Madeleine McCann 'Died In Holiday Apartment'

reply to post by blupblup

I haven't seen it (I don't watch much TV and none from the Portuguese channels, and I hadn't the time to watch the one provided on this thread) and I don't know if more were made.

They probably were, considering the rivalry between TV stations, I will have to look for them.

Sigh...we had a 'trial by media' in this country back in 1980 with Lindy Chamberlain. Has the world learnt nothing? She was wrongly convicted because the jury were swayed by what was being said on the street and on TV. People were vicious and had no evidence to support their claims.

She wasn't emotional enough, she didn't do this or that....the media was insane at the time!!!! It destroyed their family and she spent years in jail for a crime she didn't commit. She was later freed after the baby's jumpsuit was found out in the wilderness and since then OTHER small children have been attacked and dragged off by dingoes.

I'm not saying the McCanns aren't guilty what I am saying is that in a modern, civilized society you are innocent until proven guilty. From all the 'non crappy media' reading i have done about this case, there is a lot of evidence gathered to suggest foul play, but there also isn't enough to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt....that is what living in a democrasy is all about...the right to trial etc. I also think the abduction theory is just as plausible too....especially since witnesses say a man running with a small child frim the scene.

And guess what, when I was a kid in the 70s, ALL the kids I knew were left alone at some point in their childhoods. We used to go to bbqs and events all the time with our parents where the kids would be piled off into the spare room when it got late. I even remember sleeping in the car sometimes if we were at a hall or something for an event.

Just don't let this become another trial by media. The vigilante mentality needs to be be quelled. Even Lindy Chamerberlain has offered her own advice to the McCanns because she knows that they are going through. And yes, 1000s children are abducted every year in both bizarre and everyday situations. Sadly, it is not a rare ocurrance anymore

I just think that people need to do their research. Look at all the facts and not make broad sweeping statements until they can actually back up what they say with some quality debate.

reply to post by swinggal


But this is today, they got DNA evidence that has just been brushed under the carpet. I understand where you are coming from though, I have been following this from the beginning and I see little evidence actually supporting the McCann's encounter of what happened that night.

Originally posted by mmiichael
There are predators who steal children and the phenomenon is not hat unusual in the Mediterranean region. A tourist spot is of course an ideal place for this.

Yes, but they are not common in Portugal, the official police list of missing persons has "only" 123 names, most of them old people and only 7 below 12 years old (including a boy that disappeared in Spain and was supposedly seen in Portugal, he was added to the list).

A true tragedy. None of us know what really happened. Gut instinct, impression, speculation, are not answers. We shouldn't deceive ourselves based on the limited information available.

After all they weren't arrested...

Is it the case the McCann's are lying? Yes No..? Simple for You Experts..? Or ATS To Publish it?x

reply to post by ArMaP




OK cheers mate.

I know they banned "The truth of the lie".

And they don't show any negative things about the McCanns here.. in the UK.

Just wondered if it was the same there?

Originally posted by mmiichael
There are predators who steal children and the phenomenon is not hat unusual in the Mediterranean region. A tourist spot is of course an ideal place for this.

Predators snatch from homes and schools and places that are routine. It's not common for predators to snatch randomly when they see an opportunity, instead they make the opportunity and it takes stalking time.
Most murders are committed by someone the victim knows too.
Stats just don't add up for the McCanns. Yes, pretty perfect-looking parents kill.
Ask any LE officer, someone accused will come up with the same story over and over, false claims of "my child was abducted" happens alot.
The McCanns aren't stupid, nor are they the victim. jmho.

reply to post by ArMaP

Armap. While browsing various sites dealing with the McCanns, I saw a Photo of Gerry being handed a bunch of red carnation flowers by a local. Do red carnations have any significance within the Portugese culture. Was someone trying to say something? Or, am I barking up the wrong tree?

No significance to the case. Just curious.

reply to post by Ineptitude

Carnations are often worn on special occasions, especially Mother's Day and weddings. They were known as "Jove's Flower" in ancient Rome as a tribute to one of their beloved gods. In Korea, red and pink Carnations are used for showing their love and gratitude toward their parents on Parents Day (Korea does not separate Mother's Day and Father's Day, but has Parents Day on May 8). Sometimes, you can see parents wear a corsage of Carnation(s) on their left chest on Parents Day. Not only on Parents Day, but also on Teacher's Day (May 15), people express their admiration and gratitude to their teachers with Carnations, as Carnation has the meaning of 'admiration', 'love', and 'gratitude'. It is the national flower of Spain, and the provincial flower of the autonomous community of the Balearic Islands. It is also the symbol of the Portuguese Carnation Revolution.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Carnation Revolution (Portuguese: Revolução dos Cravos), also referred to as the 25 de Abril, was a left-leaning military coup[1] started on 25 April 1974, in Lisbon, Portugal, that effectively changed the Portuguese regime from an authoritarian dictatorship to a democracy after two years of a transitional period known as PREC (Processo Revolucionário Em Curso, or On-Going Revolutionary Process), characterized by social turmoil and power disputes between left- and right-wing political forces.

en.wikipedia.org...

Thats what I just found,doubt theres any relevance though,who knows.

reply to post by Silcone Synapse


Thanks for that. Looks like I'm reading too much into it. I suppose that is the price one pays for frequenting conspiracy orientated websites.

He just looks so nasty and capable of anything. Gives me the creeps.

lets face it - nobody here knows anything about this case

God forbid you ever lose a child - you are all talking rubbish (id use stronger words but the censors would object)

this is the loss of a child we are debating here - a CHILD - i doubt some of the posters are old enough to even know the concept of fathering/mothering let alone being competent to share the gene pool

For gods sake you muppets have some compassion and grow up - to lose a child is nothing you will ever I hope experience

you play in your internet world where words mean little - your basements and tin foil hat reality

you forget there is a world of hurt out there and predators who want to make children their toys

I would hope that your children never fall prey to the monster that took maddie

to add go back to no planer theories and the masons are the nwo - LEAVE THE REAL WORLD TO ADULTS


[edit on 17-1-2010 by Silk]

Originally posted by JJay55

Predators snatch from homes and schools and places that are routine. It's not common for predators to snatch randomly when they see an opportunity, instead they make the opportunity and it takes stalking time.
Most murders are committed by someone the victim knows too.
Stats just don't add up for the McCanns. Yes, pretty perfect-looking parents kill.
Ask any LE officer, someone accused will come up with the same story over and over, false claims of "my child was abducted" happens a lot.
The McCanns aren't stupid, nor are they the victim. jmho.

Don't know what happened with the McCann daughter.

In the late 70s friends of mine were offered half a million to sell their 4 year old angelic blonde daughter to royalty from a certain wealthy Middle East kingdom. The offer came from an ambassador of a European country. If I ever had to I can supply names and addresses.

Not out of the question something like this transpired with the McCan child. Disturbing things go on in the Mediterranean coastal region with alarming regularity. Law enforcement is autonomous, localized and usually corrupt beyond hope. Ask anyone who has lived there.

M

I have read the translation of the book which has caused the libel suit.
In Chapter 6, there is mention of a statement made by a woman who once was part of this group and who went abroad with them. Her account relates to a trip to Majorca -
..it reads as follows-

"After dinner on the third or fourth evening in Majorca, the friends
are all settled on the patio. They are having a drink and chatting
when K.G. witnesses a scene which flabbergasts her and makes her
fear for the safety of her daughter and the other children. She is
sitting between Gerry McCann and David Payne when she hears the
latter ask if she - probably Madeleine - did "that": he then puts a
finger in his mouth and begins sucking it while putting it in and out
- the sexual connotation is obvious - while with the other hand, he
traces small small circles around his nipple in an explicitly
provocative way. While K.G., stupefied, regards Gerry and David, an
uneasy silences settles around the table. Then they all start chatting
again as if nothing happened. K.G. starts to distrust the way David
Payne relates to the little ones. On another occasion, she sees David
Payne making the same gestures while speaking about his own
daughter. At this time, it's the fathers who give the children their
baths, but K.G. no longer lets Payne near her daughter. After the
holiday, K.G. will only meet the Paynes on one occasion, and she
will not speak to them. Over the next two years, relations between
K.G., S.G. and the McCanns becomes distanced; they will only see
each other now at children's birthday parties."

Originally posted by Silk
lets face it - nobody here knows anything about this case

No, we know some things about this case, but we don't know enough, just that.

this is the loss of a child we are debating here - a CHILD - i doubt some of the posters are old enough to even know the concept of fathering/mothering let alone being competent to share the gene pool

Maybe some aren't old enough, but that doesn't mean that they cannot interpret what they read and see, and that's the only thing we can do with the information we have.

For gods sake you muppets have some compassion and grow up - to lose a child is nothing you will ever I hope experience

Compassion for who? (or whom?)

For the parents? Yes, I have, if they are not guilty.

Or for Madeleine? She is undoubtedly the victim in this case. Did she woke up and left the house, loosing herself on the fields around the resort or falling into the sea? Was she kidnapped by some stranger? Was she the victim of an accident? Was she murdered on purpose?

In all of those possibilities Madeleine is the victim, and in all possibilities her parents have some blame (at least because they left their children alone)

you play in your internet world where words mean little - your basements and tin foil hat reality

Yes, words mean little, regardless of the age of those who write them, but they may mean a lot for some people reading them, even if you don't like what you read.

you forget there is a world of hurt out there and predators who want to make children their toys

I would hope that your children never fall prey to the monster that took maddie

Does that mean that you are sure that Maddie was kidnapped?

How can you be sure if "nobody here knows anything about this case"?

to add go back to no planer theories and the masons are the nwo - LEAVE THE REAL WORLD TO ADULTS

And do you think that you are showing a good example of how an adult should behave?

Is that the way to show younger people how they should behave? Treating them as if they were a lower class of people because of something they cannot control?

Now is my time to say "show some compassion" for other people's point of view, the fact that you (apparently) think that Madeleine was kidnapped doesn't mean that her parents are innocent.

reply to post by Silk


Opinions differ in life, why do you feel so strongly about accepting that. Almost to the point you are pushing your beliefs on others. Nobody has been doing this so far, we have merely been exchanging our findings based on what we believe to be a "Suspicious case"

Just about everyone so far who offers your side of the debate has come across in a immature ranting way. If you want to add some information to your side of the debate, I'm here to read it.

reply to post by mmiichael

I would like to point that the Algarve is not in the Mediterranean, Portugal shores are exclusively Atlantic.

Originally posted by swinggal
Just don't let this become another trial by media. The vigilante mentality needs to be be quelled. Even Lindy Chamerberlain has offered her own advice to the McCanns because she knows that they are going through. And yes, 1000s children are abducted every year in both bizarre and everyday situations. Sadly, it is not a rare ocurrance anymore

I just think that people need to do their research. Look at all the facts and not make broad sweeping statements until they can actually back up what they say with some quality debate.

I see where you're coming from, the media is a powerful tool and vigilantism is never right in my opinion.

However all the evidence points to no abduction having taken place in this case. So the possibility that remains is that the parents are reponsible for their childs death and the willing concealment of the body and any responsibility. You can see from this thread that many of us have read a lot about this case and have presented the evidence accordingly. The only reason the Mccann's have not been charged is because no body has been found.

The main thing that stands out about this case when compared with other child abduction cases is the level of involvment from government and other levels of society.

www.timesonline.co.uk...


Richard branson donated a large sum to the Mccann's because he 'knows' they are innocent. Gordon Brown and Ed Milliband intervene with the legal process of a foreign country (spot the difference with the Gary Mackinnon case !). The Mccanns have wealthy 'anonymous' donors that pay for the best anti extradition lawyer available. What really seals the deal for me is that the Mccann's choose not to reopen the portuguese polices' case and choose not to have Scotland yard try to find out what happened to their daughter. No stone unturned, my arse!

People have mentioned the possibility of peadophile rings in this case, it would certainly make sense regarding how the Mccann's have been protected by the British establishment. A similar case (Jersey orphanage murders and child abuse) springs to mind. The officer investigating the case was the subject of a campaign to discredit him and the possibility of the systematic sexual abuse of hundreds of children (and even murder of some) has been successfully swept under the carpet.


[edit on 17-1-2010 by DrHammondStoat]

reply to post by Silk



With all due respect, ther are cases where parents use their children to make money by pretending they have been abducted.

The OP mentioned the case of Shannon Mathews as one example.

There was also the recent case of the kid that supposedly went up in a balloon. Balloon Boy

Both of these turned out to be cynical lies made up by parents to decieve the authorities.

So I think that members of a conspiracy site like ATS have every right to question similar case.