Better Off Deadbeat: People Get Into Debt, Learn the Law, Become "Credit Terrorists"

Originally posted by watcher73

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
What kind of world are we living in!!?? People on here are cheering the idea of not paying any more of their debts and saying " to hell with them" to all the people they borrowed from. It should come to no shock that we live in a crumbling society where unemployment is up and the desire to work hard is way down. Everyone expects a golden life to just be handed to them. Not that long ago I got myself in a world of credit card debt. I did my best to pay but eventually it snowballed and I had to file bankruptcy. I felt ashamed by giving these companies my word and then not coming through on my debt. You are the moron who had to borrow and now you are mad at the person who was willing to take a chance on you and lend you money!?????????? Look in a perfect world everything would be free, but in the real world it doesn't work that way. So at the end of the day you have to decide what type of person you are going to be. Are you going to do your best to be a man ( or woman ) of your word, or are you another leech wants it all but isnt willing to work for it? Don't borrow if you cant pay for it!!! Take some responsibility for yourself!! Bailing on your debts just raises costs and interest on the paying people!

The only you havent done is cheer. You still bailed on your debts. Kind of hypocritical to chastise others for doing the same thing you did.

After all the explaining I've done. I should not have to go into more details about why I did what I did. I hated filing a bk, I honestly did. BUT if your wife ( who was in the medical field making lots of money ) was in a car accident, racked up medical bills on life support, then passed away leaving me with a home, 3 young children, credit debt, medical bills, and student loan bills.... So yea I guess I'm just a scum bag who should have known all the above was going to smack me in the face.

Wow, people are so evenly split on financial accountability here! This is a great thread OP. I've learned a bit and will probably use it to my advantage. Thank you!

But what does one do when they find out that Farmer John was actually the person who stole one's cheesecake, and now stands to reap the benefits of your apple debt?!

Farmer John was later quoted as saying "...and I would've got away with it, if it weren't for those meddling ATS'ers!". XD

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Q]

reply to post by jaysconspiracy


I know how finances work and I know how collections work.

Then you also know that debt collectors violate the FDCPA / FCRA and FCBA more often than not. Lenders, whether a bank, credit card company, or whatever are to OBEY THE LAW when collecting debts. If they don't, then people should be able to use the law to put a stop to their illegal debt collection methods.


Unfortunately, most people don't know the law when it comes to what debt collectors can and CAN NOT DO when attempting to collect a debt.
Everyone that has debt collectors harassing them, needs to learn about debt collections laws and sue the crap out of those debt collectors that violate them.

Many years ago I learned how screwed up the credit/loan system was even though I never understood the legalities involved. I simply had a guy representing the bank I had gotten my first credit card through, when a teenager, come to my work demanding I pay up now. I thought naively that I had paid three months in advance with my previous payment to them, only to find it does not work that way.

The guy then produced paperwork to prove what I owed. The sum owing was much more than I had "borrowed", and the details on the form, apart from my name, were all incorrect. I told him to Foff and refused to pay on the grounds that the debt shown to me was not mine.

After that I got phone calls from a collection agent threatening me with violence. So I told him to come on over with his best men and I would be waiting for them on the front steps. They never showed! Good thing too, back then I was a wild man.

Since then I have only ever used CASH. I do this because I know they are forcing us towards a cashless society and I want no part of it. So I go to the bank each wednesday and pull out all of my disability pension to pay my bills.

Even then I get charged fees for using the ATM, I get charged fees for making the withdrawal with their tellers, I get charged fees for having an account with less than $500 in it while those with more than that pay no fees on their account.

The system is an upside-down funnel designed specifically to suck as much money as possible from the bottom to the top at all times.

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Tayesin]

Most people's tendency is to not work, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is it's impossible to do that and own a house at the same time. If you think about it, most of your money get wasted on the house.

How to overcome this? Well, one is to wait for the price of the houses to come down, two is to live with your parents, or three is to reduce spending on everything else. #1 is starting to happen(and if people keep avoiding the $500000+ ones and only buy the most inexpensive ones, then it'll have to be reduced even further, which is what it should have been in the first place, because I see no reasons why they should be so high.) #3 seems very restrictive(and basically sometimes force people to be criminals by pirating stuff, because they can't afford the DVDs), and really, you don't really save that much in the end.

If you don't plan to have kids(even if you do, you can just buy extra beds), #2 is the best option. It may seem "uncool" to live with your parents, but it's a lot better than wasting 2/3rd of your salaries on something that doesn't really affect you in anyway day-to-day. I mean, really, is it smart to work 30 years to pay for something when in just two months, you can use that money to buy a HD television, a 4 GB ram laptop, or in just a year, a brand new car? Even if you can afford all of that, after the mortgage payments, then it's still better to save that money for emergencies, health problems or when you get older. That's much better than to throw it away on the mortgage payments.

reply to post by poet1b


You cannot blame the people who loan you money, no matter how much interest or fee they charge. You had a choice of not borrowing that money, so how could you possibly blame them? It makes no logical sense.

You can blame the government for controlling the housing market and keep the price of houses high. You can blame the government for taxing you. You just can't blame the people who are in fact, stupid for allowing you to borrow something that you don't even have to pay back.

I say to everyone, stop borrowing money. Debt is part of our economical problems. Stop giving to these leaches, and let them die off. This is part of turning our economy around.

I think in the long run, if you manage your money correctly, and buy with real money, you will find you actually have more things you can buy, not less. The trap is being fooled into believing that you can have more things because of good credit. The more you use credit, the less you can actually buy. The bill rises so much that many people end up paying endless credit card bills, and getting very little in return. Some people, like my parents had very little left after the bills, and looking around the place I know they are not living the lifestyle that matched the amount they were paying in bills. They are now faced with a good likelihood of going bankrupt. And, that's fine, because they have payed enough to those weasels.

Troy

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I applaud you a million times over, if no one has read this post, they should, yes it is long but EXACTLY what YOU should KNOW.

Perfect, I can't believe there is someone else here who actually KNOWS the law!!!! If everyone would just wake the hell up we could all be free and get our country back. Great post!!!!

reply to post by The Cloud Taster


Well, you actually DO NOT "claim" any money, but you DO claim the trust ACCOUNT. By claiming the account, you are not sold any longer, or your bond isn't. This stops the national debt from getting bigger. People don't get that.

Read the:

loveforlife.com.au...[/headline ]

And also:

www.the7thfire.com...

Read these two and they should get you going int he right direction.

[edit on 30-1-2010 by daddio]

Originally posted by daddio
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I applaud you a million times over, if no one has read this post, they should, yes it is long but EXACTLY what YOU should KNOW.

Perfect, I can't believe there is someone else here who actually KNOWS the law!!!! If everyone would just wake the hell up we could all be free and get our country back. Great post!!!!

The funny thing is my friend is there are a lot of great threads on ATS that detail many of the laws, both the illegal corporate laws which are nothing but a contract, and common law, and nature’s law.

Skeptics always abound and one of the things that makes people so skeptical is they literally have been trained to believe that honoring every debt which are often either partially or completely attempts at extortion is what a good human being should do, and only a bad human being would not want to honor them.

Yet extortion is extortion and usury is an enslaving practice including those notions of integrity and honor attached to the practice in paying back any debt regardless of its validity or fairness.

The other thing that makes many people skeptical is an inability to accept that the system really is set up to be so skewered and unfair and that it can’t be rivaled or challenged that in essence knowing the law as some very savvy ATS members post it and trying to incorporate it would only get a person in more trouble than just going along with the law as its presented to them.

So in a lot of ways it boils down to a complete lack of faith in oneself and a complete lack of faith in the knowledge a lot of Members on ATS take the time to share.

This all in large part stems from the fact that the system is designed to intimidate people.

If and when you go to apply these things they attorneys the state will abuse their color of authority to try to intimidate you into abandoning that route, first with explanations couched in fancy language with an authoritative tone, while reminding you of their credentials as trained professionals who ‘know’ these things, and then if you know what you are talking about and standing your ground an attempt to intimidate you with possible additional penalties for ‘not understanding’ the system.

They are in fact counting on you being insecure and you rolling over in the fact of their confident approach and authoritative demeanor.

The real trick to turning the tide and getting them to back down and then work within the confines of common law is not just explaining to them the common law in a way that they know you absolutely understand it but doing it yourself in such an authoritative way that you make it clear that you are not about to be insulted, intimidated, bullied talked down to as in fact you yourself are the true authority and not them and that you are a free person and not a slave.

Ultimately when you won’t agree to the contracts which is all statutes are, and you can explain to them how they are unconstitutional and violate common law, and what common law really is, and why you know you have every right to use it as a free person they do have no choice but to themselves back down because not only do they not have a legally enforceable avenue without your agreement but the longer and the more publicly they argue with you about it, the more it jeopardizes their whole system as other people become aware of it through your vocal example.

To me its not a matter of who owes what or who is right and who is wrong, but who actually has the power to decide what is right and wrong, and who should have the power to enforce it and to what end in what circumstances.

Who is free and who is the slave. Who is lead and who is the leader.

Who profits off of it, when were and how, and personally I never appointed anyone to decide these things for me.

The system is grossly unfair it is designed to tax, rob, confuse, intimidate and enslave people through keeping them wholly ignorant and tricking them at every opportunity so that a fool and a money soon go their separate ways and that the state can always find a way to achieve maximum profit off of your existence simply for the benefit of the state, not society and not you.

That really wasn’t what our forefathers intended nor is it the promise of what America is supposed to be and marketed as.

Yet hidden within all those enslaving and robbing and fraudulent laws are the real ones that if you know them and you evoke them and you stand resolute in your application of them will actually provide you the remedy to have what our forefathers intended and the promise of America.

There is just one little catch and that’s you have to the intelligence of and the fortitude of and the bravery of our forefathers when you go to evoke it and apply it.

If you don’t you will submit to them and the unconstitutional corporate laws.

If you do, they will submit to you and the constitutional ones.

It’s that simple and when you totally abdicate your sovereignty to leave it in their hands they will abuse you and rob you and tyrannize you.

When you won’t abdicate any portion of your sovereignty they can’t, and it really is that simple.

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy

Originally posted by watcher73

Originally posted by jaysconspiracy
What kind of world are we living in!!?? People on here are cheering the idea of not paying any more of their debts and saying " to hell with them" to all the people they borrowed from. It should come to no shock that we live in a crumbling society where unemployment is up and the desire to work hard is way down. Everyone expects a golden life to just be handed to them. Not that long ago I got myself in a world of credit card debt. I did my best to pay but eventually it snowballed and I had to file bankruptcy. I felt ashamed by giving these companies my word and then not coming through on my debt. You are the moron who had to borrow and now you are mad at the person who was willing to take a chance on you and lend you money!?????????? Look in a perfect world everything would be free, but in the real world it doesn't work that way. So at the end of the day you have to decide what type of person you are going to be. Are you going to do your best to be a man ( or woman ) of your word, or are you another leech wants it all but isnt willing to work for it? Don't borrow if you cant pay for it!!! Take some responsibility for yourself!! Bailing on your debts just raises costs and interest on the paying people!

The only you havent done is cheer. You still bailed on your debts. Kind of hypocritical to chastise others for doing the same thing you did.

After all the explaining I've done. I should not have to go into more details about why I did what I did. I hated filing a bk, I honestly did. BUT if your wife ( who was in the medical field making lots of money ) was in a car accident, racked up medical bills on life support, then passed away leaving me with a home, 3 young children, credit debt, medical bills, and student loan bills.... So yea I guess I'm just a scum bag who should have known all the above was going to smack me in the face.

friend you are not a scum bag. you acted in good faith and played the game with good intentions. the same cannot be said about the financial institutions you trusted. all of us have been mislead, lied to and scammed for quite sometime. look at the material daddio has linked. it is really simple.

there are more goods and services available then there is money. when you purchase goods and services with credit you have just created cash that the bank did not have. now the bank begins to collect money (energy multiplied by time) from you simply because you used a plastic card. the only agreement you had with them is to use their plastic card. you did not borrow money from them. they had no money to lend. if the credit card company stated they would only charge me 10% on purchases and then raise the rate to 20% for absolutely no reason did they act on good faith?

people should only use cash period. do not purchase something if you do not have the energy for it.

we need to get to a point in our evolution when we realize that everyone has the means to have their basic needs met. the question is what is important to you a 4,000 sqft home, 2 cars and a boat and all of the latest electronics or experiencing all that this reality has to offer including the awesomeness of teaching young souls (like those that you share your life with) how not to become part of a horrible system and what real value is.

the ultimate answer is to become responsible for yourself and to give freely to others. we do not need coins to exchange energy. what we need is intention and care.

the choice is yours.

[edit on 30-1-2010 by Pacal Votan]

reply to post by jaysconspiracy


Hey, I'm cheering for the ones like me that paid off something 11 yrs. ago, but are still getting harrassed. They're trying to trick me into saying it was an expense in the present tense, so "they" can try to collect it AGAIN.

Awesome post!!!!
I wonder if these tactics would work with student loans? That's my problem, bachelors degrees don't seem to do anything these days except, maybe, and if your "lucky"...help you get a job where there is no respect - since employees seem to be disposable these days due to the rough economy..and EVERYONE needs a new job. So, my sob story is that i get these harrassing phone calls every half hour, i'm not making enough money, and my hours got cut at work...Yet I have to pay these a-holes?!! F-That!

People are getting screwed left and right by attending college...All that it does is put the student into debt! Therefore making us all slaves to the system since we "borrowed" money.

Well I agree with the man in the article that its not fair that we have to seriously struggle to make these payments, but our taxes go to all these fat f**'s at AIG and all these banks so they can keep the corporations happy.

Times are a-changing and I am more than ready!!

That's a good read, I have bookmarked it as a good place to start researching UK versions of similar tactics.

I my self have very little debt now a days but I was once pretty badly in debt for my financial and personal situation... Quite a lot of it I did actually wriggle out of in my own way! Knowing what it means for a debt to be statute barred and how to keep it that way is a very good tip (google that one all you brits - Basically after 6 years most debts are statute barred, but if you slip up and acknowledge the debt you re start the clock).

Another one I found out by accident is that the debt collection agencies HATE being recorded! - I accidently hit a couple of keys on my phone right at the beginning of a call, the woman asked was I still there... Thinking on my toes I said I had to start the call recorder I set up on my phone! (at the time I had no way to record calls... Now I do!) She immediately dropped the call, every time I talked to that collection agency I pulled exactly the same trick - 5 or 6 calls later all contact stopped, no more calls or letters... More than 6 years have passed, no debt!

People should learn to live according to their means. I got rid of my bank acct a long time ago. Every time someone buys something for a 100 bucks with an ATM, the banks make around $3.80 . My Goodness, it's no wonder they are taking over the government, people keep feeding them. Learn to use cash and save in silver and gold. People have been conditioned to believe it isn't safe to carry cash. And don't get me started about credit cards. Its an industry the citizen feeds, than complains about them, when they are the ones that made them so big.

I understand needing a mortgage but the rest of the usury cycle of madness, well .. Also I agree with whoever said above that you end up with more when don't use credit to acquire it. If you save and buy, you buy more careful as well. Just say NO to Credit buying!!

[edit on 30-1-2010 by Barkster]

I can understand both sides , I don't have any debt and I'll keep up my side of any financial agreement . Because it is the right thing to do , and also because I want to continue to have the same credit facilities extended . But I can imagine , that circumstances can dictate these kinds of notions . If it's a choice between eating , and paying a debt , you got to eat first . All kinds of notions of what are right and wrong fall by the wayside when you have more pressing survival priorities. Taken to the extreme , humans will go cannibalizing one and another , all kinds of norms , customs , laws and sense of right and wrong go out of the window. So I can never really judge people like this, in his situation. Maybe I'd do the same.

Anyway , don't these original creditors write it off as a tax loss , these bad debts ? Plus they get the money from these collection agencies who buy these bad debts off them . So the original creditor has got monies from the non payment , and only the debt buyer is left with a claim. And since they paid a few cents in the dollar for it , it's not so much you owe them those full funds , but they made a speculative gamble , a risk investment to try and obtain a high profit ratio return on their marginal outlay on the original sum. Where is the moral integrity lost in not helping to fulfil the profit margin forecast on a speculative gamble ?

Originally posted by Now_Then
That's a good read, I have bookmarked it as a good place to start researching UK versions of similar tactics.

I Knowing what it means for a debt to be statute barred and how to keep it that way is a very good tip (google that one all you brits

- Basically after 6 years most debts are statute barred, but if you slip up and acknowledge the debt you re start the clock).

It is easier in the UK with the SOL , that acknowledgement needs to take the form of a written admission that you owe monies on the account , or an actual payment toward . In the US , things are trickier , the law changes from state to state . You can re activate the SOL clock by virtue of saying the wrong thing on the phone . States like Delaware, Maryland , Pennsylvania and others , a verbal admission .. or a debt collector on the phone tricking/enticing someone unaware of the law into saying the wrong thing , and bam, back to the start of the clock ticking.

Originally posted by berrygurrl
Awesome post!!!!
I wonder if these tactics would work with student loans? That's my problem, bachelors degrees don't seem to do anything these days except, maybe, and if your "lucky"...help you get a job where there is no respect - since employees seem to be disposable these days due to the rough economy..and EVERYONE needs a new job. So, my sob story is that i get these harrassing phone calls every half hour, i'm not making enough money, and my hours got cut at work...Yet I have to pay these a-holes?!! F-That!

People are getting screwed left and right by attending college...All that it does is put the student into debt! Therefore making us all slaves to the system since we "borrowed" money.

Well I agree with the man in the article that its not fair that we have to seriously struggle to make these payments, but our taxes go to all these fat f**'s at AIG and all these banks so they can keep the corporations happy.

Times are a-changing and I am more than ready!!

If you are not in default on your loans, you can apply to have income based repayments as your payment plan. IBR is the acronym. If your income is low enough, and you keep submitting the necessary paperwork each year, you could end up never paying a cent. I'm trying to go that route. I owe about $130k, and I'll never find a job that'll pay enough to pay that off. I can't believe how bad my life got messed up. Sometimes I'm so stressed from it that I literally become ill.

I know a lot of us have mentioned living with cash only. Only buy what you have money for. But, don't get fooled into thinking you can't still live your dreams. You may have to save for things, but... Don't get fooled into thinking you will have to drive a beat up clunker the rest of your life. You can have that mansion by the beach if you really want it.

Credit does not necessarily equal having more things. In fact it can become quite the opposite. Credit should not become your way of life.

See, if you look at things in a cash only way, your first house might be less than what you dreamed of, but you fix it up, you sell it and take a profit off of it. And you have some savings to add to all this, then your next house is nicer, closer to what you want. And you work your way up to what you want. And, then again, you might own a business that allows you to save money rapidly for the things you want.

Living without credit does not have to equal a life of poverty. Look at all the debt this damn country has. Do you think this helps us?

I say you should live your life as grand as you want to. Just don't forget to help bring others up with you.

Troy