The Trinity is not real, nor is it logical!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by rileyw
BTW I am the Lord God, the Lord is one...does not contradict the Trinity, for the Trinity is
one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

yes, that is why they say the three are one. exactly so that it does not contradict the scripture in Isaiah.

but it still makes no sense. three in one?

reply to post by miriam0566


Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Is there any other than God who could be the first and the last the beginning and the end the alpha and omega.?

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Is there any other than God who could be the first and the last the beginning and the end the alpha and omega.?

problem is that that wasnt jesus speaking. the narrative of chapter 22 constantly changes.

verses 1-5 - john
6-7 - angel (referring to GOD the father)
8 - john
9-11 - angel
12-15 - GOD (the father)
16 - jesus
17 - spirit and bride (heavenly class)
18-19 - jesus
20 - jesus and john

would you like to quote a different scripture?

reply to post by oliveoil

No your wrong, The Bible speaks of the Holy Ghost as a person. and he is also called God. a little FYI.

Please post the scripture in the bible that proves the Holy Ghost is a separate person.
Because I have never read it. You need to back that statement up with solid scriptures.

wrong thread sorry

[edit on 2-1-2010 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by oliveoil
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Is there any other than God who could be the first and the last the beginning and the end the alpha and omega.?

problem is that that wasnt jesus speaking. the narrative of chapter 22 constantly changes.

verses 1-5 - john
6-7 - angel (referring to GOD the father)
8 - john
9-11 - angel
12-15 - GOD (the father)
16 - jesus
17 - spirit and bride (heavenly class)
18-19 - jesus
20 - jesus and john

would you like to quote a different scripture?

I could. however, this one says it all. and your assessment of who is speaking is wrong. Revelation 22:12-16 it is Jesus who is speaking. I suppose that that KJV you have is not red letter version.here Ill post it for you.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

-------------------------------------------------------------

If you happen to look at rev22:20

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

who is coming God of Jesus. this proves you are soooo wrong.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by oliveoil

 

No your wrong, The Bible speaks of the Holy Ghost as a person. and he is also called God. a little FYI.

Please post the scripture in the bible that proves the Holy Ghost is a separate person.
Because I have never read it. You need to back that statement up with solid scriptures.

Why do you always ask me this same question every time we speak then you don't reply when I give you the answer.Here This is one of many showing that the Holy Ghost speaks. This is one attribute that people share

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Cant be more clear than this.. Nice talking to ya BJ

reply to post by oliveoil


Good one, BUT God controls the Holy Spirit so in that context it makes perfect sense. So of coarse the Holy Spirit can tell somebody something. But that scripture in no way shows that it exists as a separate thinking entity. It does not have free will or choice as God totally controls this force.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

maybe the trinity is actually a love triangle?



anyone thought of that?

[edit on 1/2/2010 by queenannie38]

Quite simple really:

Father - mind/soul of God the Eternal... infinite and unseeable
Son - visible "body" of God the Eternal as manifested in the finite creation
Spirit - spirit of God the Eternal... God's "force" in creation

We are made in God's image, and therefore we are also 3-in-1. We have a soul/mind, a body, and a spirit. The soul and spirit are NOT the same thing, as some who are unlearned assume. We ARE spirit, HAVING a soul/mind, and LIVING in a body.

Christianity does NOT believe in 3 Gods, as that would be blasphemous. God is ONE... God is a UNITY who relates to creation by a "wind/force/spirit" and also via a physical body called "the SON." Also, the Hebrew term "son of" does not actually connote anything more than "comes from" or "proceeds from." That is why groups called themselves things like "Sons of Thunder" or "Sons of the Covenant."

Actually, the Tri-unity of God is also alluded to in Isaiah 48:16 (the old testament), and it is also understood by the ultra-orthodox Jews who study the Kabbalah, with the Shema speaking about the three:

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

This is obviously the SON speaking, since he says that the Lord GOD (YHVH) and his Spirit (Holy Spirit) have sent him (to the earth).


[edit on 3-1-2010 by downisreallyup]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by oliveoil

 

Good one, BUT God controls the Holy Spirit so in that context it makes perfect sense. So of coarse the Holy Spirit can tell somebody something. But that scripture in no way shows that it exists as a separate thinking entity. It does not have free will or choice as God totally controls this force.

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 2-1-2010 by Blue_Jay33]

Is this in the same content that God controls Jesus? Or how about the same content that God controls You or me? Okay here's some more
He can be lied to and tested Acts 5:3,9
He is speaking in the Church Acts 10:19
he consoles Acts 9:31
He sends people forth Acts 13:4
He decides Acts 15:28
He warns Acts 20:23
hes prompting Acts21:4
He moves people from one place to another Acts8:39
He is called by his personal names by Jesus. Paraclete,consoler,counselor

He is not Gods impersonal force. He acts independently.
I do have more if you still don't understand.

Originally posted by queenannie38
maybe the trinity is actually a love triangle?

anyone thought of that?

[edit on 1/2/2010 by queenannie38]

Yes, it would be a love triangle. However, probably not in the sense your thinking of.

reply to post by downisreallyup

The soul and spirit are NOT the same thing, as some who are unlearned assume.

Please expand on your theory of what a spirit and what a soul are.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Yes, it would be a love triangle. However, probably not in the sense your thinking of.

but you never know

Originally posted by oliveoil
If you happen to look at rev22:20

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

who is coming God of Jesus. this proves you are soooo wrong.

yes, jesus is coming. however you are leaving out context

[6] And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

here GOD (Jehovah) says that he is coming too to give to each person thier reward. verse 14 holds the key of who is talking.

[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

who's commandments? the original greek renders that "washing thier robes"

rev 7:14 refers to those who survive the tribulation, "washing thier robes" in the blood of the lamb. these are servents of christ as king who put faith in the ransom sacrifice.

verse 14 is talking about jesus in the third person.

it CANT be jesus speaking.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by miriam0566]

[edit on 3-1-2010 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by oliveoil
If you happen to look at rev22:20

Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

who is coming God of Jesus. this proves you are soooo wrong.

yes, jesus is coming. however you are leaving out context

[6] And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

here GOD (Jehovah) says that he is coming too to give to each person thier reward. verse 14 holds the key of who is talking.

[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

who's commandments? the original greek renders that "washing thier robes"

rev 7:14 refers to those who survive the tribulation, "washing thier robes" in the blood of the lamb. these are servents of christ as king who put faith in the ransom sacrifice.

verse 14 is talking about jesus in the third person.

it CANT be jesus speaking.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by miriam0566]


[edit on 3-1-2010 by miriam0566]

look, The only one who is coming quickly is Jesus.
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Then in 13 why is the word I used if he(Jesus is not referring to himself?)
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Your twisting this all around. Do an internet search on red letter versions, and it will say that this is indicated when Jesus speaks.I believe the writers understood a little more than you in regards to this. Nice try though.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Is this in the same content that God controls Jesus? Or how about the same content that God controls You or me? Okay here's some more
He can be lied to and tested Acts 5:3,9
He is speaking in the Church Acts 10:19
he consoles Acts 9:31
He sends people forth Acts 13:4
He decides Acts 15:28
He warns Acts 20:23
hes prompting Acts21:4
He moves people from one place to another Acts8:39
He is called by his personal names by Jesus. Paraclete,consoler,counselor

He is not Gods impersonal force. He acts independently.
I do have more if you still don't understand.

wisdom has children (luke 7:35)
Sin and Death rule as kings (romans 5:14,21)
1 john 5:6-8 NE version with the original rendering of the verse refers to water and blood as being "witnesses"

does this mean that they are alive? they are obviously refered to as people...

but holy spirit...

is compared to with water and fire. (matthew 3:11, mark 1:8)
how can you baptise someone with a person?

is given as an alternative to wine (ephesians 5:18)
why would paul say to fill yourself up with a person?

can fill you the same way as other attributes can such as wisdom, faith, and joy. (acts6:3; 11:24; 13:52)
fill yourself with wisdom and a person?

is lumped together with other qualities (2 corinthians 6:6)
why would a person be mentioned with qualities?

none of these verses make sense if holy spirit is a person!

even when holy spirit "speaks", it is other people speaking like GOD, the word (scriptures), and prophets...
matt 10:19,20; acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; hebrews 2:2

Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by oliveoil
Is this in the same content that God controls Jesus? Or how about the same content that God controls You or me? Okay here's some more
He can be lied to and tested Acts 5:3,9
He is speaking in the Church Acts 10:19
he consoles Acts 9:31
He sends people forth Acts 13:4
He decides Acts 15:28
He warns Acts 20:23
hes prompting Acts21:4
He moves people from one place to another Acts8:39
He is called by his personal names by Jesus. Paraclete,consoler,counselor

He is not Gods impersonal force. He acts independently.
I do have more if you still don't understand.

wisdom has children (luke 7:35)
Sin and Death rule as kings (romans 5:14,21)
1 john 5:6-8 NE version with the original rendering of the verse refers to water and blood as being "witnesses"

does this mean that they are alive? they are obviously refered to as people...

but holy spirit...

is compared to with water and fire. (matthew 3:11, mark 1:8)
how can you baptise someone with a person?

is given as an alternative to wine (ephesians 5:18)
why would paul say to fill yourself up with a person?

can fill you the same way as other attributes can such as wisdom, faith, and joy. (acts6:3; 11:24; 13:52)
fill yourself with wisdom and a person?

is lumped together with other qualities (2 corinthians 6:6)
why would a person be mentioned with qualities?

none of these verses make sense if holy spirit is a person!

even when holy spirit "speaks", it is other people speaking like GOD, the word (scriptures), and prophets...
matt 10:19,20; acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; hebrews 2:2

Oh brother, are we now jumping to a different topic.
If you take a look (cant think what verse it is) at the baptism of Jesus you see all three individuals. what more proof do you need?
I have a question though maybe you can answer? If you are not a JW why do you follow their doctrine?

Originally posted by oliveoil
look, The only one who is coming quickly is Jesus.

verses 6-7 clearly show you are wrong

and verse 14 clearly shows its not jesus talking.

Your twisting this all around. Do an internet search on red letter versions, and it will say that this is indicated when Jesus speaks.I believe the writers understood a little more than you in regards to this. Nice try though.

lol nice try?

can you think of any other scriptures where jesus claims to be god?

john 14:[28] Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

any at all?

rev 3:[14] And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen (jesus), the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

just one scripture where jesus say "i am god"

luke 22:[42] Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

anything that will clear this up

1 cor 11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

1 cor 15:[28] And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

you can clearly see from the CONTEXT which you seem to respect, that jesus is not GOD.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Oh brother, are we now jumping to a different topic.

i believe you are the one who was talking about this.

If you take a look (cant think what verse it is) at the baptism of Jesus you see all three individuals. what more proof do you need?

yes, the final nail in the coffin of the trinity. god watched himself get baptised and as he came out of the water descended upon himself in the form of a dove while staying up in heaven so that he could lie to everyone and call himself his own son.

makes perfect sense

I have a question though maybe you can answer? If you are not a JW why do you follow their doctrine?

because to them, the bible is standard. if it is not supported by the bible, then it is not supported by god.

i respect that.