The Steorn magnetic motor replication by JL Naudin

reply to post by buddhasystem


Hmmm, sarcasm and mockery are the best you can come up with now, PHD?

Originally posted by MajorDisaster
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Hmmm, sarcasm and mockery are the best you can come up with now, PHD?

Since you don't know anything in the realm of science, I can only convey emotions with regards to pathetic ideas like car batteries absorbing some BS "Radiant Energy".

reply to post by buddhasystem

E=n·ΔΦ/ΔT

The back EMF voltages can get pretty high.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by buddhasystem

E=n·ΔΦ/ΔT

The back EMF voltages can get pretty high.

Look, the delta T is of the same scale as the period of rotation of the device. It can't be too small, and the flux ain't big either. We are talking a small magneto here. Have there been reports of sparks or electrocutions in these experiments?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Since you don't know anything in the realm of science,

So explain to us where permanent magnets get their energy from again? The Grand Canyon and rocks?

I can only convey emotions with regards to pathetic ideas like car batteries absorbing some BS "Radiant Energy".

You mean that Radiant Energy that makes that bright green flash of light in the air outside high-voltage generators and stuff?

reply to post by MajorDisaster

Originally posted by MajorDisaster
Redneck, even though RogerT already built one, I think it would be fantastic if you were to give it a try as well!

Especially since you're a member of the ATS staff. I've been wanting to see ATS get involved in the hunt for "free energy" for a long time

You flatter me.

The only problem is that I already have two projects being being built. One is a demonstration prototype on a device where a proof-of-concept prototype already has shown it as feasible, and the other has some serious mathematical evidence behind it. Both concern alternate energy.

I also have given away another project on propulsion via field manipulation to my son to build on his own. And there is a third robotics development project sitting in the wings for me to work on.

These things take a lot of time and a decent amount of finances. When I build a prototype, it is not like you see on YouTube; nothing is hidden, and everything is designed to accomplish that 'wow' factor. My normal building medium is clear polycarbonate so every part can be clearly seen. I also try and incorporate any test equipment into the project itself, so that less external cases with leads are floating around. Right now I am building a dual voltage meter and frequency counter just for the project I am active on.

All that takes money too, and funding is getting pretty dry. So the need to make a living, combined with the cost of materials and equipment keeps me running at low throttle for now. That 50kV power supply I mentioned (0-50kV adjustable, 3mA continuous output, and a digital readout taken straight from the output terminals) is going to take in the neighborhood of $200 in parts and several days to design, etch, and stuff the boards.

I will make you a counter offer, though. If you would like to try it, I will be more than happy to advise you on any aspects you may have trouble with (and that goes for any member here). Just shoot me a u2u with your questions.

TheRedneck

I need to chime in here for a second on the battery topic...

First off the question of why do you need a battery? Well this one is easy... Because a battery is the best way to store power... it always has been. You can drain it... and you can charge it... amazing tech that little battery. Anyone that works with alternative energy, like myself, knows that you have a huge battery bank in your basement for storing your power. Because you don't just plug your fridge into your solar panel, you need to convert the energy to a useable source first. This is no different. In fact they will be able to show the state of the battery and track the state of charge and load very simply. I have a charge controller right now that does the same thing. Of course its much bigger than the one they have. lol This is just a really small setup... it only needs a really small battery and really small charge to keep it going. Imagine one the size of a nuclear reactor.

No one can argue that it doesn't work or it's a hoax because they are using a battery... You can argue it doesn't work when you test their rig and it doesn't work. Every test I have seen in these last 2 weeks by outside sources have stated the exact same phenomenon as they have shown.

And stop using their last run at this as an excuse for this one to fail. Please refer to the Edison comparison!~

reply to post by buddhasystem

I thought we were talking about back EMF due to the shutting off of drive current. That is much faster than a rotational change.

Are you speaking in relation to the SchoolGirl motor?

TheRedneck

reply to post by djcubed


It's been a long time since I soldered a component onto a board. This may be why I am asking this question.

Is a battery actually necessary? Could another storage device be used. In particular I was thinking a good size capacitor. Would an inductor work? Would these interfere with the transformation of the vacuum flux to usable energy.


If either would substitute, a closed box study could be made. Nothing in, nothing out, no chemical electrical production. Wait a week pop open the box and if it's still spinning, voila.

Originally posted by TheRedneck

I will make you a counter offer, though. If you would like to try it, I will be more than happy to advise you on any aspects you may have trouble with (and that goes for any member here). Just shoot me a u2u with your questions.

TheRedneck

The problem with this is, like I mentioned before, I'm just an amateur researcher and I freely admit that I don't have the necessary background and skills to do this.

If we're going to do this for real, it has to be done RIGHT - ATS style!!

That means that IF you build one and test it and you get a COP of around 1.28 (Overunity), like RogerT got when he did it - then the rest of the ATS staff gets involved.

You bring in, say, 3 to 5 experts with qualifications in physics and engineering to check, double-check and triple-check the results - ON CAMERA, so that they can't later weasel out of it and say "No, we're not going to publish these results, we'd be the laughing stock of the scientific community" - as has happened to Bedini whenever he brings in experts to test his systems.

The video footage of these experts testing and verifying the system then gets made into a professional quality production by the staff and posted for the WHOLE WORLD TO SEE.

If you and the rest of the staff agree to this - I will fund the whole thing. I will compensate you and the staff for the parts, time, effort, travel costs for the electrical engineering experts, everything.

How's THAT for a counter-offer?

reply to post by MajorDisaster


Just sit back and relax. In the coming weeks Steorn is going to hold many more demonstrations including people coming in with their own test equipment.

Btw J naudin has updated his website with V2 of the motor which uses 10x less current. I think his next step will be extracting energy from the system.


As far as Steorn having to jump through hoops of fire to stratify EVERYONE. My question is why? They make the concept public and if you feel too lazy to get out of your armchair you can just sit there and never do any substantional thing in your life.

I really like the lack of double standards. Why is Monsanto getting away with no independent research in the effects of GMO's. Isn't your health more important than anything else? Why is it that the water companies are using fluoride without independent research on its effects or completely ignoring them. Isn't this equally important as you are already consuming these things? I can go on and on. Before asking for a circus act from Steorn try to look in your own lives and apply the same questioning of important things or you will be seen as a brainwashed drone or a payed disinfo agent.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by broli]

reply to post by largo



A device that spins in a box for eternity it a useless piece of junk... a device that can charge a power source as well as spin in a box for eternity is priceless. They are trying to prove that they can keep their power source fully charged while using the same source to power their generator. Without the battery you have a useless child's toy. The battery makes it a power source. Do you consider a pinwheel a power source? It's a toy until you add a battery to store the power.

And like I said... they can show you the exact state of that battery from experiment start to stop. That will be the easiest way to prove that their device works. I want to see the report from the charge controller... load vs. charge on just the battery would put an end to all of this. Unless of course we get into them fudging numbers... but that's a whole other can of worms I'm not even touching right now.

As I see it... this is the real deal from what they claim. They are not hiding anything at least from what we know... and it has been duplicated. Really ATS what more do you need right now? I'm paying close attention to this one. I'm sure there is a much better way of producing free energy that TPTB wont be giving us... so for now this looks pretty good. Something you might start seeing pop up on Ebay this year like the HHO generators last year. We will see, but for now I don't understand how someone can shut this down without first testing on their own. Let's leave the testing to the people that test because right now they are saying it works.

Originally posted by djcubed
reply to post by largo

 

A device that spins in a box for eternity it a useless piece of junk...

I totally disagree! It has a lot of potential:

a) as a conversation piece
b) as a vehicle to obtain Nobel Prize in physics
c) as a kids' toy
d) as an adult toy

Possibilities are endless...

reply to post by buddhasystem


I stand corrected...

a) as a conversation piece - Yes
b) as a vehicle to obtain Nobel Prize in physics - Oh Yes
c) as a kids' toy - Mmmmhmmm
d) as an adult toy - Kind of Weird Not Touching This One

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we are shooting for a power source here... nothing else. Isn't everyone tired of paying the Government for everything? This is a chance to really start to get free... And if you think this will change the scientific community forever... Just wait... I have a feeling this is going to be a big year. Even NASA is hyping news, and we all know they are (for the most part) a bunch of tools.

I'm very interested in their followup testing to this.

reply to post by MajorDisaster

If you and the rest of the staff agree to this - I will fund the whole thing. I will compensate you and the staff for the parts, time, effort, travel costs for the electrical engineering experts, everything.

How's THAT for a counter-offer?

That is quite an offer.

The problem is, it is an offer to ATS. I am merely a Forum Moderator (and a rookie one at that). If you want to do such a thing, I would suggest you run it by SO, Springer, or Crakeur.

Another problem is that I am very leery of financial transactions or deals made over the Internet. People change when money becomes involved. For instance, what would happen if you put a couple grand into a prototype and it didn't work? I have done that. The best procedure is to try and understand where the design went wrong and either rework the design to correct the failure or to realize the entire concept is flawed and move on. That's just not something most people can do.

I can build a circuit for someone using proven technology and typically have a prototype working perfectly within a day of completion, with precious little 'risk'. I actually do things like this on occasion for people I know. But when you get into unproven theories, there is no guarantee that you won't end up with a very expensive and strange-looking paperweight. As an example, I already mentioned a project that I am working on that had a successful proof-of-concept test:

I spent a couple of years researching the idea I had. I then started building a prototype to test it. The thing is still setting behind my shop. It is a wooden tripod with several devices attached to it. One device I was unable to successfully fabricate, and while trying to find a way to fabricate it, I realized that there was a much easier way to build the whole thing. So I abandoned that initial prototype. About $250 and three months work down the drain.

The next prototype I spent about two months designing. When the design was finished, I started machining the parts and realized that the material I was using (acrylic) wasn't suitable and that I would have to use polycarbonate. That tripled the cost (at a time when money was extremely tight). So I came up with a different design again. Luckily, the electronics I had assembled were re-usable on the next attempt.

That attempt produced a working prototype. It actually produced what I had expected, but was unable to capture most of the released energy. My assumptions on the speed of operation were off. As with most of the demonstrations we see regularly here, I can easily prove through observation and readings that it worked; but that is not good enough. I have had other engineers examine my results and all of them agree with me on two things: it works, and it doesn't work in a way that anyone except a physics expert could see. I also would up realizing that my power supply was undersized and needed to be adjustable.

Incidentally, the entire test was videotaped from three different cameras, along with an explanation of what I expected to happen. I have the original files here on this computer.

That first power supply cost me close to $100. The apparatus itself was closer to $300 and represented a good six months of work. What I got for that money and time was a better understanding of what is necessary to construct a practical model for demonstration. And a couple of paperweights.

Now I am looking at more practical demonstration prototype that I have much more confidence in. This one is even pricier: the new power supply will take a few weeks to construct and cost $200. The apparatus will cost something along the lines of $1000-$2000 and could take six months or more to build. I am only willing to put that into it because of the last prototype; otherwise I would consider it too risky with my present finances.

In order to do all this, I have a shop that is well-stocked with tools. I have plenty of different saws and shaping apparatus, a complete all-in-one metal lathe/mill/drill press, molding set-ups, and a pretty good selection of steel, aluminum, polycarbonate, acrylic, fiberglass, ABS/PVC, and hardware. My electronics lab I can't really put a price tag on; it has been accumulated over 30 years, and quite a bit of the tools I use were made by hand. It does allow ne to construct circuit boards from scratch, and is fully capable of handling parts sizes down to 0604 and SOIC sizes. Just my library alone contains thousands upon thousands of dollars in books. It represents 40 years of accumulated information.

In other words, this is not something that one can toss a few hundred dollars at and expect world-changing results on a timetable. It is trial and error, expense and failure, blood and sweat, all to make a little progress. I do it because it is what I love. Everyone who knows me considers it a very expensive hobby. I consider it my life's work.

In short, beware of what you offer... this is not what most people expect.

I will make a counter to your counter: you build anything that can be tested, and if it works, I will develop a presentable prototype.

TheRedneck

reply to post by djcubed

The battery makes it a power source.

There are plenty of other ways to demonstrate power production besides charging a battery. Why not replace that battery with some lights? That would be a good demonstration of energy being produced and would not lend itself to speculation that the lights are being used to power the motor.

Any power source raises questions. This is just a part of the demonstration process to obtain funding. Monsanto does not need funding; they can develop their products directly, all in house. If one needs funding, they will have to abide by the rules of demonstration, and the first rule is: everything that can be questioned, will be questioned.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck

Another problem is that I am very leery of financial transactions or deals made over the Internet. People change when money becomes involved. For instance, what would happen if you put a couple grand into a prototype and it didn't work? I have done that. The best procedure is to try and understand where the design went wrong and either rework the design to correct the failure or to realize the entire concept is flawed and move on. That's just not something most people can do.

Let me worry about the money aspect

Besides, you may not even need to build anything. Member RogerT says he already built one, with a COP of 1.28, so maybe he would allow you to test his.

Or, better yet, if the requisite team of volunteer testers can be assembled - why not approach Bedini himself with this? Test out one of his more spectacular systems?

A behind the scenes look at what goes on in the Steorn SKDB (currently in beta). Steorn have allowed user CLaNzeR to post some videos showing what the SKDB were doing in November.... to see a bit more info click on the YouTube links for the individual videos.

Steorn SKDB - Behind the scenes.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by Keeval]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Again... You can't take the battery out of the equation... it is needed because the motor requires power. They are not claiming that the motor doesn't use power... They are claiming that it creates more power than it uses. Even a car shuts down if it has no battery and alternator. Similar concept here. It would take much more work to eliminate the battery and would be quite pointless.

Could they add lights? Sure... but don't you think that the motor spinning is proof enough that power is being used? What type of battery do you think they are using? If it was running the motor for that long it must be some type of new space age battery.

This company was proved wrong once... not proved to be liars that manipulate data. So to state that they are changing out a battery in all 3 motors every night and looping their CCTV while they do it is an unbacked opinion that doesn't really hold up. I think we should try to poke holes elsewhere in the device other than this crazy battery theory... it seems far fetched.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by MajorDisaster

If you and the rest of the staff agree to this - I will fund the whole thing. I will compensate you and the staff for the parts, time, effort, travel costs for the electrical engineering experts, everything.

How's THAT for a counter-offer?

That is quite an offer.

The problem is, it is an offer to ATS. I am merely a Forum Moderator (and a rookie one at that). If you want to do such a thing, I would suggest you run it by SO, Springer, or Crakeur.

Another problem is that I am very leery of financial transactions or deals made over the Internet. People change when money becomes involved. For instance, what would happen if you put a couple grand into a prototype and it didn't work? I have done that. The best procedure is to try and understand where the design went wrong and either rework the design to correct the failure or to realize the entire concept is flawed and move on. That's just not something most people can do.

I can build a circuit for someone using proven technology and typically have a prototype working perfectly within a day of completion, with precious little 'risk'. I actually do things like this on occasion for people I know. But when you get into unproven theories, there is no guarantee that you won't end up with a very expensive and strange-looking paperweight. As an example, I already mentioned a project that I am working on that had a successful proof-of-concept test:

I spent a couple of years researching the idea I had. I then started building a prototype to test it. The thing is still setting behind my shop. It is a wooden tripod with several devices attached to it. One device I was unable to successfully fabricate, and while trying to find a way to fabricate it, I realized that there was a much easier way to build the whole thing. So I abandoned that initial prototype. About $250 and three months work down the drain.

The next prototype I spent about two months designing. When the design was finished, I started machining the parts and realized that the material I was using (acrylic) wasn't suitable and that I would have to use polycarbonate. That tripled the cost (at a time when money was extremely tight). So I came up with a different design again. Luckily, the electronics I had assembled were re-usable on the next attempt.

That attempt produced a working prototype. It actually produced what I had expected, but was unable to capture most of the released energy. My assumptions on the speed of operation were off. As with most of the demonstrations we see regularly here, I can easily prove through observation and readings that it worked; but that is not good enough. I have had other engineers examine my results and all of them agree with me on two things: it works, and it doesn't work in a way that anyone except a physics expert could see. I also would up realizing that my power supply was undersized and needed to be adjustable.

Incidentally, the entire test was videotaped from three different cameras, along with an explanation of what I expected to happen. I have the original files here on this computer.

That first power supply cost me close to $100. The apparatus itself was closer to $300 and represented a good six months of work. What I got for that money and time was a better understanding of what is necessary to construct a practical model for demonstration. And a couple of paperweights.

Now I am looking at more practical demonstration prototype that I have much more confidence in. This one is even pricier: the new power supply will take a few weeks to construct and cost $200. The apparatus will cost something along the lines of $1000-$2000 and could take six months or more to build. I am only willing to put that into it because of the last prototype; otherwise I would consider it too risky with my present finances.

In order to do all this, I have a shop that is well-stocked with tools. I have plenty of different saws and shaping apparatus, a complete all-in-one metal lathe/mill/drill press, molding set-ups, and a pretty good selection of steel, aluminum, polycarbonate, acrylic, fiberglass, ABS/PVC, and hardware. My electronics lab I can't really put a price tag on; it has been accumulated over 30 years, and quite a bit of the tools I use were made by hand. It does allow ne to construct circuit boards from scratch, and is fully capable of handling parts sizes down to 0604 and SOIC sizes. Just my library alone contains thousands upon thousands of dollars in books. It represents 40 years of accumulated information.

In other words, this is not something that one can toss a few hundred dollars at and expect world-changing results on a timetable. It is trial and error, expense and failure, blood and sweat, all to make a little progress. I do it because it is what I love. Everyone who knows me considers it a very expensive hobby. I consider it my life's work.

In short, beware of what you offer... this is not what most people expect.

I will make a counter to your counter: you build anything that can be tested, and if it works, I will develop a presentable prototype.

TheRedneck

I would also be willing to donate my time as a toolmaker.

-Al