The Steorn magnetic motor replication by JL Naudin

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posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by downisreallyup
Redneck, you are assuming that the battery is used in a conventional means, but if you go and study the Bedini motors, you will find out that the batteries are used as a ZPE/Energy converter. In this type of motor, the battery is not there to power anything, it is there to convert the back EMF pulses into usable energy.


They could have done it with a diode and a capacitor. But they didn't. The reason why the battery is indeed to obtain the deceptive result lies in chemistry of a battery -- it is possible to cause a transient effect of voltage being higher than usual (although total energy stored of course does not change).

[edit on 29-12-2009 by buddhasystem]


You try to sound so technical and intelligent, and yet you do the very thing that any true scientist would not do...the very thing I put into my signature below.

You think that the only two alternatives for the use of a battery in such a device is the one you skeptically proposed, but you must realize that to any HONEST, OPEN-MINDED individual, your single option only smacks of bias, which is generally frowned upon by scientifically-minded people. Until you actually work with such a system, and use the meters yourself, you will not know anything for sure.

We really don't need more SPECULATION from biased people. When I started off researching this, I had an open mind. I heard both Bedini and Bearden explain why the battery is used, and how it functions in the mechanism... it is not functioning as you erroneously believe.

Also, any other attempted failures in the past, whether by accident or intentional, have no bearing at all on this case at hand. When it comes to science, there are no trends. There is only success and failure.

Imagine if Edison had used his track-record of over 6000 failures to claim it was impossible to make a light bulb!




posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
if you go and study the Bedini motors, you will find out that the batteries are used as a ZPE/Energy converter.


No they are not


the battery is not there to power anything,


then replace it with a capacitor then...


it is there to convert the back EMF pulses into usable energy. This takes place in the chemicals of the battery.


that is how the battery works, a chemical reaction produces power, which runs the motor.


To really see if this is producing more energy that it consumes, you just need to use reliable meters. They don't lie.


They do actually if used incorrrectly, what about the PF or phase? a better way to see it producing more energy than it uses is simply feed the output back into the input without a battery..... but they wont do that as it does not work!

and the jury has spoken, the jury that was hand picked by Steorm, and the juries result is "The unanimous verdict of the Jury is that Steorn's attempts to demonstrate the claim have not shown the production of energy."

[edit on 29/12/09 by dereks]



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by buddhasystem

Assume that I have a NIB magnet mounted a few feet above the ground. I then push a wheeled container of nails under said magnet and the magnet lifts the nails out of their container. Where did the energy come from to lift those nails?


From the same source as in the following case: you drive up to Grand Canyon and drop a ball there. Obviously energy will be released in the fall. It's ultimately from the Big Bang and establishing local energy minimum. Before you get excited, though, please realize that this is one-off, not cyclical process. Indeed, you can be extracting energy by filling up Grand Canyon with rocks, I give you that. But it's not a motor. You'll run out of rocks sooner or later. That or the Canyon will be filled up



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
You think that the only two alternatives for the use of a battery in such a device is the one you skeptically proposed, but you must realize that to any HONEST, OPEN-MINDED individual, your single option only smacks of bias, which is generally frowned upon by scientifically-minded people.


a) I am indeed biased against voodoo science and ignorance it effectively promulgates
b) I am quite scientifically minded, having been tinkering with electronics since age 10 and eventually graduating with a PhD in physics. Don't tell me what scientifically-minded people frown upon. You wouldn't know.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by downisreallyup
if you go and study the Bedini motors, you will find out that the batteries are used as a ZPE/Energy converter.



Originally posted by dereks
No they are not


Actually, yes, yes they are.

I just watched "Energy from the Vacuum Part 2" again today, and Bedini specifically states that in his 30+ years of experimenting, he hasn't found anything that works better than a battery for capturing and converting the Radiant energy. As downisreallyup said, he specifically cites the chemical reaction in the battery.

Like it or not, the battery IS necessary and IS used to convert Radiant energy to conventional energy. At least, according to Bedini and Bearden.

Now, respond with "No they are not" or "No it's not" again and we'll be forced to smack you silly!





They do actually if used incorrrectly, what about the PF or phase? a better way to see it producing more energy than it uses is simply feed the output back into the input without a battery.....


NO. Because the "output" of Bedini's systems is Radiant energy, not standard current. It's necessary to convert the Radiant into standard current first, and that's the role of the secondary battery. Straight from the mouth of Bedini himself.



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
From the same source as in the following case: you drive up to Grand Canyon and drop a ball there. Obviously energy will be released in the fall. It's ultimately from the Big Bang and establishing local energy minimum. Before you get excited, though, please realize that this is one-off, not cyclical process. Indeed, you can be extracting energy by filling up Grand Canyon with rocks, I give you that. But it's not a motor. You'll run out of rocks sooner or later. That or the Canyon will be filled up



LOL!!

Way to totally dodge having to answer TheRedneck's question!


It's becoming increasingly clear from your refusal to answer these questions that you don't have the slightest clue where magnets get their energy from, PhD in Physics or no PhD.

But that's okay - I don't really understand where magnets get their energy from either. Lots of people don't.

I mean, putting all the heavy-duty scientific jargon and semantics aside, it seems as if permanent magnets just pull energy out of thin air, or the Vacuum or the fabric of spacetime or something - but we all know that couldn't possibly be, right?



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
he hasn't found anything that works better than a battery for capturing and converting the Radiant energy.


how can a battery convert electromagnetic waves into a chemical reaction....


Like it or not, the battery IS necessary


of course it is necessary, how else does he power it!


and IS used to convert Radiant energy to conventional energy.


so explain that chemical reaction using electromagnetic waves then....


NO. Because the "output" of Bedini's systems is Radiant energy, not standard current.


so at what frequency and power is this electromagnetic energy that it produces at?


It's necessary to convert the Radiant into standard current first, and that's the role of the secondary battery. Straight from the mouth of Bedini himself.


Except a battery does not do that.... he should simply use a tuned circuit and diode then!



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by dereks

how can a battery convert electromagnetic waves into a chemical reaction....


I don't know. That would be a good question to ask Bedini and Bearden.





of course it is necessary, how else does he power it!


A secondary battery is necessary on the output side to capture and convert the Radiant energy. B+B talk about this over and over and over again in their videos, so it's pretty clear that you haven't even watched them





so at what frequency and power is this electromagnetic energy that it produces at?


I don't know.



It's necessary to convert the Radiant into standard current first, and that's the role of the secondary battery. Straight from the mouth of Bedini himself.



Except a battery does not do that....


How would you know? Have you tried it?



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by downisreallyup

I am sorry... I did not read all your comments, so I can now see that you are technically competent. Please forgive me for assuming you were not.

Not a problem.


The name throws some people. In one respect, that is why I have used it as a lifelong nick. It's always nice to find out early on how open (or closed) others minds are.



Now, I would highly suggest that you go and see ALL the videos by Bedini, where he discusses at length the reason for the battery.

One thing that was jarred in my memory when I saw the first picture of a SchoolGirl motor was that I had indeed come across this before, and I do remember the same idea has been presented in many different forms.

As stated, however, I would prefer to hold my comments on that particular design until I have re-familiarized myself with it. Some things just have to come first... ECW wrestling was on tonight.



Like he said, it is the high-energy Spikes that occur when the motor is pulsed which are being gathered and sent into the battery, and it is the CHEMICAL (yes, and that precludes other things) action in the battery, between the lead and acid, that allows for the radiant energy in the vacuum to be pulled into the battery, thereby charging it. He tried other types of configurations (besides lead-acid batteries) and found that nothing worked like they did.

Well, far be it from me to state that such a thing is impossible; I am not prepared to prove such. However, I will say this: my forte is in power production/control and I have more than a passing interest in alternative energy productions. Yet, in all those years of experimenting, building prototypes, running tests, and studying alternate theories, never have I come across anything that indicates that a lead-acid battery delivers more energy than it receives.

What could be at play is a 'zapping' of the battery. That term hasn't been (to my knowledge) used much in a couple decades, so let me explain it: Back when NiCad batteries were becoming common, it was discovered that they contained a chemical 'memory' that shortened their useful life. There was a device back then that used short (micro-second) pulses of high current to 'zap' the NiCads, restoring them to their original state (or a reasonable facsimile thereof; nothing is 100%). The quick zap actually re-integrated the chemicals that had solidified out of solution and allowed the Ni-Cads to accept a charge again.

Something similar could be happening to the lead-acid batteries, especially those which had outlived their useful life. I do know that some people claimed back then to be able to 'zap' dead (bridged) cells back to life, although I never personally tried it on lead-acid cells. If that be the case, then the results are a function of re-vitalization of the batteries and not of zero-point energy.

I state this not as a final answer to the phenomenon, but as a possibility only.


This is Bedini's design, and both him and Bearden explain how they believe it works. You will not find that your classical electronics training will explain this to you, any more than Tesla could use classical electronics to explain his dielectric field energy experiments.

Early on in my journey into the fabulous worlds of physics, I realized that there were things which could not yet be explained. I have watched several examples of unexplained phenomena become explained in my lifetime. My 'training' therefore exceeds classical electronic (and physical) theory, although it is firmly based in such. I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities, with an eye tightly fixed on what is actually known.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem

From the same source as...

Please tell me you are not serious!

Exactly how do you equate dropping a rock into the Grand Canyon (energy change from potential to kinetic) to an exactly opposite scenario? IN my description, the nails have lost their potential energy, being contained in the lowest position relative to the gravity source as possible. I add only enough energy to overcome the friction of the wheels, since the container neither moves up or down. Yet the magnet draws the nails upward, increasing their potential energy with respect to the gravitational field. Where does that increase in potential energy come from?

To my thinking, the only possible answer is the magnet. I just don't understand (yet) how the magnet can impart so much energy.


Before you get excited, though, please realize that this is one-off, not cyclical process.

I believe I already alluded to that problem earlier in this thread. We have the ability to strictly control the path of electricity and to interrupt it at will and in an analog fashion. We can therefore harness electricity easily to perform work. Magnetism and gravity are different. We have the ability to shunt magnetic flux using ferrous materials or to create flux using electromagnets, but the ferrous materials spontaneously magnetize, requiring mechanical energy to manipulate, and electromagnets use electrical energy. We cannot even begin to have a way to manipulate gravitational fields.

The trick to utilizing such forces will be to find a way to manipulate them as we can electricity.

TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 29 2009 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem

My apologies, I missed one...


I've dealt with capacitors of various designs, rated up to 50kV. I think you are greatly exaggerating the requirements for a capacitor needed to store energy ostensibly produced in a small device like the demos discussed here. Seriously. If you quoted thousands of dollars, please explain how you came up with that number.

It was some years back that I was trying to figure out a way to capture lightning and store it (yeah, I know, not possible with today's technology but I gave it a shot). I checked on a 50kV 5000 uF capacitor, which required a special order. The cost for a single capacitor was about $2500 if I remember correctly, dropping down to $1300 each if I ordered in quantities of over 100.

I gave up after that. I didn't dare ask about the first two stages of the network. Impractical.


You can get caps up to 50kV as long as they are of no more than a small fraction of a uF. The mathematics of a capacitor, however, make higher values very difficult to create. To increase the voltage, one must use a thicker dielectric. To increase capacitance, one must use either a much larger surface area or a thinner dielectric. Thus, you can get 50kV 0.01uF caps, or you can get 5V 5F capacitors. You cannot get a 50kV 5F capacitor.

Incidentally, I just recently finished a 50kV 1mA power supply, and am working on a larger, more extravagant one. If you need any tips, let me know.


TheRedneck



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 03:15 AM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster

Originally posted by dereks

how can a battery convert electromagnetic waves into a chemical reaction....


I don't know. That would be a good question to ask Bedini and Bearden.



Actually this is where the rubber meets the road. Thought I should point it out before everyone looses sight of it.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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On the subject of adequately rated capacitors, transmission systems use massive capacitor banks for voltage correction but they're seriously expensive. You can get whatever size and rating you need with a series/parallel arrangement.

The ones I'm thinking of are rated to produce around 100MVAr or more on a 220kV 3 phase busbar which only amounts to a handful of uFarads.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by TheRedneck
One thing that was jarred in my memory when I saw the first picture of a SchoolGirl motor was that I had indeed come across this before, and I do remember the same idea has been presented in many different forms.

As stated, however, I would prefer to hold my comments on that particular design until I have re-familiarized myself with it.


Redneck, even though RogerT already built one, I think it would be fantastic if you were to give it a try as well!


Especially since you're a member of the ATS staff. I've been wanting to see ATS get involved in the hunt for "free energy" for a long time



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Matyas

Originally posted by MajorDisaster

Originally posted by dereks

how can a battery convert electromagnetic waves into a chemical reaction....


I don't know. That would be a good question to ask Bedini and Bearden.



Actually this is where the rubber meets the road. Thought I should point it out before everyone looses sight of it.


I wish that people, YES I'm talking to you Dereks (though I have you on ignore, so I will not see your reply) should just go and watch the newest Bedini videos. They will address all these things, such as how is the battery used as a ZPE/Current converter. From what I can tell, the process actually puts the battery into an opposite state, where it gains a greater ability to hold a longer and more powerful charge, and it actually will charge increasingly faster each time it is charged.

Mind you that the mechanism appears to be closed, with two batteries that are swapped between charging/discharging, and this process can continue indefinitely. Bedini had one of his devices running for 3 years non-stop. The system is NOT closed however, since it is drawing energy from the cosmic vacuum via the battery that is being charged. Remember, these batteries are never plugged into a conventional power source. It is only one battery charging another battery, and then the roles are swapped. This swapping of roles can happen indefinitely.

Bedini has no reason to spend all his time and money developing something that doesn't work. If it doesn't work, it won't be sellable... simple as that. And you can easily tell by watching the videos that Bedini and Bearden are both highly committed to this task of solving this problem of capturing ZPE.

Anyhow, if you really are interested in how these things work, and why the battery is a central component that is NOT USED IN THE CONVENTIONAL MANNER, than please do yourself a favor and watch the videos.

Here is the first part of the 13 part video. Below I have added a link you can click to bring up all 13 parts:



Bedini Energy from the Vacuum Series


[edit on 30-12-2009 by downisreallyup]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:45 AM
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I didn't know trolls get phd's too.

The closed mindless of people is unprecedented on this "deny ignorance" forum. Do you know how many people have come with alternative experiments linked to new theories in many fields but especially physics for explaining old concepts and unexplained concept that seems to defy everything we have seen so far? The count is too high. But where are they?

Mainstream science is a bit like TV. Everyone likes to follow that popular news channel or series, but no one gives a damn about that informative channel that only comes on late at night.

Stop pretending you know everything, it's insulting to the whole of mankind. The more knowledge you gain the more you realize how little you know. True scientists know this, but yet again true scientists don't get million dollar grants and pretend to be doing ground breaking science.

Also don't underestimate human corruption and greed. The decision of one man on this planet can affect it for an entire century or more negatively. If you don't believe me research Tesla's life and work DEEPLY. Not just the "yeah we know he was a genius and he discovered many things" part. Read what he discovered about the different form of electricity he saw, read how he was so very against the use of hertzian radio waves and atomic fission. Did you know that Tesla was potentially murdered? Or is that too much for your small mind to handle.

All I ask from people is to have an open mind. Be creative and nature will amaze you, most of this world is ran on greed, corruption and deception, don't fall in the same pit.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by broli]



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Matyas
Actually this is where the rubber meets the road. Thought I should point it out before everyone looses sight of it.


What do you mean by that?

I don't know or understand everything about this, I freely admit that. I can only tell you what I know from researching B+B.

They say that the Radiant or Negative energy is a new and different form of energy, the opposite of conventional current in many ways. It runs cool instead of hot, you can measure it in volts but not amps, it has a lot of strange properties.

As for how or why a lead-acid battery could transform this "negative" energy into "positive" energy, I have absolutely no idea. I suspect that B+B don't fully understand it either, they just know that it works from years of experimentation.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Look, I quoted 50 kV just as an example. Obviously, whatever voltages are present in the circuitry of the bogus perpetual motion device, they are hardly in that range



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by broli
Stop pretending you know everything, it's insulting to the whole of mankind.


Where did I pretend to know everything? Also, I didn't know I was capable of grand acts like "insulting the whole of mankind". Lay off coffee, pal.



posted on Dec, 30 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by MajorDisaster
Like it or not, the battery IS necessary and IS used to convert Radiant energy to conventional energy. At least, according to Bedini and Bearden.


Definitely! And putting a clove of garlic above the door works best to fend off vampires and evil spirits.


NO. Because the "output" of Bedini's systems is Radiant energy, not standard current.


Right, batteries are storing Radiant Energy, or Mana, or ju-ju or other such stuff, quite well.





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