Madeleine McCann 'Died In Holiday Apartment'

reply to post by Silk

I have already made a similar point about libel. However, I might be wrong but I think discussing opinion and speculation is OK so long as you make it clear that's what it is.
But stating something as FACT is very different and we should be careful not to do that.
I don't believe the case is still 'sub judice' by the way. Whatever - I think discussion is OK with the above caveats.
As for the fairness or otherwise of such speculation, I think the circumstances of the case and the attitude of the McCanns afterwards, prejudiced people against them. And this was compounded by them very quickly (it seems to me) bringing in the big guns.
Also, what doesn't help, is the perceived difference between the treatment of people with money and influence and a working class family. We can talk all we like about how people used to leave their kids alone etc etc but it's hardly relevant. We used to send kids up chimneys too.
The fact is - who here can doubt that if this had been a working class couple nipping across the road to the local, they would have been hung out to dry.
Yes a terrible thing to happen to any parent - if we go with the kidnap version. But my compassion is reserved for Madeleine and her siblings who were 'reportedly' left alone each night while the parents went out on their jollies. Whichever way you cut it, it was Madeleine who paid the price.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by unicorn1]

The McCanns know exactly what happened to Maddie.

Just like the Ramseys know (knew in Patsy's case) what happened to JonBenet.

Originally posted by lifecitizen
The McCanns know exactly what happened to Maddie.

Just like the Ramseys know (knew in Patsy's case) what happened to JonBenet.

And Casey Anthony knows exactly what happened to Caylee too.

The 2 posts I have made in this thread have only pointed people to where they can read the evidence accrued by the Portugese detectives.
I have been careful not to express an opinion.
I am aware of the libel laws and how some people misuse them.
An expensive excercise - I can't afford it - they can, thanks to donations

[edit on 18-1-2010 by margaretr]

What I dont understand is how the mccans have managed to lose 1 of their children and no kind of authority, police/social services ect, have brought them to justice. They, as the poor girls parents are responsible for her health and safety. As I read more and more about this tragic case, I get more and more angry. The Mccans should be held accountable for their blaitant neglect, and sent to prison . Who`s making the decisions in this case? It seems so clear that there is a case for neglect, that is just being ignored. It doesn`t make any sence to me... As for the theory that maddie was drugged, I think a hair srand test should be done on the twins to see if any drugs are present. Its logical that if maddie was drugged then so would the twins. I dont even know if the Mccans have been investigated properly, and most of all thoroughly. If not they should be. Im a mother of a 15yr old and even at the age my daughter is now, I would not go to a foriegn country and leave her alone for 1 second...

reply to post by squidley_35


I remember a drugs test being talked about but can't remember if one was done. But in any case I am not sure whether a clear result on the twins would prove anything.
The fact is - Madeleine was the toddler, she was the one who was likely to be active and be a problem. She was the one, if any, to sedate.

Originally posted by margaretr
The 2 posts I have made in this thread have only pointed people to where they can read the evidence accrued by the Portugese detectives.
I have been careful not to express an opinion.
I am aware of the libel laws and how some people misuse them.

I wouldn't worry about libel. This is an open forum with opinions from anonymous contributors - not publishing.

Just went back and am reading through the links. One is quite long.
They seem to point to something the McCann's being responsible for the death of their child and covering up. I'm still not clear what happened to the body if this is the case.

I am prepared to accept that. The politics for the Portuguese is to keep down the level of attention so as not to affect their tourist industry. A tough call and they lose if they push for blaming the McCanns or alternately appear incompetent and negligent.

But the poor child is gone and the damage done. The choice has been made not to pursue an active case against the McCanns due to the weakness of the evidence and the negative public feedback. So if they are guilty, and it's looking like that, they'll just get away with it.

Not the first or the last time justice has been blinded.


M

reply to post by unicorn1


To be found liable for any comments about somone as a person ect, you have to be proved to be wrong. So I find it very unlikely that the Mccans will bring a liable case against anyone, because any information would be examined very closley. Iv`e got a funny feeling that they wouldn`t be happy about that...

reply to post by unicorn1


Yes, I suppose so. but if the twins were to wake up at any point, they would`ve woken maddie, so it would make sence to sedate them all if they were disgusting enough to sedate 1 of them in the 1st place...

reply to post by mmiichael


It comes to something in this socioty when we find a shrug of the shoulders and a never mind, better luck next time attitude is used to describe a missing child. This should not be accepted and taken as the norm just because the perpertators have a few blind sympathy givers. The mccans have been lapping up this media shroud and the truth has somehow been mixed up and lost amongst lies...

[edit on 18-1-2010 by squidley_35]

Originally posted by squidley_35
reply to post by mmiichael

 

It comes to something in this socioty when we find a shrug of the shoulders and a never mind, better luck next time attitude is used to describe a missing child. This should not be accepted and taken as the norm just because the perpertators have a few blind sympathy givers. The mccans have been lapping up this media shroud and the truth has somehow been mixed up and lost amongst lies...

In the Sudan alone tens of thousands of little girls have been mutilated, raped, murdered in the past decade. I don't seen anyone around here looking closely at each case, examining the evidence, speculating on who is responsible, and cries of outrage and indignation.

But because this is about a rich privileged class English child there is sudden concern for justice. Well it doesn't happen for everyone in every situation.

It is out of the control of any of us and authorities can only designate so much time and resources to any case. There is no shortage of unsolved disappearances and suspected murders.

An interesting puzzle, but we shouldn't let our voyeurism for the trials and tribulations of the wealthy upper class British overwhelm us.

reply to post by mmiichael


Bad things happen everywhere. We can't possibly take it all on board. It's human nature to focus on what is more local to you. If someone in the next village is stabbed, I will probably feel it more than if someone in the next county is stabbed. It may be sad but it's natural.
The fact that bad or worse things happen elsewhere shouldn't stop us from discussing the McCann case. Concern for a missing child is only one element. I think one major fascination is that it has all the elements of a 'whodunnit' - with the principal participants still very much in the limelight. It has also raised debate over child care practices. And it raises questions about influence and connections and the judicial process in Portugal and the UK - which is particularly apt for a site like this.


[edit on 18-1-2010 by unicorn1]

reply to post by mmiichael


there are limited resorces, thats why when they`re being dipped into, there should be a thorough investigation. We cant control the laws and rights of other countries and their people, but surley when we can, we should. I also think that the rich middle classes assume they`re above the law, and normal processes dont apply to them. Its got nothing to do with where you are from at all, I think that humanity should spread to everyone. If there were a way to help, then it should be explored...

reply to post by unicorn1


Excellent post

And you're right about the parents remaining in the spotlight

Are they trotted out when 'diversions' are needed by the PTB, one wonders ?

Originally posted by mmiichael
The politics for the Portuguese is to keep down the level of attention so as not to affect their tourist industry.

The Portuguese police always act like that, even in unimportant cases.

And while there was some doubts about the impact on tourism on the media, the reactions some months after showed that people had already forgotten the case and were more worried with their vacations.

Originally posted by ArMaP
The Portuguese police always act like that, even in unimportant cases.

And while there was some doubts about the impact on tourism on the media, the reactions some months after showed that people had already forgotten the case and were more worried with their vacations.

Having seen the inner workings of police forces and governments in a lot of places, my impression is that Portugal is probably one of the better places when expecting something resembling justice.

But there are bad officials and politics everywhere. I think the police force has an idea there is foul play on the part of the McCanns but not enough tangible evidence to press charges. And the fallout of an ugly legal battle would not benefit the country's image.

So a couple of bad people get away with something because it can't be proven. Not the first time or the last time.






[edit on 18-1-2010 by mmiichael]

The McCann case has striking similairities to the Ramsey case.

Both covered up the death of their child, both are wealthy affluent people, both were religious, both had the case bungled by keystone cops at the beginning and both had friends in high places

I dont believe there will ever be justice for either JonBenet or Maddie- both families have managed to get away with a crime.

It is obvious Jerry and Kate is lying, just as it was obvious Patsy and John were- but there's just not enough evidence to convict them of anything- I think both deaths were an accident and the parents chose to cover it up and that in itself is a crime.

I think the only hope is that someone spills the beans, in the McCanns case Kate and in the Ramsey case Burke.

Other than that I cant see any closure happening- I dont know how any of them sleep at night.

Originally posted by lifecitizen
The McCanns know exactly what happened to Maddie.

Just like the Ramseys know (knew in Patsy's case) what happened to JonBenet.

The Ramsey case has nothing to do with this.

The Ramseys were cleared of the matter finally and an apology was issued anyway.

Originally posted by mmiichael
I think the police force has an idea there is foul play on the part of the McCanns but not enough tangible evidence to press charges. And the fallout of an ugly legal battle would not benefit the country's image.

If there aren't enough tangible evidences then they do not press charges.

For too many years we had the police working for a dictator, so things were radically changed when we got the opportunity.

No evidences, no charges, and it's not because of the country's image, it's just they way the system works.

PS: the Portuguese police site, on the section about missing persons, says that a disappearance is not a crime itself, the police can only act against someone if there are evidences of some criminal actions by that/those person/s.