA document packages list photographs that are absent. Others refer to video footage that is missing. Radar paint tapes that are lost. Air Traffic Control recordings that can't be found. A lot of visual evidence is part of the official record and can't be referred to, because we have no idea where it went, who has it or if it was genuinely lost.

What baffles me is that the skeptical public can't draw any conclusions from the evidence available to us. We can only speculate and imagine 'what ifs' and possibilities. I suspect that the authorities are also in the dark and have no idea about what UFOs represent.

If there are photos, ATC recordings and video footage that supports a 'nuts and bolts' UFO/ ET technology...who has them?

If this 'missing evidence' offers definitive proof that some UFOs are not of our time or technology, why is it secret?

Who controls the message and why?

This is only speculation. I'd be no more surprised to discover that 'missing evidence' is part of the mythology and BS of UFOs than if it really exists somewhere. It remains intriguing.



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:06 PM
link   
Great idea karl 12 to start a thread with this subject.
I am curious to see what more kind of examples will be posted then what already is done.

I hope that this video fits in it.
It is an interesting as well pretty disturbing video about a laboratorial inquiry from some part of assumed Roswell debris, it fits in my opinion in a way to disappearing possible UFO information and even much worse the people related to that information.

In the video, you see amongst others DR. Roger Leir, Lt. Col. Jesse Marcel SR deceased, and his son Col. Jesse Marcel JR retired who says very interesting things about that piece of debris, further you see also Dr. Russell Vernon Clark from the University of California at San Diego.

In 2001 DR. Roger Leir, other UFO investigators and those involved in the specimen testing planned a press conference to discuss their findings, but take notice of what has happened with that press conference from 5:50.
It starts at 5:50, but I recommend to see it all.
It is in fact very shocking to hear what has happened with the people involved and all the information.





[edit on 3/2/10 by spacevisitor]



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:18 PM
link   
the goverments have a very logical reason of why NOT to make alien life and ufos public information, around 1935 a radio show which stated that aliens were invading, but it was a hoax, like a big joke to them, but thousands of people paniced and freaked out.

Chances are, the goverment comes out with the information and people will more likely panic since a large amount of human beings are afraid of anything more intellgent and more powerful then they are.

Many of you might accept aliens, but there are just as many (if not more) that wouldnt accept it and be in full blown panic mode and probally go for thier gun as fast as they could.

So slowly releasing the information, and putting the idea out (tv shows movie etc) will slowly get people use to the idea of aliens, and eventaully releasing the data



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:21 PM
link   
Karl12-

Thank you for posting this.

I recently finished Ruppelt's text from the 1950s and am sure he mentioned a few instances where things went missing. I'll have to review it again and see what does and doesn't match up with what has already been presented here.

Checking back,

-Eleph



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 04:45 PM
link   
Thanks for the post. Speaking of missing evidence, while we're looking maybe someone can find Obama's school financial records to see if he got foreign aid.
Also people will always bring up Tesla (and they should) and his plans for this or that, but remember that he was working o this because of a"Natural Phenomonon" known as ball lightning. These "orbs" are what he was trying to reproduce. Thus proving the phenonomon was here well before him. That being the case, all the crafts and blueprints he had were based on things that were here BEFORE he was inspired to try and reproduce them, negating any claims that this stuff is man made.

Tesla's notes are missing evidence as well. If we had them then we could make sure that what we are seeing is not from his technology.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by eazyriderl_l]



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 05:30 PM
link   
The missing UFO evidence will not be shown because its "missing" lol.



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 05:44 PM
link   
Here's a big one - the Aurora, Tx "airship" crash of April, 1897.

www.texasescapes.com...


Aurora is located just off US 287 west of Rhome, about a mile south, on State Highway 114 to Bridgeport. There is a sign beside the highway that says CEMETERY, and points south toward the graveyard. Interestingly enough, the historical marker at the site actually includes the word "spaceship". Newspapers, along with diaries and letters by local residents, reported that an alien craft hit a windmill and was torn to pieces, along with its occupant in April, 1897.




The body was described as a "martian" and was buried in the local cemetery. The headstone was marked by a small rock with a triangle on it. That headstone has since disappeared.

People have tried to get access to the gravesite but have been repeatedly denied. Supposedly a group of UFO hunters with radiation detecting equipment searching for the body thought they had found the grave back in the 80's as they detected a spot with high amounts of radiation. They were told to leave by the local law enforcement and come back later. When the group did return, the radiation they detected earlier was essentially gone - only trace amounts remained.

Pieces of the ship were allegedly thrown into an abandoned well and sealed. The owners of the property have repeatedly denied anyone access to their property. Neighbors, however, have been complaining that their water has been contaminated with radiation and they believe it's coming from that sealed well.

So - missing evidence:

1. The alien body
2. The headstone
3. The pieces of the ship



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 05:44 PM
link   
I read that before, the whole "I had a pic of some weird ship and my boss took it from me and told me it was a prototype for a secret gvt ship", the guy was talking about the mythic Aurora, which is believed to be shaped like a triangle with lights at the bottom



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 06:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by internos
I'm very glad you've created this thread:
as said in the other one, i believe that the results could be very surprinsing:

i'll add some data on the Cecconi's case: the relevant thread is
The “Cecconi Case”: an Italian UFO Cover-up!


I'll limit this report to the part strictly related to the missing evidences:
(and humbly soggest to all those interested to visit the thread).

First, the evidences collected:

- Radar plots
- Pilot's report
- 84 photos taken using a gun camera

Then, the missing evidences:

- Radar plots
- Pilot's report
- 80 photos

The fact that the evidences in question magically disappeared, has been confirmed by Italian MoD in this letter, which had been sent in reply to a request of informations from an italian UFO researcher.


Since the UFO at the time had quickly been dismissed as solar balloon, the italian MoD would have been much interested in releasing all the photos, which supposedly would have confirmed it was a solar balloon, but unfortunately, they've vanished like a puff of smoke.

I have also to say that the Pitlochry UFO Photographs case is even more frustrating than this one: at least in the Cecconi's case some photos were leaked out, while in the Pitlochry's case the evidence got lost, and it was admittedly an impressive evidence related to some admittedly unexplained case.

I hope that more has to come.
In the meantime, thank you for creating this thread


I've never seen this before, it's truly amazing (I guess thats the big reason why they don't show pics of UFO's from other countries because it may be to good of a picture to try to explain away). I believe that this is a UFO, because of two reasons. One, the American and finally the Italian govt. said it was a ballon. And two, why would a fighter pilot spend time going around a balloon in a jet (which he would most certainly be able to tell if it's a ballon) round and around and around taking pictures when a couple of pictures would have sufficed.

The govt. couldn't say it was faked because they knew that Italy had more than 84 photos on this object (and you can bet that the rest are just as good if not better than the one of the cylindrical object being very close), and they could post them or they get out and it would destroy the balloon or solar balloon story. And for the fighter to be so damn interested in this object (I wish we could hear the translated communication going on at the time of contact) taking pictures up close and keeping it within visual says that for a mistake it wasn't, for a hoax it was to much trouble. My dear friends we may be witnessed to a real UFO picture that they don't want people to know or talk about. I wonder why UFO hunters never dived into this one, they finally dived into the O'hare airport UFO (broad daylight) but didn't really dig to deep.



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 07:05 PM
link   
Since this is a new thread and I can expect an answer from you, I have this question: Basically, you say "missing," but in effect you are talking about data of one kind or another going down a black hole of no return. If this is you more general aim, I can offer a story about a great sighting report I did in, I think, 1985, where a large Texas-base UFO investigation outfit simply blew it off. Is that what you want, or just details about missing hardware, trace accounts and images?



posted on Feb, 3 2010 @ 07:16 PM
link   
Great thread indeed,

gets me thinking-- this affair of missing evidence is a type of evidence all by itself, we see a lot of missing evidence discovered on many cases, and these cases all share a common theme -- they are all "very good" quality cases with pretty decent and some very high quality evidences, (photos) etc.. People trying to cover up good cases would naturally want to hide the best stuff.
Cases with real crummy photos, blurry or where the witnesses were just regular people, late night partygoers etc, wouldn't warrant the shoddy evidences collected as needing to "disappear" like these really excellent cases where the missing evidence seems to happen more often with...
This is one aspect of the phenomenon I havn't given much thought to before, until now.
This is a very important angle to discover, and thus, be able to read a lot more between the lines so to speak...

Thanks





new topics

top topics



 
85
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join